Official Star Wars Thread

As with The Force Awakens, I thought they'd manage to recapture some of the feel, pace and humour of the original trilogy, which the prequels didn't manage to do. Some of the humour was verging on self-parody, however. Maybe they feel the need to match the quickfire one-liners of the Marvel films? In that respect, it's not entirely Star Wars.

Snoke's death was unexpected, but then I never thought very much of him as a Sith master. Palpatine was way more despicable and evil. It was probably the only way to take Kylo Ren's character forward, too. He was too much like a moody teenager in the previous film, while Last Jedi leaves him as an unhinged maniac. Which isn't really as formidable as someone like Palpatine or Vader, but a lot better than hissy fit boy of Force Awakens.

I was slightly surprised that there wasn't a more substantial plot twist in Last Jedi. Luke's death wasn't a tremendous surprise, given that there's still some parallels with the original trilogy, and that Luke was starting to look very much like old Obi-Wan just before his own death. That makes me wonder if there's going to be a very big plot twist in the next episode, or whether the storyline will slip into too predictable and too tame. Part of me wonders if Rey could succumb to the dark side, while Ren ends up coming back from the dark side. I can imagine both being destroyed to bring the Force back in balance once and for all. As for Snoke having another apprentice, I assumed that was referring to his attempt to turn Rey.

Brother and sister, or not?

I thought Luke's death was a dignified end for a great Jedi tbh, and it does carry forward the theme that the Jedi must die out in order for the Sith to die out.
 
7.7 now. My wife just went (I will watch Cars 3 at home with the kids and hope to go within two weeks or so). I am curious about her opinion.
 
I liked it. A few complaints though. Finn, he should have died. I'm sorry, but he would have been a better character and it would have been a better movie letting him ram his ship against the cannon. While Luke's face off with Kylo was cool, the movie could've used more Luke as a badass Jedi again. WTF is up with keeping Rey's past so secretive? Who the fuck is she and why is the force so strong with her? It is really starting to annoy me the same way I despised the Harry Potter franchise. Oh, you're special because the script says so. Congrats.

Aside from that, LOVED the humor and the movie was good. It pissed off A LOT of fanboys, but you can't make everyone happy. Oh, one last thought. Just like with Force Awakens, I felt like I was watching Empire Strikes Back part 2. Many lines and situations felt directly lifted from the original trilogy, but it might just be me.
 
Could be taken out of context (cut/paste) but Mark Hamill says he virtually disagreed with everything the director decided on his character.
 
Onhell said:
WTF is up with keeping Rey's past so secretive? Who the fuck is she and why is the force so strong with her? It is really starting to annoy me the same way I despised the Harry Potter franchise. Oh, you're special because the script says so. Congrats.
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But that is the point: Rey is nobody. They answer the question in this movie. She is a child who became very in touch with the force through dumb luck, just like the kid at the end of the movie with the broom. The same was true of Anakin Skywalker, so I don’t know why people are all upset now that she’s not so-and-so’s child with a pure bloodline through the force. Wouldn’t that be the wrong thing to say? That power and talent only come through certain bloodlines?

If they go back on this in the next movie and claim that Kylo was lying I’ll be very upset. I thought this aspect of the story was the single best choice made in the script.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
But that is the point: Rey is nobody. They answer the question in this movie. She is a child who became very in touch with the force through dumb luck, just like the kid at the end of the movie with the broom. The same was true of Anakin Skywalker, so I don’t know why people are all upset now that she’s not so-and-so’s child with a pure bloodline through the force. Wouldn’t that be the wrong thing to say? That power and talent only come through certain bloodlines?

If they go back on this in the next movie and claim that Kylo was lying I’ll be very upset. I thought this aspect of the story was the single best choice made in the script.
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I think the "nobody becoming somebody" hero arc can work wonders if the narrative is staged well (it was brilliantly executed in Blade Runner 2049), but I think Disney got themselves in a pickle here. The primary issue was with The Force Awakens' lightsaber discovery sequence - it created an expectation for many folks of a greater reveal & larger connection to the OT (the saber "called" to Rey, Obi Wan's dialogue about her first steps etc...) so it felt like a complete red herring/bait and switch to have her parents be nobody. They teased a mystery and instead provided a "gotcha, just kidding!" answer. I've heard similar arguments for Snoke - we have this insanely powerful villain who played a critical role shaping current events that everyone wants to know more about... and he gets written out 1/2 way through the second movie.

