Official Star Wars Thread

CriedWhenBrucieLeft

Meme Only Account
Peter Jackson used a technique like this wonderfully in the Hobbit franchise (the story that unfolds on screen is what Bilbo wrote in the book and Frodo reads, not the real events that transpired in the same world as Lord of the Rings, which helps explain the disconnection between the two). The story of Lord of the Rings that the audience sees is what Frodo wrote in the Red Book.
I don't want to be a pendant, but that "wonderful" framing device was Tolkien's; Peter Jackson simply used it.
(I'm sure you know that; but just in case others don't.)
 

Liveone

Nomad
The exact same thing happened when the Phantom Menace was released.
Most initial film critics gave it rave reviews. Then people started to realise the movie had major flaws and it's star faded.
It will be exactly the same with The Force Awakens. People will begin to see that it is all smoke and mirrors and that the masses have been royally conned.
JJ Abrams isn't entirely to blame either. He was only doing what the executives at Disney told him to do i.e. play it safe.
They should have used the story treatments they were given by George Lucas and then it would have been amazing (AND ORIGINAL!)
 

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
It will be exactly the same with The Force Awakens. People will begin to see that it is all smoke and mirrors and that the masses have been royally conned.
$10 says that won't happen, and that by the time Episode VIII is released its Rotten Tomatoes scores will be within 5% of where they are now.
 

Liveone

Nomad
Found George Lucas' Maidenfans account.

I'm sure GL is probably a fan of Maiden but no I am not him.
Wish I had his money!

Seriously though I can see why people would enjoy TFA.
It's harmless fun and one doesn't really have to think very much.
Ergo it is perfectly suitable for today's film audience.
Just not my cup of tea...
 

JudasMyGuide

the Office Block Persecution Affinity CEO
I got what I wanted - an adventure movie (a somewhat dying genre, methinks). I had fun and I know I would have had fun if I had seen the movie as a kid. But then again, I liked the prequels. I even - gasp - liked Attack of the Clones (which is probably my #2, right behind Empire). So what do I know? Daisy Ridley is ridiculously cute, though. I would go see it again if only for her.

I agree the "meta" aspect feels somewhat weird.
 

Black Bart

Ancient Mariner
I saw it for the first time yesterday and I liked it.

It's not a comedy ffs...
Well, in my opinion, it is. In a broader, "Antique" sense where the ending and the instances of comic relief make up for the characters' peripeteia . The comical element, as long as it is well dosed-out (and I think it is in TFA), is essential to Star Wars and contributes to make the whole story interesting and less geek-exclusive (come on, the story takes place in SPACE... taking it too seriously would be beside the whole spirit of the saga in my opinion).

my favorite moment is when and how the Falcon Millenium is made to appear - it actually moved me more than Han and Chewie's first appearance... funny how one can be moved by an object! ;)

The various hints to the first trilogy (IV V VI) are, once again, well proportioned in my opinion and, as a musician, I particularly enjoyed the house band in the pub/castle.

As far as the actors are concerned, I have particularly liked the ones playing Rey, Poe (whose looks seem to be coming straight from the 70s) and, to a lesser degree, Finn. I am not as convinced by the one playing Kylo Ren - though I didn't expect his killing of Han Solo, which is a good thing. Not only do I hope those two will grow on me but I also think they are going to be made "deeper" in future episodes. As regards the actors from the first trilogy, Ford does a good job (unsurpisingly; I particularly liked when he said "Ah! Fugitives" when he catches Finn and Rey - a wink to his own career? ;) ), Carrie Fischer -whose eyes are still recognizable despite her facelift- does well too but she has never had a lot to do in the SW franchise, and the one playing C3PO has -I think- the funniest line in the film: "You may not recognize me because of my red arm" (or close to it).

I rarely go and see movies more than once (I didn't for the prequels and was too young when the first trilogy was released - b. 1981) but I think I will make an exception this time. ;)
 
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Mosh

Winner of the 2020 Dumbest Comment Ever Award
Staff member
I think the complaints about the humor in the movie are a direct result of the main characters in the prequels having no sense of humor whatsoever. They don't act like real people with real emotions in those movies and now that we're seeing characters who act like real people again, it's actually kind of jarring. It definitely felt strange to me at first, but as I settled into the movie and thought about the personalities and humor of the OT characters, it all seemed much more natural. But the humor is more appropriate for today's movies, as opposed to the more campy humor of 1977.
 

Black Bart

Ancient Mariner
I think the complaints about the humor in the movie are a direct result of the main characters in the prequels having no sense of humor whatsoever.
Except for the interplay (sometimes, I admit, a bit forced) between Qui-Gong and Obi-Wan.
 

Maturin

Sköldpadda
I think the complaints about the humor in the movie are a direct result of the main characters in the prequels having no sense of humor whatsoever. They don't act like real people with real emotions in those movies and now that we're seeing characters who act like real people again, it's actually kind of jarring. It definitely felt strange to me at first, but as I settled into the movie and thought about the personalities and humor of the OT characters, it all seemed much more natural. But the humor is more appropriate for today's movies, as opposed to the more campy humor of 1977.

