Rant Thread

Perun

Dominus et deus
Staff member
I remember how an art teacher once called me out on my bullshit. We were supposed to make sculptures of our own design. I just made some random triangular shape because I hated the class and I disliked the teacher. I actually liked art, I just didn't like how it was taught. He asked me what the thing I made was supposed to be and I told him it's art, don't question it. He told me that any artwork needs a set of rules to go by, even if I made up the rules myself, even if the rule was one of no rules and that I can't just declare something as art like that. It doesn't need to represent or say something concrete, but it needs to be something, even and especially if it means to be nothing.

It ended up being a set of interacting triangular shapes with golden spray paint, which is ironic because trigonometry was my biggest nemesis in maths that year.
 

Perun

Dominus et deus
Staff member
And at another time, I will tell you why I think what he taught me was both absolutely correct and dead wrong depending on how you look at it.
 

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
If you can't paint/draw a portrait so the person is recognizeable, if you know nothing about perspective, if you lack the basic knowledge of human anatomy, if you don't know how lights and shades work, if you know jackshit about texture, if you never painted/drawn an animal or a tree or a plant or a human being... get the fuck out of here
Pablo Picasso has exited the chat.

Yeah, well there's also the "tHeRe iS NO rIgHT WaY to do it, it's art, I don't need to learn the basics, there is no objectively correct way, I don't need to practice, I have a VISION and that's valued more by the society today"... and sadly, at least in the latter part of the sentence, they are right.
I wholeheartedly disagree with the concept that a "vision" is more valued by society today. Sure, you have the right to make art that doesn't mean anything to other people, but you're hardly going to find a patron for it. There might be controversial art, and there might be art that is very, very weird, but as long as some people are getting stuff out of it, mission accomplished.

The great artists of the day are operating on more than vision, as are the mediocre artists. The poor artists, the ones you never hear of, they're the ones who are working on vision. Now, you'll get people who claim the all-importance of their vision (*cough* Zack Snyder *cough*) but they actually have fans and people who are interested in what they do, regardless of quality.

I dunno, people don't just show up to art galleries with pieces and get in unless there's something more there. Art isn't a catch-all to success, hardly. Only the peak of the iceberg ever gets noticed.
 

JudasMyGuide

A Moravian fox
I remember how an art teacher once called me out on my bullshit. We were supposed to make sculptures of our own design. I just made some random triangular shape because I hated the class and I disliked the teacher. I actually liked art, I just didn't like how it was taught. He asked me what the thing I made was supposed to be and I told him it's art, don't question it. He told me that any artwork needs a set of rules to go by, even if I made up the rules myself, even if the rule was one of no rules and that I can't just declare something as art like that. It doesn't need to represent or say something concrete, but it needs to be something, even and especially if it means to be nothing.

It ended up being a set of interacting triangular shapes with golden spray paint, which is ironic because trigonometry was my biggest nemesis in maths that year.

Well, first of all, yes, you could say that "art" is a really pretty much anything that we do that is somewhat redundant and differentiates us from animals (McCloud's definition), but let's talk about "art art"

And I don't even agree that art must always "say" something - it can be a study of the form, it can be a rumination that doesn't say anything in particular, it can be an experiment, it can be merely aesthetically pleasing... but 1.) you should know why you're doing it 2.) it's better if it's not one of your first things.

If Kupka draws a single line on a painting, its lauded. Because of context, because of his history and because he had proven he can do other stuff. Because he's experimenting with emptiness, with colour etc.

If a nobody draws a single line on a painting, its just silly.

Pablo Picasso has exited the chat.

Pablo Picasso knew all of the things I mentioned and then moved on to something new. That's why he was one of the greats. He didn't do the stuff he did because he was too lazy to do 20 studies of a single thing to proceed.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the concept that a "vision" is more valued by society today. Sure, you have the right to make art that doesn't mean anything to other people, but you're hardly going to find a patron for it. There might be controversial art, and there might be art that is very, very weird, but as long as some people are getting stuff out of it, mission accomplished.