I'm personally still on the fence on whether I like Johnson's approach. I can see why he did it from a writing perspective, but at the same time, from a movie watching fun perspective I didn't care for it. Though I think I'll reserve final judgment until the final film of this trilogy as that might provide some answers.
 
So, i'm a star wars fan since 2000, i loved some things from phantom menace, and j think the second and third movies are good. I will get mad with the new one?
 
Saw it. Still digesting. I had a weird reaction to it.......I simultaneously enjoyed it/disliked it:

  • The Leia 'Mary Poppins flying back to the ship' was ridiculous. I get what Johnson was trying to do by showing Leia's power, but it looked so cheesy on screen the way they did it.
  • I related to Luke's story - having personally shifted from student/mentor, subordinate/boss, child/parent in my own life, and realizing that it's not all a bed of roses and coping with failures after successes...I actually liked his struggle. It's not often that we see our heroes after they ride off into the sunset and I liked it wasn't all peachy. It was pretty ballsy of Johnson to do that with such a beloved figure. At the end of the OT, Luke was basically the lord/savior of the galaxy (and was deified by 30+ subsequent years of video games/comics/books) that it was interesting to see him be made vulnerable.
  • I loved Yoda's "learned nothing did you, dumbass?" speech.
  • I really, really wanted Anakin's ghost to show up and counsel Luke, or do something to piss off Snoke/Ren...even if it's just a 15 second cameo. The story just begged for it.
  • Rey's parents...gah. I don't have a problem with them being 'pedestrians' (in some ways, it's better), but I do have a problem with the lack of continuity/ mystery from TFA. Why have the entire tantalizing lightsaber connection/departing spaceship dream sequence if you're going to just flush it down the toilet in the next movie? Not to mention that Disney/Abrams have been teasing it since the release of TFA. What a let down...unless it was all a ruse by Ren...or he doesn't have the full story either. If it stands, this is a classic "Chekhov's gun" rule violation.
  • I wanted to learn more about the Knights of Ren - grrrr....maybe the next movie.
  • I wanted to learn more about Snoke, but I loved the way that he arrogantly thought he had it all figured out and then Ren deceived him. The resulting fight was great.
  • The casino planet subplot was underwhelming. It did ultimately allow Finn/Rose to infiltrate the First Order, but it felt rushed/underdeveloped (if that's possible in a nearly three hour movie).
  • Phasma...c'mon. Underutilized once again.
  • Didn't care for the 'Luke Illusion' ploy - Ren couldn't figure that out the second that Luke emerged from the barrage of laser fire from a dozen AT-ATs? The Force power itself was cool though.
  • They clearly had no overarching story for this trilogy...there is no obvious major cliff-hanger to resolve (ESB left us with the pending confrontation with Vader and the rescue of Han). Where does JJ pick up from here? This was really almost written as the finale.
 
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MrKnickerbocker said:
But that is the point: Rey is nobody. They answer the question in this movie. She is a child who became very in touch with the force through dumb luck, just like the kid at the end of the movie with the broom. The same was true of Anakin Skywalker, so I don’t know why people are all upset now that she’s not so-and-so’s child with a pure bloodline through the force. Wouldn’t that be the wrong thing to say? That power and talent only come through certain bloodlines?

If they go back on this in the next movie and claim that Kylo was lying I’ll be very upset. I thought this aspect of the story was the single best choice made in the script.
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"Star Wars taught me I'm worthless, because my daddy is an average Joe." - said no one ever. :rolleyes:

All SW fans know power isn't just bloodline, because we've seen it. Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace Windu, even non-canon fan favourites like Revan... I don't know why some people now want to argue that power through bloodline is somehow a bad message, as if SW was ever giving reasons to think that's the only thing which makes you powerful. The two concepts (bloodline vs nobody) can very well exist together. Family and inherited power have always been kind of a big deal in the OT and I haven't seen anyone protesting.

It's good that Rey comes from nowhere, I've always thought it's the best option. But it has to be addressed that she's special. Her power can't be the new standard Force potential, she's too strong. In a way TLJ touches on it. Luke says he has seen this raw strength only once before - in Ben Solo. I'd be cool with Rey being something like an emissary of the light side chosen by the Force to stand against Snoke and Kylo. Again, they hint at it: "darkness rises and light to meet it."
 
