KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
I've listened to them all just once, but Morningrise felt very consistent as a whole. Orchid was maybe 50% good and MAYH I just didn't like at all.
Opeth
- Thread starter Cornfed Hick
- Start date
Switch To Bid You Farewell and Advent and I agree.
I don't think you'll like post-growl Opeth if you don't like progressive rock from the 1970's, and not the Rush kind at that. While Opeth have always been prog, I feel like classic Opeth was not prog on purpose. They had long songs, acoustic sections and death metal sections and it all kinda felt proggy, without the main intention of playing prog. But nowadays that is the intention, along with sounding retro, and I just don't think it's working, apart from Pale Communion.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
I take offense to this one, predictably. Camel, yes, Tull, yes, King Crimson, yes, but they have pretty much nothing in common with that band of sleep-deprived, zombified accountants on helium.
What I meant by that, is that they sound a lot like progressive rock from the 1970's, but not Rush, which is a band that LC likes.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Oh, I took that as a specification. My bad.
Yep, I agree, they don't sound like Rush at all.
Yep, I agree, they don't sound like Rush at all.
Anyway, I've gained new found appreciation for Watershed.
When it comes to Opeth, for example, I really disliked The Roundhouse Tapes due to no Lopez and for what I perceived as a weak performance from Akerfeldt when it comes to growls. That was in, like, 2011. But now, in 2020, when his growls have gone to hell, I really like that show and his performance. At the same time, I didn't even like Ghost Reveries, but few years later I did (except for first 2 songs which I still do not like) - this was after Sorceress, I think.
And now, after the shitstorm that is In Gouda Venison, I finally started truly liking Watershed from start to finish. Sure, the growled sections are forced af and growls themselves are weaker than ever up until that point... but the rest is pretty good. Hex Omega is obviously the best song on the album. Just wish they drew out the ending even more, but it stands out as Top 4 Opeth song ending along with Deliverance.
I also started liking the Royal Albert Hall live album.
So the next album I can retroactively start liking is Heritage... Which I doubt will happen.
When it comes to Opeth, for example, I really disliked The Roundhouse Tapes due to no Lopez and for what I perceived as a weak performance from Akerfeldt when it comes to growls. That was in, like, 2011. But now, in 2020, when his growls have gone to hell, I really like that show and his performance. At the same time, I didn't even like Ghost Reveries, but few years later I did (except for first 2 songs which I still do not like) - this was after Sorceress, I think.
And now, after the shitstorm that is In Gouda Venison, I finally started truly liking Watershed from start to finish. Sure, the growled sections are forced af and growls themselves are weaker than ever up until that point... but the rest is pretty good. Hex Omega is obviously the best song on the album. Just wish they drew out the ending even more, but it stands out as Top 4 Opeth song ending along with Deliverance.
I also started liking the Royal Albert Hall live album.
So the next album I can retroactively start liking is Heritage... Which I doubt will happen.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
I couldn't agree more. Their new-era albums have a few strong songs each, and Pale Communion is by far the best of the lot, but to me the whole retro vintage '70s prog thing just doesn't suit them.
It's been a while since I've watched it, but I recall the growls on the Roundhouse Tapes sounding a lot better than those on Albert Hall. The latter had a better set, though, except for the 11 minutes of wasted space that is Wreath.
Watershed is such a mixed bag to me. I don't think any song on the album even cracks my Opeth top 20, yet no song is flat-out bad. I prefer the ones with growls because it was Opeth's "growly farewell tour," but none of those three songs are excellent. Heir Apparent is my favorite. Hex Omega, while solid, is a bit too empty and open for my liking. Oh, and the middle section of Porcelain Heart is beautiful. Last but not least, the Russian circus section in Lotus Eater is my favorite musical passage on the album.
Heritage sounds like Opeth wrote 30 songs, took the best parts of all of them, and started pasting them together randomly. They were probably inebriated while doing so, as well. It's a solid album but it is a bizarre one; the best (arguably) song even sounds like two songs stitched together.
Take that back. That song is awesome. I kinda prefer the RAH version because of the added blastbeats at the end. Just about the only instance of Axe doing something better than Lopez.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
Ha, I wish I could but I just don't hear the appeal. I've heard it countless times and there's only a section or two that are even moderately catchy to me. It's by far the weakest track on Deliverance in my opinion. Many fans seem to greatly dislike the closer (BTPISIO) but I think it is much stronger.
