Official Hockey discussion thread

bearfan said:
I think they have a foundation of a decent team and a ton of cap space (and probably some trades to make) to get better. Question is how much.

I did like the Octopus making the pick from Detroit though
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The only question mark I see is goaltending... Out of ALL the goalies out there they went for two no-name back-ups/depth goalies. They are either banking on potential or they'll trade for something better. I like their Defensemen. So yeah, decent team indeed.

Shame about Weber. I still don't like Drouin, from his hissy-fit in Tampa to now... he hasn't really delivered.
 
Yesterday was a very interesting and, uh, unfortunately, terrible, day in the game of hockey. There were five really crazy trades and a very, very horrible draft pick.

The trades:
Buffalo trades terrible overpaid defenseman Rasmus Ristolainen to the Flyers for a 1st this year and a 2nd next year, plus a body. Ristolainen has been one of the worst defensemen in the league and he's under contract for one year at about $6 million; recently, the Flyers paid the Coyotes to take their underperforming D Gostisbehere who does the same things but better. Absolutely insane. Great for Buffalo though - they used the 1st they got to pick Isek Rosen, a nice goal scoring winger.

The Blues acquire very good top six winger Pavel Buchnevich in return for a 4th liner and a 2nd next year. Very reasonable rate for a guy who can step in and take Tarasenko's minutes when he is traded. A very good trade for the Blues. The Rangers are clearing cap space, probably to take a run at Eichel (and better afford that stupid Barclay Goodrow contract).

The Vancouver Canucks dump all their 1 year shit salaries (Loui Eriksson, Jay Beagle, Antoine Roussel), a 1st, 2nd, and 7th, to get 6 years of Oliver Ekman-Larsson and the RFA rights to Conor Garland. Garland is good! He'll cost them $5 million a year and if he finds chemistry with Elias Pettersson that's really, really fantastic for them. OEL is very bad, he has been bad in sheltered minutes, and they are paying all but a million of his 8.3 million dollar deal. A terrible trade for the Canucks, who currently have 19.2 million dollars, or a quarter of their cap, locked up in 3 defensemen aged 30 or 31 who combined last year for -0.7 WAR last year.

Chicago swaps Adam Boqvist, a very good young player, their 1st this year, their 1st next year and their 2nd this year to Columbus for Seth Jones, their 1st this year, and a 6th. They then negotiate a buyout-proof 8 year extension at 9.5 million a year that will make him the second highest paid D in the NHL. Jones has been not great of late and the advanced stats show a guy getting caved. Maybe he bounces back but this could be a boat anchor of a contract.

Florida acquires Sam Reinhart from Buffalo. Still waiting on the trade call but Buffalo is getting a goalie prospect, a 1st, and some conditional picks. Reinhart was #2 in the draft where Florida got Aaron Ekblad. They also recently traded for the #4 pick from that year, Sam Bennett, who had a great run with them at the end of the last season.

The draft pick:
At the draft, it was pretty by-the-numbers until Montreal drafted Logan Mailloux, a young man recently convicted of distributing intimate images without consent in Sweden. Mailloux had withdrawn from the draft, and I'm pretty fucking pissed at Montreal for drafting this kid. He tried to blame the victim rather than just give her an apology (excellent Strang article in The Athletic here: https://theathletic.com/2716093/202...-sweden-all-i-wanted-was-a-heartfelt-apology/) and doesn't seem to have grown at all. Disgusting pick and given that Marc Bergevin should be trying to avoid controversy given that he was in Chicago during their recently revealed scandal, just dumb all around.
 
Ristolinen being terrible isn't all on him. General consensus is Buffalo failed him AND Dahlin. They failed to develop them.

Boston signed hall to a decent amount of time and money. If Krejci returns we officially have two good lines.
 
The Vegas Golden Knights have reached a deal with the Blackhawks to trade Marc-Andre Fleury to the Chicago in exchange for forward Mikael Hakkarainen, a source tells The Athletic. The deal is pending trade calls.

Pure salary dump by Vegas, Fleury and Lankanin looks like a pretty decent combo in goal with hopefully a much better D in front of them from last year.
 
Fleury might retire rather than go. Which, I mean, if I was Fleury I would only want to go to a contender, which Chicago is not.
 
LooseCannon said:
Fleury might retire rather than go. Which, I mean, if I was Fleury I would only want to go to a contender, which Chicago is not.
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Possibility for sure .. but worth a shot. Him in net with other moves and returning players from injury I think at least makes the Hawks a playoff contender
 
How to treat the face of your franchise:

Exhibit A: Vegas, Trade them for basically nothing and let them find out through Twitter.

Exhibit B: Washington, sign him to a five year, 9.5M per even though he's 36.
 