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soundwave said:
Saw it. Still digesting. I had a weird reaction to it.......I simultaneously enjoyed it/disliked it:

  • The Leia 'Mary Poppins flying back to the ship' was ridiculous. I get what Johnson was trying to do by showing Leia's power, but it looked so cheesy on screen the way they did it.
  • I related to Luke's story - having personally shifted from student/mentor, subordinate/boss, child/parent in my own life, and realizing that it's not all a bed of roses and coping with failures after successes...I actually liked his struggle. It's not often that we see our heroes after they ride off into the sunset and I liked it wasn't all peachy. It was pretty ballsy of Johnson to do that with such a beloved figure. At the end of the OT, Luke was basically the lord/savior of the galaxy (and was deified by 30+ subsequent years of video games/comics/books) that it was interesting to see him be made vulnerable.
  • I loved Yoda's "learned nothing did you, dumbass?" speech.
  • I really, really wanted Anakin's ghost to show up and counsel Luke, or do something to piss off Snoke/Ren...even if it's just a 15 second cameo. The story just begged for it.
  • Rey's parents...gah. I don't have a problem with them being 'pedestrians' (in some ways, it's better), but I do have a problem with the lack of continuity/ mystery from TFA. Why have the entire tantalizing lightsaber connection/departing spaceship dream sequence if you're going to just flush it down the toilet in the next movie? Not to mention that Disney/Abrams have been teasing it since the release of TFA. What a let down...unless it was all a ruse by Ren...or he doesn't have the full story either. If it stands, this is a classic "Chekhov's gun" rule violation.
  • I wanted to learn more about the Knights of Ren - grrrr....maybe the next movie.
  • I wanted to learn more about Snoke, but I loved the way that he arrogantly thought he had it all figured out and then Ren deceived him. The resulting fight was great.
  • The casino planet subplot was underwhelming. It did ultimately allow Finn/Rose to infiltrate the First Order, but it felt rushed/underdeveloped (if that's possible in a nearly three hour movie).
  • Phasma...c'mon. Underutilized once again.
  • Didn't care for the 'Luke Illusion' ploy - Ren couldn't figure that out the second that Luke emerged from the barrage of laser fire from a dozen AT-ATs? The Force power itself was cool though.
  • They clearly had no overarching story for this trilogy...there is no obvious major cliff-hanger to resolve (ESB left us with the pending confrontation with Vader and the rescue of Han). Where does JJ pick up from here? This was really almost written as the finale.
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We're mostly on the same page.
 
Srogyy said:
"Star Wars taught me I'm worthless, because my daddy is an average Joe." - said no one ever. :rolleyes:

All SW fans know power isn't just bloodline, because we've seen it. Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace Windu, even non-canon fan favourites like Revan... I don't know why some people now want to argue that power through bloodline is somehow a bad message, as if SW was ever giving reasons to think that's the only thing which makes you powerful. The two concepts (bloodline vs nobody) can very well exist together. Family and inherited power have always been kind of a big deal in the OT and I haven't seen anyone protesting.

It's good that Rey comes from nowhere, I've always thought it's the best option. But it has to be addressed that she's special. Her power can't be the new standard Force potential, she's too strong. In a way TLJ touches on it. Luke says he has seen this raw strength only once before - in Ben Solo. I'd be cool with Rey being something like an emissary of the light side chosen by the Force to stand against Snoke and Kylo. Again, they hint at it: "darkness rises and light to meet it."
Click to expand...

I couldn't care less about the bloodlines. What I'm saying is bloodlines would make sense in Rey's case. Yoda, Obi-Wan, etc. weren't powerful out of dumb luck. They WORKED at it, trained. Even Luke had to train, Anakin for Shinobi's sake had to train as well. So why the fuck doesn't Rey? Oh that's right, the script says she's a badass just cuz and I have to swallow it. And I know, "but she did train with Luke." That doesn't explain why she is so powerful by default. Did we all forget she was able to defy Kylo in FA without any training?
 
What about a new vergence in the Force centred around a person as a means to explain Rey? She could be Leia's (and nobody else's) and been hidden from birth because Leia realised it was significant. Or rejected by her nobody parents because of the phenomenon. Ren might not have been lying, but mistaken - seeing only Rey's thoughts and fears, which he's mistaken for the truth./SPOILER]
 
Mosh said:
It's weird. I laughed at most of the jokes, but at the same time I felt like many of them seemed very out of place. I also thought a lot of the humor was poorly timed.
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The milk gag was the worst, but it went past all my defenses and I had tears in my eyes. Even if I'd like to dislike it, I simply can not. I love it.
 
Yea, that's pretty much where I was with most of the gags.

