Question about NO PRAYER album

averycopeland

averycopeland

Invader
I don't know if this topic has been brought up around here already...

but I was wondering if anybody has ever read an interview with Steve Harris discussing
exactly WHY he decided to strip down the band's sound for the NO PRAYER album.

I've read that he really liked the SEVENTH SON album and enjoyed composing in that style...
but then he was very annoyed when it didn't sell nearly as well as anticipated in the United States.
(Apparently, its sales were high everywhere else around the world, though.)

My guess is either
(1) he and the band were simply coming up empty when trying to write more elaborate material,
or (2) he felt some sort of determination to prove that they could appeal to mainstream America.

Of course, to appeal to mainstream America at that point, they had to compete with Hard Rock acts
like Guns and Roses and all those various Hair Metal bands that were on the charts around 1990.
(I also wonder if they hoped to regain "street cred" in order to appeal more to Thrash audiences)

Something must've really been driving the idea... since it was strong enough to push Adrian out.
<_<
 
Ive always wondered about this too. Ive never paid much attention to the album, mainly because I wasnt too impressed with it. I tried going thru it a few times to establish an ear for it, but...I dont know. I just never got into. There's maybe one or two songs that I like.
 
I will never forget the first time I heard 'No Prayer for the Dying' - I was in disbelief that one of my favorite bands, who had released a string of classic flawless to near-flawless albums, could record and release such a flaming crapwagon full of boring songs. At the time I got the impression that Steve Harris ran out of ideas and Bruce started to get bored with Maiden (I hated his singing on that album). I also recall blaming Janick Gers for that slide into mediocrity.

I have warmed up to this album a little since those days (I have warmed up to all of their 90s albums, actually), but it's still my least-favorite all time Maiden recording.
 
The album ain't that crap. To be honest, some of Janick's playing on the 90's albums (for me) is better than his stuff now --excepting the real standouts (that's he's written) like DoD & Talisman.
 
averycopeland said:
I was wondering if anybody has ever read an interview with Steve Harris discussing
exactly WHY he decided to strip down the band's sound for the NO PRAYER album.
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Might not be any deep reason. Musicians often like to try different things.

Something must've really been driving the idea... since it was strong enough to push Adrian out. <_<
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I really don't think it was a case of Adrian being "pushed" out. I think he just had his fill being in Maiden at that point, regardless of how the band was going to approach their music.
 
Adrian wasn't pushed out, he left after seeing the direction the band was heading to. I've always said this and I'll always will : Adrian is the most creative member of Iron Maiden, has always been. He's the most open one to experiments and progressiveness and that's one of the biggest reasons why Maiden headed towards a more progressive style on their last two albums. Adrian's songwriting credits has improved visibly.
 
I just thought Steve wanted to revisit the earlier raw sound of the first few albums with No Prayer For The Dying and that Adrian was more interested in the more progressive, melodic sounds and therefore decided to split after the ASAP project.

I like NPFTD, but it's certainly one of the band's weakest albums. Adrian was most definately missed during his time away from the band.
 
I agree: H really is the most influencial songwriter, excepting Steve. That said, I really wish Dave wrote more (clearly it's not a strength); even just to give albums more variety. I can't agree, personally, that NPftD is "certainly" one of their weakest. There's a few down there with it, if this is the case.
 
I strongly disliked the album when it came out, mainly because it was such a let down from the previous albums. I have grown to appreciate it over time and really like some of the songs, but it is still a weak point in the catalog.
 
The Flash said:
Adrian wasn't pushed out, he left after seeing the direction the band was heading to. I've always said this and I'll always will : Adrian is the most creative member of Iron Maiden, has always been. He's the most open one to experiments and progressiveness and that's one of the biggest reasons why Maiden headed towards a more progressive style on their last two albums. Adrian's songwriting credits has improved visibly.
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I'm sorry, but it's a fact he was sacked. He even said it, Steve said it and told the way it happened. Steve had decided that after a year long break the band should try to record some more direct stuff and Adrian wasn't particularly pleased with this direction, so he was told to leave. He even said later in interviews that he didn't want to. As for him beeing the most creative member, with all due respect, your are certainly joking. I think Forostar has done some great statistics about the song writing, and the answer to that matter is not open to discussion. Listening to SIT or SSoaSS, one can hear who wrote the more complex, "progressive" and (in my opinion) creative songs. Adrian himself said the Paschendale was his first real attempt in that direction.
 
First off, whilst it is again... part artistic interpretation, part authors opinion (of material mostly), and does not have a direct interview - here's an extract from an IM biography book

Feeling detached from Heavy Metal, Adrian Smith had in his own mind at least, come t the end of his tenure with Iron Maiden. He believed that with Somewhere in Time Maiden had been moving in the right direction, since the melodic aspect was always the most pleasing factor for the guitarist. Bruce Dickinson's lack of involvement in the writing of Somewhere... had left a void in the band's sound that was filled by the more commercial efforts of 'Wasted Years' and 'Heaven can Wait'. Not with the front man returning to creative duties on Seventh Son..., Smith felt somewhat dismayed by the bands return to the heavier reaches of rock.
In short, he had become disenchanted with life in a heavy metal act. Smith certainly wanted to exercise his creative flare with a solo project, although his attitude did not display the same level of detachment as his vocalist. Where Bruce could run off and mark his own material with the label 'solo', it was more a case of all or nothing for Smith. Not only was he unhappy, the band had also picked up on his lack of enthusiasm and it was mutually decided that the best thing to do was for Adrian to leave the band.
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He of course then progressed onto ASAP, which was less metal and more 'AOR' than maiden which fits with the "he was growing tired of metal".