By The Pain I See In Others is also kickass. I would say it's my favorite song of the album, but there's also a juggernaut that is Deliverance on that album. Perfect album anyway.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
I like that song a lot, too, and I'm not sure why Mikael always disliked it. The "chorus" part ("rise to submission...") is insanely catchy, especially when there's double bass underneath. The growled verses over relatively quiet music isn't that weird, and the middle section is haunting.
My favorite on that album is Master's Apprentices, though. The first half is pure kick ass metal, and most of the second is classic folky Opeth. I love how the chorus gets happy at one point with the major "ahhhhhhs" and then goes right back to minor key depression.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
My 2020 relisten has begun and I'm just through the Early Years! I think Orchid is my favorite from those first three records, overall. I haven't added up my ratings yet, but it remains the most favorable in my memory. Some brief thoughts:
Orchid - The mood conjured by this record is astounding. It feels haunted. The songs are not always immediately recognizable, but as a whole it just works. The two mini-instrumentals (especially Silhouette) have a lot to do with the vibe. Best tracks are Under The Weeping Moon and The Twilight is My Robe.
Morningrise - I enjoy this record while listening to it, but for some reason it just doesn't click. Despite three incredibly strong songs (of five), it seems even more disjointed than the debut. The ridiculously constant start-stop of heavy and acoustics feels almost like a parody of Opeth's dynamic prowess. Best tracks are To Bid You Farewell and The Night and The Silent Water.
My Arms, Your Hearse - A true transition record (similar to Watershed and, I think, In Cauda Venenum). The style has changed and the songwriting, and performances, are a little shaky. I do like this record, but it feels so very unmemorable and a lot of that has to do with Mikael's underwhelming vocal parts (more so in design than performance). Apparently the lyrics were completely written for this album before the music and it shows: the vocals are often crammed in and could've used some trimming. A few of the songs feel like giant walls of sound with few memorable sections. The start-stop heavy riff in April Ethereal is awesome, the rest of the song is a blur. The intro to Amen Corner is amazing, the rest of the song is a blur. The first half of Karma is a blur, the second half is great. Best song is Demon, followed by When.
Orchid - The mood conjured by this record is astounding. It feels haunted. The songs are not always immediately recognizable, but as a whole it just works. The two mini-instrumentals (especially Silhouette) have a lot to do with the vibe. Best tracks are Under The Weeping Moon and The Twilight is My Robe.
Morningrise - I enjoy this record while listening to it, but for some reason it just doesn't click. Despite three incredibly strong songs (of five), it seems even more disjointed than the debut. The ridiculously constant start-stop of heavy and acoustics feels almost like a parody of Opeth's dynamic prowess. Best tracks are To Bid You Farewell and The Night and The Silent Water.
My Arms, Your Hearse - A true transition record (similar to Watershed and, I think, In Cauda Venenum). The style has changed and the songwriting, and performances, are a little shaky. I do like this record, but it feels so very unmemorable and a lot of that has to do with Mikael's underwhelming vocal parts (more so in design than performance). Apparently the lyrics were completely written for this album before the music and it shows: the vocals are often crammed in and could've used some trimming. A few of the songs feel like giant walls of sound with few memorable sections. The start-stop heavy riff in April Ethereal is awesome, the rest of the song is a blur. The intro to Amen Corner is amazing, the rest of the song is a blur. The first half of Karma is a blur, the second half is great. Best song is Demon, followed by When.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
I love Opeth's first two albums. The songs are monstrous and insanely progressive, and the moods created are indeed haunting. The production is weak, of course - I always like a heavier bottom end and a razor-sharp guitar tone - but the songs are masterful. I know that Mikael does not think so, and has even called some of them "goofy" with "minstrel shit," but I wish they'd explore their earlier years more often in live shows. The whispering gets a bit tiresome as you can tell Mikael is only doing it because he has little confidence in his clean voice, but thankfully those moments are few and far between.
Orchid and Morningrise really can be considered one massive double album, as there isn't a drastic change of style between them. Orchid's tracks are obviously a little less polished and definitely more random, while Morningrise sees the band maturing with emotive tunes such as Night and the Silent Water and To Bid You Farewell. I don't understand your love for Twilight from Orchid, though; the top three from that album are definitely Forest, Weeping Moon, and Mist for me. From Morningrise it's the two I mentioned above as well as Black Rose Immortal (easily my favorite song from Opeth's first three albums).
I must also mention that Orchid closer Apostle in Triumph is really an average song, but whatever is going on with the effect-laden guitars and killer bass groove about halfway through (right after Mikael sings "black stone") is one of the coolest things Opeth has ever written.
