Osama bin Laden Killed

Perun said:
And who are we supposed to be afraid of now? As yesterday's papers showed, the Al Qaeda scare is still being used. The headline read: "Al Qaeda terrorists planned blood bath in Northrhine-Westphalia". Above that was a picture of the players of Borussia Dortmund celebrating their football championship, Dortmund being a major town in that state. Unfitting, to say the least.
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Speaking of this - didn't German police uncover an alleged terror plot against a match between Borussia Dortmund and Schalke 04 earlier this spring?
 
Not really too sure about "celebrating" this news, as others have said, who replaces him? What is the reaction going to be?

While he was obviously a very influential figure and certainly a loss to Al Qaeda, I doubt this is going to be much of a positive impact. No one man is the key to it all.
 
Pakistan once again have shown how reliable they have been over the years (not!).
There will be lots of questions about their role.
 
Really? I thought it was common knowledge that Pakistan have been shall we say, unhelpful, as far as Afghanistan and international terrorism are concerned?
 
Ardius said:
Not really too sure about "celebrating" this news, as others have said, who replaces him? What is the reaction going to be?

While he was obviously a very influential figure and certainly a loss to Al Qaeda, I doubt this is going to be much of a positive impact. No one man is the key to it all.
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Agreed. No celebration here. It's not as if this will cause international terrorism to fade and die ...
 
This line from the BBC article makes me pretty suspicious:
BBC said:
A US official quoted by Associated Press news agency said Bin Laden's body had been buried at sea, although this has not been confirmed.
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Why would you do that? Convenient for the purposes of identification, eh?
They better be pretty sure they killed him, otherwise this all going to look pretty silly.
 
Eddies Wingman said:
Speaking of this - didn't German police uncover an alleged terror plot against a match between Borussia Dortmund and Schalke 04 earlier this spring?
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They did. Another proof of the efficiency of German counter-terrorism. No need for stricter laws. It works.

Forostar said:
Pakistan once again have shown how reliable they have been over the years (not!).
There will be lots of questions about their role.
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What questions? Reports show that bin Laden took every measure possible to conceal his hiding in that place. It was mere chance that American agents found out about the place, and they didn't even share that knowledge with the Pakistani government.
 
He hid in a town near the capital, and very near a Pakistani military (or police) base. I don't know about your media, but in mine one wonders if some Pakistani officials might have helped him (I had come to the same conclusion from looking at that location without a journalist suggesting this strange matter). I find it likely, but I'd say, let's get deeper into the matter. Pakistan's often told they would deal with militants, but they have hardly done it. In that light I wouldn't be surprised that the Pakistani could answer the world a few questions about their role in international terrorism and about their role of providing a safe haven for this man with so much blood in his hands.

@Ardius: Bin Laden has already become a martyr, but in order to prevent him from becoming a bigger martyr than necessary, the Americans learned that it's better to get rid of the body. Besides, no country wants to give him a final resting place (Saudi Arabia was asked and said no). No place to visit him, less fanboys at his grave.
 
I agree with Zare and the others who expressed their reservations about this - I don't think it should have been made public at all - yes, it's a small consolation to the families of the people who died in the 2001 attacks, but IMO it can only serve as fuel to the fire that terrorism is, it will surely provoke the terrorists to try and stage one or more large-scale attacks somewhere in the Western countries.

I didn't read any of the news reports - didn't the marines at least try to apprehend him, or was the mission "shoot to kill" from the outset? I mean, wouldn't it be more democratic to convict him of everything he has done in a court of law?

@ Perun - Has the German government implemented stricter anti-terrorist laws since the New York, London and Madrid bombings? Have those laws reduced people's civil liberties? Or has it simply, as you stated, enforced the pre-existing laws to a fuller extent?
 
According to multiple sources, the Navy SEALs gave him the opportunity to surrender. While I won't go as far as to say Pakistan knew where he was, I don't believe they cooperated. He was in a fucking mansion, not a cave, in the middle of a populated area. Pakistan had good motivation to not cooperate, all the billions of dollars in aid we are giving them each year.