My biggest concern is that repeated viewings of the movie will be soured by gags that are probably not going to still be funny the 2nd or 3rd times. I suppose I'll only know how much the humor affects my enjoyment of the film at that point.
 
Here are my stupid thoughts:

I loved the movie. I thought they did a pretty good giving so many characters story arcs to deal with. Its hard to get that much action in a movie. Just think back to the original Star Wars, it was pretty much Luke, Han, and Leia-- Vader was just 'there' as was Tarkin. Obi-wan was there, but only to prop up Luke. This one had lots happening and I liked it.
Loved the Luke-Kylo(Ben) bit. I like that we see what pushed Kylo over from two different perspectives. I think Mark Hamill was the bomb in this movie-- his acting was amazing and he killed it.

It made me think of what the prequels should have been-- I wanted Anakin to be more like Kylo-- not just a whiney bitch. :)

Overall, I like what they have done-- killing off one of the 'original 3' in each movie so far-- and we know what must come in the last one. I like how Rey is a mix of Luke and Han, and how she fits into everything. I'm ok with her being just another Jedi-- there were thousands of them, so someone just popping up out of the blue is cool.

I have to be honest-- Kylo has never felt like the 'bad guy' in all of this. I see him wanting to be. I see him being a pawn, but he isn't pure bad like Vader seemed to be. I love how he gets so single-minded that he wants to kick Luke's ass above and beyond everything. He seems to be the flip side to Poe in that-- not a great leader, but a 'hot dog' trying to do the 'one thing' that looks big, instead of the many things that ARE big.

Anyway, just my random thoughts
 
7.6 on the IMDB. As "good" as Revenge of the Sith (@Maturin). Looking forward to see Jedi tonight.

And on the IMDB
Maturin said:
IMDB has an undisclosed weighting system.
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Yep.

How do you calculate the rating displayed on a film or show page?
We take all the individual ratings cast by IMDb registered users and use them to calculate a single rating. We don't use the arithmetic mean of the ratings (although we do display the mean and average votes on the votes breakdown) -- the rating displayed on a film's page is a weighted average. To display the detailed votes breakdown, click the number located directly below the average IMDb user rating. For an example, see the User rating breakdown for Inside Out.

What does 'weighted average' mean?
IMDb publishes weighted vote averages rather than raw data averages. Various filters are applied to the raw data in order to eliminate and reduce attempts at vote stuffing by people more interested in changing the current rating of a movie than giving their true opinion of it. The exact methods we use will not be disclosed. This should ensure that the policy remains effective. The result is a more accurate vote average.

The average rating on film or show is wrong. Is your math off?
The rating displayed is correct -- please remember that the rating is weighted. We do not simply calculate the average by adding up all the votes and dividing the total by the number of votes.

To prevent abuse and minimize attempts to stuff the ballot or otherwise influence the integrity of the voting system, we do not reveal any details about how weighted ratings are calculated other than what is already documented. However please rest assured that there is no bias involved. The same criteria are uniformly used to calculate all the ratings for all the movies in the database.

And much more explanations: https://help.imdb.com/article/imdb/track-movies-tv/faq-for-imdb-ratings/G67Y87TFYYP6TWAV#


And on Rotten Tomatoes @Night Prowler :
Rotten Tomatoes is a critics-powered site. The opinion of the average cinema-goer is not taken into account. If the critics like the film, the film gets a fresh rating (above 60%) or else it is doomed to rot in the rotten category. This rating is a general average of the ratings from all the critics registered with the site. There are a few prerequisites to become a critic with Rotten Tomatoes, which include being a writer for a major media organisation. Now I’m not going to rant about the bias of film critics or cook up conspiracy theories about critics being paid to give good reviews. I’ll simply ask you this, should the opinion of around 200 people be considered over the opinion of more than 1 million people?
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I immediately say no, but you might want to read on here.
https://www.thecinemaholic.com/imdb-or-rotten-tomatoes-whose-ratings-should-you-trust/

+
found this pretty convincing comment about Rotten Tomatoes:
The way that Rotten Tomatoes takes into account percentages is completely flawed. The score is based on the percentage of critics who liked the movie and not a percentage of the overall quality of the movie, like IMDb. This means if 20 critics say that a movie was "pretty good", it'll have a 100% rating. Check Rotten Tomatoes list of top movies of all time and compare it with IMDb's top 250. You'll see that Rotten Tomatoes' list is terrible in comparison. I agree that IMDb's method is not perfect, but it is the best system we have as of now.[/quoted]
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