I am kind of surprised Vegas did not inform him. I get they were having some issues from last season and Lehner, but he was clearly a massive reason for their earlier success and I would at least pro-forma want to "do the right things", if anything for the message it sends to other current or potential future players.
 
Salary dump or not.... Wtf Vegas? He's the face of the team, he just won the Vezna, He is a season away from surpassing Roy in all-time wins, he is HAPPY being there, which is a lot considering half of Buffalo hates being there, Tarasenko is very unhappy in St Louis, Toronto constantly has player drama, etc. So again... WTF Vegas!?
 
This is what happens when you sign a contract that is unrealistic in money and term. Part of it is that the cap is flat for two seasons now, of course. But so many teams overpay guys based on what they already did, not on what they might reasonably do. It's ludicrous.
 
He did take them to the finals and are a perennial playoff contender AND just won best goalie.... One year left on contract... How is this ludicrous?
 
When he signed that deal he was nowhere near what he'd become. Fleury had a hell of a year but he's old, one of the oldest players in the league, and time comes for us all. They signed Lehner clearly with the intent of moving Fleury, and then Fleury went on a heater. But you can't pay players for what they previously did.
 
A few possibilities .. and I think all work out for the Hawks if he makes a decision fairly soon

1) He plays a season in Chicago, splits time with Lankanin in some fashion and makes them a better team. All 4 goalies (Lankanin, Fluery, Subban, and Delia's contracts expire after this season, they re-sign Lankanin and/or a vet backup/1B type goalie). Plus Subban might have some low level trade value .. he is on a good contract and a decent backup

2) He retires, no cap hit for the Hawks, what they traded away was a really low prospect .. so they clear a contract and according to the Athletic, Vegas would send something over to the Hawks (7th rounder, another low level prospect) .. they are in the same position they were before, maybe slightly better

3) Reunion in Pitt. Hawks trade him there, use some of their LTIR to retain a big chunk of salary for this season and get some assets back from Pitt, who clearly could use him given what happened with Jarry.

#2 and #3 were from the Athletic

Edit:

4) Do #1 and if they fall out of contention, he would be someone they could flip (retaining salary) at the deadline.
 
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LooseCannon said:
When he signed that deal he was nowhere near what he'd become. Fleury had a hell of a year but he's old, one of the oldest players in the league, and time comes for us all. They signed Lehner clearly with the intent of moving Fleury, and then Fleury went on a heater. But you can't pay players for what they previously did.
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Ok, we need to get on the same page here, because I feel we agree, but are misunderstanding each other over simple wording.

Players get signed on TWO conditions, what they have done (reputation) and potential (what they can continue to do). NHL rookies get entry level contracts between (last I saw anyway) 600K-950k for three years. Based on your performance in the minors/college/European leagues (what they have done/reputation/consistency/whatever you want to label it) and where they get picked in the draft dictates the amount of said contract. Normally first rounders and especially top 10 picks get the higher end of the spectrum. Once the entry level contract expires they can re-up. This next contract is offered, AGAIN based on what they DID (again as a baseline of consistency/potential growth) AND what they can continue to deliver (either a baseline consistent production OR potentially explode into a superstar). Your Crosbys and McDavids and Matthews get top dollar, mostly banking on insane growth. So I don't know why you're so critical on players being signed on what they DID if it is a big factor in what can be expected.

I assume that is, because that only remains true until a player turns 28. After that the "promise" is gone. You can no longer sign them on "potential," you can only hope they can CONTINUE at the pace they've settled on. Like Ovie scoring 40+ goals consistently well into his 30s.

Fleury was already 32 when he was picked by Vegas. Goalies as a whole get a little more leyway on the age factor, so not THAT big of a deal. Sure he was picked for what he DID (win 3 stanley cups), but I'm sure Vegas was hoping for him to AT LEAST stay consistent. His season stats are good, not great, but good. his lowest SV% was a .905 and his highest GAA was a 2.77. His lowest Games won was 26 and his highest 35. They went to the final in their first season, have been cup contenders every season and honestly, media aside, I've never seen their exits as HIS fault. I would say he delivered his end of the deal. So this is what he IS DOING (not DID) in Vegas... as in currently, not the three cups in Pittsburgh, his CURRENT contract with Vegas. He definitely deserved a fucking phone call at the least and honestly he deserved to play out his last season of his contract with Vegas.
 
When Fleury signed the contract was widely considered too much money and too long term for a guy who was supposed to be getting close to being cooked. He's not, and good on him - but the contract, when it was signed, was a bad deal. Fleury lived up to it, so far - that's cool! It's rare!

Most goalies are done by 32. Sorry, it's just true. Bobrovsky, Holtby, Price, all of them took huge dips as they progressed through their 30s. Some guys have good years as they go down - Smith, Fleury, etc - but it's really rare. Most hockey players are toast by 32. That's just how it is now.
 
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