The great artists of the day are operating on more than vision, as are the mediocre artists. The poor artists, the ones you never hear of, they're the ones who are working on vision. Now, you'll get people who claim the all-importance of their vision (*cough* Zack Snyder *cough*) but they actually have fans and people who are interested in what they do, regardless of quality.

I dunno, people don't just show up to art galleries with pieces and get in unless there's something more there. Art isn't a catch-all to success, hardly. Only the peak of the iceberg ever gets noticed.

I was talking more about the indie - internet circles, where "wow, you draw" and suddenly you see an exhibition in a coffehouse that's butt-ugly and looks like the person just left kindergarten. By someone who you personally know does this for a little time and never actually bothered to learn the rules. But it's edgy and has vision. And yes, the praise of shit on the net.

Sorry, probably should have expressed myself clearer. Well, rant thread.
 

JudasMyGuide

A Moravian fox
My general point (and the same actually goes with every art, even cooking) - learn the friggin' rules and why they were invented in the first place before you start breaking them.

That way you learn something not just about the history of the art, the form and the method, but even about the thing you're (re)creating.
 

Diesel 11

As you scream into the web of silence...
Seconded, but for lyricism. I can call my works shitty every day of the week but as soon as someone else does I’m like, “You motherfucker...”
Also when I say this I’m pointing out the natural hypocrisy that I think a lot of ‘creators’ have. You write something, you draw something, you film something — you’re investing a bit of your soul into it and it stings when someone goes “eh” because you’ve gotten excited about what you’ve made. I know for myself I am both really proud of what I manage to write but also highly critical of it at the same time. I like getting constructive criticism on board even when it makes me feel bad in the moment because it pushes me to do better. My only point here is further pointing out how personal art can get and how sometimes artists get hypocritical about hating and loving what they do at the same time. I know personally that if I never evolved past that Accident of Birth conceptual idea I wouldn’t be as proud of my current ability to write, and still have a ways to go. Or something I drifted off three times while writing this.
 

Jer

Enjoy the silence
If Kupka draws a single line on a painting, its lauded. Because of context, because of his history and because he had proven he can do other stuff. Because he's experimenting with emptiness, with colour etc.
Oh man, suddenly St. Anger and Lulu kick ass now, because Metallica’s 80s stuff was great!
 

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
My general point (and the same actually goes with every art, even cooking) - learn the friggin' rules and why they were invented in the first place before you start breaking them.

That way you learn something not just about the history of the art, the form and the method, but even about the thing you're (re)creating.
Yes, that's correct.
 

Perun

Dominus et deus
Staff member
My general point (and the same actually goes with every art, even cooking) - learn the friggin' rules and why they were invented in the first place before you start breaking them.

That way you learn something not just about the history of the art, the form and the method, but even about the thing you're (re)creating.

Yes, I agree with this.
 

Lamia020281

Educated Fool
I'm probably the least artistic person here, but I think that if you have decided to share your art (or "art") with others, you should also be prepared for negative comments and critique. Otherwise, keep it to yourself.
For most things, I think negative opinions should be allowed to be expressed. However, artworks are a bit tricky. I don't want to hear any criticism towards mine, but sometimes I'd like to get neutral or positive feedback. That's why I only try to share mine with people and situations where I know no negative feedback will be given.
 

Lamia020281

Educated Fool
My general point (and the same actually goes with every art, even cooking) - learn the friggin' rules and why they were invented in the first place before you start breaking them.

That way you learn something not just about the history of the art, the form and the method, but even about the thing you're (re)creating.
I don't entirely agree with you. I find that doing art based on a strong inner vision can be a positive thing. I didn't go to art school, like I mentioned, and I've never made art for living, but I consider myself an artist. I haven't learned to draw technically well, because I think my "natural" style depicts the spirit of my works better. If the concept and end result works, and generates the desired feelings, I think no former studies or technical practise is necessary. If the end result is bad, then it might be a different matter. :)
 

Diesel 11

As you scream into the web of silence...
The difference is that you're doing it for fun, not as a career. If it were the latter then criticism is important, but since it's just a hobby I don't think criticism is necessary unless you want to push yourself to be better.
 