You mean they don't act like the people of western culture today are expected to act. You don't need to travel that far to reach a culture where people are more reluctant to display emotions, to smile or to laugh openly. Hell, there are even such cultures on Earth! Ever been to Japan? Westerners typically find them odd. Americans find Swedish people cold, Swedish people find the British extremely polite. Jarring, even. (I can testify to that last part.)

Does this mean that one of these aren't real people? Of course not! They've just grown up and learned to behave in different manners. Is it actually more likely for a Jedi who've grown up in what is really more like an Eastern-inspired, strictly formal religious faith to behave like someone who grew up in Texas? (Yee-haw!) Or, you know, wouldn't that person behave strangely to us westerners because of how different a society shaped him/her?

Just a few thoughts.
 

Mosh

Winner of the 2020 Dumbest Comment Ever Award
Staff member
You mean they don't act like the people of western culture today are expected to act. You don't need to travel that far to reach a culture where people are more reluctant to display emotions, to smile or to laugh openly. Hell, there are even such cultures on Earth! Ever been to Japan? Westerners typically find them odd. Americans find Swedish people cold, Swedish people find the British extremely polite. Jarring, even. (I can testify to that last part.)

Does this mean that one of these aren't real people? Of course not! They've just grown up and learned to behave in different manners. Is it actually more likely for a Jedi who've grown up in what is really more like an Eastern-inspired, strictly formal religious faith to behave like someone who grew up in Texas? (Yee-haw!) Or, you know, wouldn't that person behave strangely to us westerners because of how different a society shaped him/her?

Just a few thoughts.

This argument doesn't work for two reasons:

  1. You're implying that only the Jedi act like this, I wasn't talking about just the Jedi. Padme is also without a personality or sense of humor, but why? She's a politician who lives in a city planet that is very much designed similarly to something you would see in the Western world. And this goes for the other members of the Republic as well. They all have the same monotone expressions and emotionless dialog during senate hearings. If this was just limited to the Jedi, then I would see your point and it could've actually worked well as a stark contrast between the Jedi and the Republic, as well as really driving home their dogmatic tendencies that eventually lead to their downfall. I don't think we're seeing an Eastern inspired culture as much as we're seeing the result of poor dialog and wooden acting.
  2. This is inconsistent with the OT. In the OT, the characters have emotions, they joke around and make sarcastic comments. They act in a very "western culture" sort of way. Even Yoda and Obiwan aren't nearly as wooden as they are in the prequels, despite being a bit more stoic than the other characters. Not all that much time has passed between the two trilogies, surely not enough for such an intense cultural shift.
This isn't a cultural clash and if it is then George Lucas did a poor job executing it.
 

SinisterMinisterX

Illuminatus
Staff member
He wouldn't need the mask as a ghost, though. Would be more interesting if he was just an evil looking human, like in RotS before Obi-Wan did the slicer-dicer thing.
 

SinisterMinisterX

Illuminatus
Staff member
So basically, if J.J. Abrams isn't prepared to run this fully... By which I mean, take away everything that's unrealistic according to the naturalistic movement, rely fully on science and make it a hard work of science fiction that explains the myth of Luke Skywalker... this doesn't work for me. The Force can not be real. It's myth, and as such it's a metaphor to explain something else.

Ladies and gentlemen of Maidenfans, we have now officially reached the point where I advise all forum members to stop replying to this troll. He is clearly not on the same page as the rest of civilization, and filling this thread with trying to talk sense into Maturin is getting really, really old.

Maturin, you're free to think as you like, but at this point you're also trolling here. We've banned other members, like PlayClassics, for less. The ice is getting thinner.
 

JudasMyGuide

the Office Block Persecution Affinity CEO
Ladies and gentlemen of Maidenfans, we have now officially reached the point where I advise all forum members to stop replying to this troll. He is clearly not on the same page as the rest of civilization, and filling this thread with trying to talk sense into Maturin is getting really, really old.

Maturin, you're free to think as you like, but at this point you're also trolling here. We've banned other members, like PlayClassics, for less. The ice is getting thinner.

Now, though I might not agree with him, I don't think he's trolling and I kind of get what he's trying to say.

That is - I realise that trying to inject realism into Star Wars (which was always myth-operatic) might seem silly. I just don't think VII adds that much realism in the long run. However, Maturin seems to think the film straddles the fence - trying to be more realistic, yet trying to be somewhat mythical as well, and he seems not to like it and would be more happy if the film chose one direction and went fully that way (which is a valid point, even if I don't agree with that). Okay. I don't see any trolling here.
 
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CriedWhenBrucieLeft

Meme Only Account
Maturin, you're free to think as you like, but at this point you're also trolling here. We've banned other members, like PlayClassics, for less. The ice is getting thinner.
You're going to ban him for not liking Star Wars? :blink:
Now, though I might not agree with him, I don't think he's trolling and I kind of get what he's trying to say.
I don't see any trolling here.
Yip, I don't see any trolling either...
 
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