The most important thing that killing Bin Laden does is give closure to all the people who suffered losses on 9-11, the bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, the Madrid bombings and London subway bombings. It also sends the message that no one is above being brought to justice, no matter where they hide or how long it takes.
 
Making it public raises reputation and approval of current USA government. Info that's been released is vague in detail - it was a firefight.

Bin Laden has already become a martyr, but in order to prevent him from becoming a bigger martyr than necessary, the Americans learned that it's better to get rid of the body. Besides, no country wants to give him a final resting place (Saudi Arabia was asked and said no). No place to visit him, less fanboys at his grave.
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Strongly disagree. Tossing the body overboard isn't exactly Islamic funeral. Which is going to make Islamic extremists even more furious.
Besides, i'd bury him somewhere in decency, and mount a camera to a nearby tree. To have a peek who's going to cry at his grave.

It also sends the message that no one is above being brought to justice
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Ok, i'm going over the line here; shut the fuck up. Your army has killed a lot of innocent people in last two decades, and you aren't extraditing anyone to international court of justice. You aren't in position to talk justice, pal.
 
It also appears that the photo of the dead Bin Laden has been photoshopped, it's a mash-up from a photo a dead person of Arab descent (apparently available online for several years) and one of Bin Laden's photos used in various media throughout the years. I won't post it here because it's a disturbing image, google it ("fake bin laden dead photo" or something like that).
 
Yeah, but that wasn't released by USA gov't. It's just a cheap media trick.
 
Zare said:
Ok, i'm going over the line here;
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Yes, you are. There are many ways to express that thought in a polite tone. Keep it civil.
 
Fantastic news that they got him.  It sounds like they got on this path by getting info on the courier from a prisoner at Gitmo using "enhanced interrogation" and followed that lead for years which lead to last night.

Great job by all involved.
 
Forostar said:
@Ardius: Bin Laden has already become a martyr, but in order to prevent him from becoming a bigger martyr than necessary, the Americans learned that it's better to get rid of the body. Besides, no country wants to give him a final resting place (Saudi Arabia was asked and said no). No place to visit him, less fanboys at his grave.
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BS, so instead this place in Pakistan will be anyway.
Better to get rid of the body so everyone can only take the American goverments/militarys word on it. Not that I would like the Americans to put the dead body on display, but it just seems oh so convenient that we don't have a dead body to prove it, it suggests they are trying to hide something.
 
No one wants the body, like/believe it or not. Dumping it, is the only option left.

edit:
Zare said:
you aren't extraditing anyone to international court of justice.
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This is indeed something that needs to be resolved, one day.
 
I don't like it that they got rid of the body. I don't think they are lying, becuase of the timing, but this is going to bring out all the wackiest of conspriacy theories.
 
Ardius said:
BS, so instead this place in Pakistan will be anyway.
Better to get rid of the body so everyone can only take the American goverments/militarys word on it. Not that I would like the Americans to put the dead body on display, but it just seems oh so convenient that we don't have a dead body to prove it, it suggests they are trying to hide something.
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I really don't think they're trying to hide anything.  They have the DNA and the pictures.  And, if Osama were truly alive, we'd see a video surface in a few weeks.  I understand they delayed the announcement until they were sure the DNA matched, but they knew they had the right guy even before that -- it's not like we don't know what he looks like.  I think Foro has it right for the reasons to bury the body at sea -- no one wanted it, and nothing good could come from still having it around.  Fairly certain that the U.S. government wasn't looking to insult Muslims by the burial, and indeed, in the U.S. burial at sea is an honor for sailors.  In my view, feeding him to pigs would have been too good for him. 
 
Muslims require the body to be buried within 24 hours, if anyting not doing it quickly would have been insulting.  Also, they said they had a cleric on the ship to did everything properly (which if true is much more than he deserved). 
 
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