I also agree with you that My Arms, Your Hearse (widely considered the band's heaviest album) is an underwhelming listen after the band's first two monsters. The story is creepy, but the music itself rarely hits the standout moments from their earliest years. It truly is a wall of sound - there are few dynamics at all. Distorted strummed chords riff after riff gets obnoxious, and there's zero standout bass parts since Mikael didn't want the bass to "take over the show" like it did with the first two records (I honestly miss that fretless six string sound a lot). Standout moments include the "ooooh-weee dun dun dun dunt, oooh-weee dun dun dun dun dee dunt" riff near the end of April Ethereal, most of Amen Corner and its spooky intro Madrigal, all of Demon, the tranquil Credence, most of Karma, and the haunting Epilogue. Yeah, I guess this album isn't as bad as I thought now that I listed all of that. The only track I've never understood is When - I honestly find it to be one of Opeth's most overrated songs. There are zero moments in this nine-minute track that stand out to me whatsoever. More than anything, I think the sound on their first two albums was far more unique and memorable than the wall of sound we got on MAYH.
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MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Rounding the corner towards NewPeth as I re-digest Deliverance and Damnation.
I very much feel the strain in the songwriting on the former album, and the subsequent release on the latter. You can even tell based on A Fair Judgment/Absent Friends where Mikael's interest lied.
Wreath is an utter waste of a song. It's like if you took the worst moments from MAYH and distilled them down into a single song. It's not terrible (like the should-have-been-saved-for-Storm-Corrosion track, Weakness), it's just so bland and boring.
The best way to have released this album would have been a 3-track Deliverance EP (Master's, BTPISIO, and the title track) followed by a longer version of Damnation that includes For Absent Friend's and A Fair Judgment (and eliminates Weakness).
I very much feel the strain in the songwriting on the former album, and the subsequent release on the latter. You can even tell based on A Fair Judgment/Absent Friends where Mikael's interest lied.
Wreath is an utter waste of a song. It's like if you took the worst moments from MAYH and distilled them down into a single song. It's not terrible (like the should-have-been-saved-for-Storm-Corrosion track, Weakness), it's just so bland and boring.
The best way to have released this album would have been a 3-track Deliverance EP (Master's, BTPISIO, and the title track) followed by a longer version of Damnation that includes For Absent Friend's and A Fair Judgment (and eliminates Weakness).
I wholeheartedly disagree. Both albums are perfection. I'd only cut For Absent Friends and that's it. And I prefer when Wreath ends with blastbeats like on RAH live album. But that's it.
IRYO though
IRYO though
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
I believe that Wreath is the weakest song on either album (including For Absent Friends, which is a beautiful little interlude that sets up Opeth's dynamic prowess with that intro to Master's Apprentices). The song has a few stronger moments -- including one that weirdly reminds me of an evil version of the underwater levels in the Mario games (1:47) -- and the intro/outro riff is pummeling. The quiet bit at 7:37 with the ethnic percussion is also pretty neat, but the rest of the song does very little for me. It's a study in drumming for sure, but almost every part of every other song on this album grips me tighter.
Weakness, while the weakest track from Damnation, is not weak (speaking to how great the album is). It's a solid experience after you've listened to the first seven tracks. The style of the song is not one I typically enjoy, being mostly ambient with no rhythm section. But it fits after the rest of the album. It sounds like someone on their death bed lamenting their life's decisions, or those of a loved one. The more "upbeat" bridge is haunting, and the ending line "I'm not afraid of what you have just done, but of what you've just become" gives me chills every time. Mikael's tone is beautifully somber here.
Some people listen to Damnation and think it's a buzzkill and/or depressing, but I see it as mostly reflective. The two standout tracks to me are Hope Leaves (this is a masterpiece, and even better during live versions with the extended outro) and of course Windowpane with its atypical structure and low-key progginess. Both are 11/10. I rank the foreboding To Rid the Disease the next highest, followed closely by the more typically-structured In My Time of Need. The Spanish-tinged Ending Credits and the whacky Closure are next, with Death Whispered A Lullaby being near the bottom (although I still love it). The album is perfect to me, and one I bust out regularly on snowy days and/or while sipping scotch and/or coffee and/or dark beer.
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JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
You and others (at least Mosh I think) keep repeating this - and I would know, having collected everything Opeth-related on this forum, but I just don't get it. Deliverance is not an album that'd be strained or trying to hard or whatever.