Personally, I've always been of the opinion that he left of his own accord rather than was 'fired', he didn't like the direction being taken because he was growing less interested in the heavier area's of metal, and so it was discussed and the culmination was he left. Also if I recall reading interviews from Bruce (don't ask where, I don't know) he said that in general there was a bit of distaste around the way that NPFTD was recorded in an extremely aged mobile studio thus hampering the sound that they had been able to work with in the past.

the answer to that matter is not open to discussion
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Now that, I strongly disagree with. Unless you are one of the Iron Maiden members in question, all that can be done is speculation. Whilst I have mentioned things read in interviews myself, I also understand that over the course of 20 years people will say a great many different things in interviews that don't always match up. All we (the fans) can do is speculate what happens, and thus, it is ALWAYS open to discussion.

I am of the opinion that Adrian IS very open to experimentation and progressiveness, he LIKED the direction that SiT was taking them (synth etc), just because he wasn't writing it himself back then doesn't mean he didn't like the direction that the album was taken. His contributions were a bit more commercial, but still far from the 'heavy metal' sound that maiden had put out on PoM/PS, and hence can be called 'experimentation' as it was different to their usual sound.
 
As for him beeing the most creative member, with all due respect, your are certainly joking. I think Forostar has done some great statistics about the song writing, and the answer to that matter is not open to discussion. (harrisdevot)

This is a discussion forum.
 
What I meant with the "not open to discussion" bit, which is to abrupt, I admit, is that Harry is by far the most important contributor in terms of songwrinting, as Forostar's statistics prove. I'm talking about figures, which are facts, not quality, which is a matter of personnal taste. As for the Maiden biography, I think it's a bit biased on the subject of Adrian's departure. Steve has always been clear, and Adrian too. Anyway, my main point is, I'm more and more surprised with this over estimation of Adrian's work and contribution. He is not the best guitarist in Maiden, not their best songwriter and I think his work on TFF is far inferior to his contributions in AMoLaD. And, can he write a decent song on his own ? The Flash statment sounds a little excessive to me. Guy, where were you back in the 80s ? Don't focus on Maiden's most recent history.
 
I don't care about statistics. I know you don't like him. (I've read your previous posts) But whilst stating facts, you're actually attacking the concept of musical taste. ("with all due respect, you're certainly joking " what the hell is that all about ? If you're saying that I'm "certainly joking" then even though you state as it, you don't have respect to my taste, simple as said.)

Steve is the leader of the band and also is the main songwriter. But to be honest with you, the songs which are written by his own doesn't surprise me anymore. Blood Brothers, No More Lies, For the Greater Good of God and When the Wild Wind Blows. Those songs doesn't surprise me. Steve has some main ideas and also is a great arranger, that's for sure, but after the Reunion, if it wasn't for Adrian and Bruce's comeback, Maiden, which was in all-Steve domination in 90's (which lead to Bruce's departure) would have started to release mediocre albums.

Tell me what you want to tell, but I think "written by only Steve" creative period has ended in 1988. He has written some nice songs since then (Afraid to Shoot Strangers, Sign of the Cross, No More Lies to name a few) but these songs aren't surprising anymore.

Adrian is the most original musician on this band. It's not a surprise that he has credits on most of the standout songs on AMOLAD and TFF : Brighter Than a Thousand Suns, These Colours Don't Run, The Longest Day, Lord of Light, Mother of Mercy, Coming Home, Isle of Avalon, Starblind.

Also, to answer the "And, can he write a decent song on his own ?"

- Wasted Years
- Sea of Madness
- Stranger in a Strange Land

Is that enough for you ?

I absolutely love the Adrian-Steve songwriting partnership and also the Adrian-Steve-Bruce partnership but I think Adrian is the most original one of these people. My favorite 80's Maiden album is Somewhere in Time, on which Adrian shines the most (three songs by himself and fabulous solos all around the record) and my favorite 2000's Maiden album is The Final Frontier also Adrian has credits on my four favorite songs off this record. (I know you're going to tell me that Steve also has credits on those songs but he's mostly the arranger and the combiner, I can guess what parts have been written by which member)
 
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
I agree: H really is the most influencial songwriter, excepting Steve. That said, I really wish Dave wrote more (clearly it's not a strength); even just to give albums more variety.
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Totally with you here.

I can't agree, personally, that NPftD is "certainly" one of their weakest. There's a few down there with it, if this is the case.
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That's cool, the weakest album for one fan may be the strongest for another. That's the great thing about a group like Iron Maiden. :)

For me the weakest albums are the 90's releases, the period H was absent from the band. By no means are they BAD albums, all four have some awesome songs included, but I prefer the releases from 80's & 00's.
 
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