Lamia020281

Educated Fool
The difference is that you're doing it for fun, not as a career. If it were the latter then criticism is important, but since it's just a hobby I don't think criticism is necessary unless you want to push yourself to be better.
Yeah, if the artworks are sold commercially, then there's no avoiding negative feedback I guess. And probably no point either. :)
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Ok, here is one.

I need to get away from this sensitive place for a while. And I feel several will like that. Have a cheer. It was about high time that nasty old Forostar would give us some rest.

Why would I want to take a break? Well, I have received some strong feedback lately... because I criticized others. I did that because I truly disagreed with their content, or their attitude.

They say it is my form, or I do not abide by topic rules. Well, I rather think people do not like to have a mirror before their face. They do not want any opposition.

You know what? An opinion is not holy. Once you throw it out on a forum, it is there for others to react, if they choose.
That is how it works. If you disagree just look up what a fucking forum is.

Basically I can not do any good at all, unless I do not read or react to other people their posts. Or always shut up about everything, including the nonsense people can utter. Since I do not wish to be restricted like this, I better go, it's the best for everybody. Ok, I hear you thinking: "But you are I sensitive too, Foro!" Well I am. At this moment I am sensitive about not being able to react to someone's personal view.

I was enjoying several topics as well, lately (even The Beatles; being busy for months, preparing a top 50), but my frustration about not being able to question people.. is simply too big.

Right now, (even if I'm unsure you want to meet me after all this) I'd still love to meet you in real life, e.g. in 2022, and I'd love to be back if that new album arrives.

Maiden better not release it soon. ;-)

Bye
 

MrKnickerbocker

clap hands
Ok, here is one.

I need to get away from this sensitive place for a while. And I feel several will like that. Have a cheer. It was about high time that nasty old Forostar would give us some rest.

Why would I want to take a break? Well, I have received some strong feedback lately... because I criticized others. I did that because I truly disagreed with their content, or their attitude.

They say it is my form, or I do not abide by topic rules. Well, I rather think people do not like to have a mirror before their face. They do not want any opposition.

You know what? An opinion is not holy. Once you throw it out on a forum, it is there for others to react, if they choose.
That is how it works. If you disagree just look up what a fucking forum is.

Basically I can not do any good at all, unless I do not read or react to other people their posts. Or always shut up about everything, including the nonsense people can utter. Since I do not wish to be restricted like this, I better go, it's the best for everybody. Ok, I hear you thinking: "But you are I sensitive too, Foro!" Well I am. At this moment I am sensitive about not being able to react to someone's personal view.

I was enjoying several topics as well, lately (even The Beatles; being busy for months, preparing a top 50), but my frustration about not being able to question people.. is simply too big.

Right now, (even if I'm unsure you want to meet me after all this) I'd still love to meet you in real life, e.g. in 2022, and I'd love to be back if that new album arrives.

Maiden better not release it soon. ;-)

Bye
If you need a break, I’m sure it is for the best. I have always valued your input, even when I find it incredibly disagreeable.

I think the main issue that riled so many people up is that you have a tendency to state your opinions as though they are fact and should be treated as such. Obviously this is a forum and all we’re doing is sharing thoughts and opinions, but your directness and firmness in your own beliefs can appear hostile to many folks (especially newer or younger members).

Anyway, I wish you well and hope to see you around again in the future.
 

Jer

Enjoy the silence
They say it is my form, or I do not abide by topic rules. Well, I rather think people do not like to have a mirror before their face. They do not want any opposition.

You know what? An opinion is not holy. Once you throw it out on a forum, it is there for others to react, if they choose.
That is how it works. If you disagree just look up what a fucking forum is.
QFT. You shouldn’t feel like you need to take a break, but it’s understandable. People are way too thin-skinned these days.

Statements here are inherently statements of opinion unless someone is explicitly framing a statement as objective or factual. It shouldn’t hurt your feelings if someone disagrees with your opinion, however forcefully.
 
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