I agree with you that Wreath might sound a bit MAYH-like, as if they tried to channel that approach and atmosphere, but with the technicality and tastiness of that Lopez lineup. Some of the (quasi-)"wall of sounds" there are actually downright haunting (the part from about 5:45 owards, the passage at 9:07-9:14 with those really weird and eerie backing choirs - my favourite moment), some parts are just great in general - the no-nonsense intro, which sounds really hectic and oppressive, the part after 8:32, which sounds like the variation on the Leper Affinity closing riff (inter-album continuity, eh? Talking about that one, that aforementioned part 9:07-9:14 actually also reminds me of that latter part of Blackwater Park (at about 8:05-8:13-ish) which is cool. Makes you feel it's all part of a greater whole).
Oh, and the ethnic percussion.
Although I love the piece, I admit that as a whole it doesn't need to be everyone's favourite, being more of a hodgepodge of some cool parts and horror atmosphere. But it's also really the only one, which makes me think about how people might form their opinion on an album based on the opening track alone. Could it be so? That the opener (and such a long one like this at that) is this sort of a calling card which taints the whole album experience?
Cause no-one's going to convince me the title track is forced and a result of a lack of inspiration. No-one even thinks so, right? It may be overplayed live, but it's for a reason. And you might not have it in your top ten (not quite sure I do anymore), but it's a classic. A Fair Judgement might be one of their best metal albums without growls and is pretty beloved on this forum. For Absent Friends is a cute, jazzy interlude and it doesn't count, Master's Apprentices have the rest of that "dudebro" moments from Blackwater Park (especially the main riff in the title track there?) with the absolutely crushing marching opening and the freakiest and creepiest use of happy mood on an Opeth song ever. Maybe they didn't have to go back to the heavy and leave it at that, sort of Symptom of the Universe-like, but then again, the a capella growls are funny.
And BTPISIO... man, I get that a lot of people either don't get or don't like the track, but don't tell me it's not inspired. The so-called "underwater goblin screaming", the jolting "rise to submission" chorus (such a cool part), the circus section (BTW - I absolutely hate the overused circus/clown etc. theme in music, both lyrically and musicall, but here it's pretty underhanded and pleasant). Oh, and I absolutely hate silence at the end of the album and "hidden tracks" afterwards, but this here, although completely unsubstantial is really, really cool. One of the creepiest closings to an album ever. Really freaked me out the first time, makes me uneasy each time after.
This is not a spent band doing pro-forma numbers. There's creativity, there's catchiness, there's masterful work with atmospherics. It's an attempt at creating a completely different closer than BWP was and it succeeds.
All I'm saying is "this album was forced by ... someone? (fans? studio?)... Michael had no heart in it, only wanted to make Damnation, it sucks as a result" - I don't know where this comes from. It's a colourful, playful album with each track unlike the other, in fact as a whole it flows better and feels more cohesive and enjoyable from the beginning to the end than Blackwater Park. That one had Portrait and Dirge and the easy-to-overplay Drapery (I love all three, but rank them below anything off Deliverance) and doesn't go down as well, IMHO.
And again, with Weakness - man, no! It's such a perfect closer to the album! After the moodiness and the subtlety and melancholy of the whole work you get this question mark at the end - it just echoes into silence, like a demented lullaby, and again makes you uneasy, but in a completely different way than Deliverance's ending. Kinda feeling like a "bonus" track, it reminds me of Derelict Herds - that one is also slightly unfinished, very catchy (in that sense you can hardly get it out of your head) and ending Watershed (in the "proper" version with DH on it, IMHO) at the crossroads, making one things about "things left unsaid", if you get what I mean.
Or like Beau said
Honestly, I wrote that before I read what you wrote.
Now that I mention your post:
I appreciate the effort, 'cause I really can't judge the songs on their own against one another. It's not that I can't tell them apart or don't feel different things listening to them, but Damnation is really weird in that regard, I just can't hack it to pieces. All I know that I disagree with Lullaby being near the bottom (in fact both tracks 2 and 3, the "pop" ones I really like - it's nice to see Opeth being this ridiculously catchy, although it makes them feel like a Steven Wilson project from the turn of the century (Stupid Dream, Lightbulb Sun) at times). Also as for Rid, I wrote this some time ago:
and that said, I kinda like Porcelain Heart more - that is, I like the melody (or one similar to that) as it's used there and I possibly like it a tad less here on Damnation.
Poll is still open 
