Official Hockey discussion thread

Osgood was "good" at best, any claim as to being "clutch" is ridiculous. As LC said, he was lucky to have really good teams in front of him.
 
Another point I don't like in this whole Osgood is a Hall of Famer discussion is his 3 Stanley Cups. One (1997) he was the back-up and in 2009 he came off the bench to take over for Hasek. That is not to mention that he wasn't even on Detroit's 2002 Championship team. He was a soild goalie, but you don't go looking to replace a Hall of Famer (even if it is another HoFer that replaced him).
 
Well I think the whole mention of Stanley Cups is stupid, regardless.  I mean, Joe Nieuwendyk only got into the HoF because he won 3 Cups.  It should be about the player, not the teams he played on.

I mean, if your argument for Osgood is "3 Cups", I don't know how you can't allow Kris Draper into the Hall of Fame, because he has four.  No one would ever dream of letting a thoroughly average forward or defenceman into the Hall of Fame, but it's permissible for a goalie.

By my calculations, Osgood has let in 9 more goals over his career than the average goalie would've (varies season-to-season; most of his years in the 90s he was slightly above average save percentage wise, but he had some truly abominable years towards the end of his career).

93-94: 0
94-95: +8
95-96: +15
96-97: +6
97-98: +11
98-99: +3
99-00: +4
00-01: 0
01-02: +3
02-03: -19
03-04: -1
05-06: -3
06-07: +1
07-08: +5
08-09: -26
09-10: -13
10-11: -3


Can you imagine a forward getting in who scored 9 less points than the average forward over his career?  It wouldn't happen.  It wouldn't even be debated.  Osgood was not even an average goaltender (let alone an average starter) over his career, while playing for some of the best defensive teams in the league.  Anyone who thinks he deserves to get into the Hall of Fame has absolutely no clue about hockey, let alone separating individual performance from team performance.
 
I don't think Osgood deserves it, either. He has really nothing in the way of hardware. Yeah, he was an okay goalie, and that's all a fantastic team needs. But he didn't shine on bad teams, like some stellar goalies have (Vokoun). He was never outstanding. "Consistently acceptable" may have been a reason to get in the HoF back in the 1960s when there was only 6 teams and 120 players in the NHL, but in this day and age? Nah.
 
Hawks  signed Patrick Sharp to a 5 year extension.  That pretty much locks up the core players for the next several seasons (Toewes, Kane, Sharp, Keith) ... good move.
 
I've been reading the 30 in 30 and Boston's "outlook" had them locked for a strong chance at repeating. I say nay, because Crosby will be healthy, so will Malkin, Washington got better, Tampa Locked their good players, but I don't trust Smith in net. New Jersey looks like they got their act together, so Boston has quite the mountain to climb to be the first team to repeat since Detroit.
 
To fill in during the quietest time of the year.
Who did the most to improve themselves?
Who seems to have regressed?
 
I think Florida did the most to improve themselves, whether they did or not we will see and I do not consider them a contender. Who Placed themselves in Cup contending territory? Just by signing Voukun my vote goes to Washington, regardless of yet another roster overhaul. Who regressed? Vancouver. They did a few deals to replace players that left, but no major overhaul. IF and only IF the same team can make it to the Final again, I think they regressed.
 
Boston's regressed, mostly because Thomas probably won't play near as well as the year previous, and they haven't brought in anyone else to make up for that.
 
They don't have to since they already have the leagues best back up in Rask. But I do agree they should have made more moves. Nothing guarantees Savard's return which is what would make them better.
 
Onhell said:
They don't have to since they already have the leagues best back up in Rask. But I do agree they should have made more moves. Nothing guarantees Savard's return which is what would make them better.
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But even if both goalies combine for ~0.920, which is very good, that erases most of their goal differential (I think it was +52), because Tim Thomas played 46 goals above average (0.938 vs. 0.913) in a little less than 60 games.  That would mean they'd end up with around a +15 goal differential (assuming overall shooting environment is similar, and their shots against/game stays around the same).  That probably puts them in the 5-7 slot in the East, if their offence is just as productive next year.
 
LooseCannon said:
GP, do you do statistics work for TSN or something?
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Hah.  I wish.  Most hockey commentators could use a little insight before they go spouting off drivel.  I don't know how it would work ratings-wise; I'm sure a large segment of the population would prefer hearing that "The Sedins haven't learned how to win" rather than an explanation of sample sizes.

No, I just have a calculator.  And it's a far better indicator of the way things are than most subjective analysis.  The history of the Vezina Trophy shows that, at the very least.
 
Well, you seem to like statistics more than I do, and that's saying something, so I thought I'd ask. I figured TSN has a guy who just does math so Bob McKenzie can ignore it on the air.
 
I think the Panthers will be better, but not a playoff team. Same for CBus. And the kings look to be better on paper.
Washington did a good job filling in the bottom half of their roster, and so did Chicago.
Rangers added Richards without sacrificing anyone, and Sabres definitely improved.
But the team that improved the most was Pittsburgh, just because their key guys are going to be healthy.
 
Good point GP. And I agree with Pittsburgh's key guys coming back as a big plus. To be honest pittsburgh's been due for another cup, but either Malkin underperforms or is hurt along with Crosby... Can't wait to see what they do next season.
 
I think Washington and Pittsburgh are the clearly superior teams in the East.  Pittsburgh's biggest problem is their goalie, and Washington's is their offence (though I would not be surprised if their key players have a bounce back year).  Regardless, I'd be surprised if either of them don't win their division.
 
I definitely agree there. Washington has gone a long way towards stabilizing their goaltending with the addition of Vokoun. It makes them the odds-on favourites in the east. If Ovechkin and Semin get rolling as well...
 
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