Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Jordan said:Then what should I call it?
You should call it Handegg:
Official Football Thread
- Thread starter national acrobat
- Start date
You should call it Handegg:
Kopfanatic
Trooper
Well,its looks like Uniteds title. Liverpool blew it yesterday with their inability to finish.
As I've mentioned before, LFC's squad just isn't up to the challenge(and neither is the manager)
As I've mentioned before, LFC's squad just isn't up to the challenge(and neither is the manager)
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Hope you're right, Mr. Kopfanatic ... But nothing should be taken for granted. United have thrown good leads out the window before. 1998 springs to mind. Not to speak about 1992. I guess that's a year you remember with a little delight, as it was you who handed the title to Leeds ...
Your problem is that Rafa has built a team which is very hard to beat, but which lacks the capability to really go "all in" in matches like on Sunday. You dominate many games in terms of possession, but don't create really many big chances. Sometimes the opposition breaks down, but whenever they don't, there is a good chance the match will end in a draw.
United go to the throat when the match goes towards the end and the teams are level. Liverpool did it a few times in the first third of the season, but since early December they've been back to normal. Which means draws, lots of draws.
I read an interesting article yesterday illustrating Liverpool's dependency on Gerrard and Torres vs United's dependency on Rooney and Ronaldo. And that was nice reading for those who don't think Liverpool is a "two-man team". Liverpool have actually fared better without their two best players than United have without their two.
The article's here.
Now for something completely different
Tonight we have the first four 1/8-finals of the UEFA Champions League.
Atlético - Porto
The Spanish have only one win from their last 5 in the league and are currently 7th. Not the best sign before their encounter with Porto - who on their side have 4 wins and 1 draw in the last 5 and are top. With both teams in their best form, I would usually expect Atletico Madrid to win this. Tip: 1-1.
Lyon - Barcelona
Barcelona are the strongest team and one of the favourites for the trophy. Their impressive league form has taken a dip lately, but they are still capable of hammering anyone on a good day. Tip: 1-1 here as well, after all, Lyon are a good team and play at home.
Arsenal - Roma
Arsenal with plenty of crappy results in the league lately, but they produced some impressive results in the CL before Christmas even though their league form wasn't great. AS Roma have had some trouble on their trips to England lately
I give Arsenal a slight advantage, 2-1.
Internazionale - Man. United
Ahh, Mourinho vs Ferguson. Could be an epic battle. Mourinho had the upper hand on Ferguson in his time at Chelsea. In addition United have plenty of injury problems in the back four, and could end up playing Fabio, Rio, O'Shea and Rafael. Last time United went to Milano with a newly composed back four, it went really bad. I think Inter will take the advantage. 2-1. Then we'll see what United can do at Old Trafford in two weeks.
Could it be as exciting as the encounters between the two teams in 1999? I'm saving some fingernails for this game.
PS: Results and comments:
I was right on wit draws in the first two and a home win for Arsenal. United did better against Inter than I had feared, the first half was really good. I think the fact that Evans and Evra could play, was very important for the overall team performance. With 3/4 of a good PL back four in place, the team could be more daring in attack than if we had played with O'Shea as a central defender and the two youngsters on left and right.
For the home leg I see United as slight favourites (given no key players pick up injuries in the meantime ...)
Your problem is that Rafa has built a team which is very hard to beat, but which lacks the capability to really go "all in" in matches like on Sunday. You dominate many games in terms of possession, but don't create really many big chances. Sometimes the opposition breaks down, but whenever they don't, there is a good chance the match will end in a draw.
United go to the throat when the match goes towards the end and the teams are level. Liverpool did it a few times in the first third of the season, but since early December they've been back to normal. Which means draws, lots of draws.
I read an interesting article yesterday illustrating Liverpool's dependency on Gerrard and Torres vs United's dependency on Rooney and Ronaldo. And that was nice reading for those who don't think Liverpool is a "two-man team". Liverpool have actually fared better without their two best players than United have without their two.
The article's here.
Now for something completely different
Tonight we have the first four 1/8-finals of the UEFA Champions League.
Atlético - Porto
The Spanish have only one win from their last 5 in the league and are currently 7th. Not the best sign before their encounter with Porto - who on their side have 4 wins and 1 draw in the last 5 and are top. With both teams in their best form, I would usually expect Atletico Madrid to win this. Tip: 1-1.
Lyon - Barcelona
Barcelona are the strongest team and one of the favourites for the trophy. Their impressive league form has taken a dip lately, but they are still capable of hammering anyone on a good day. Tip: 1-1 here as well, after all, Lyon are a good team and play at home.
Arsenal - Roma
Arsenal with plenty of crappy results in the league lately, but they produced some impressive results in the CL before Christmas even though their league form wasn't great. AS Roma have had some trouble on their trips to England lately
I give Arsenal a slight advantage, 2-1.Internazionale - Man. United
Ahh, Mourinho vs Ferguson. Could be an epic battle. Mourinho had the upper hand on Ferguson in his time at Chelsea. In addition United have plenty of injury problems in the back four, and could end up playing Fabio, Rio, O'Shea and Rafael. Last time United went to Milano with a newly composed back four, it went really bad. I think Inter will take the advantage. 2-1. Then we'll see what United can do at Old Trafford in two weeks.
Could it be as exciting as the encounters between the two teams in 1999? I'm saving some fingernails for this game.
PS: Results and comments:
I was right on wit draws in the first two and a home win for Arsenal. United did better against Inter than I had feared, the first half was really good. I think the fact that Evans and Evra could play, was very important for the overall team performance. With 3/4 of a good PL back four in place, the team could be more daring in attack than if we had played with O'Shea as a central defender and the two youngsters on left and right.
For the home leg I see United as slight favourites (given no key players pick up injuries in the meantime ...)
Kopfanatic
Trooper
anaother good night for english football in Europe.I would now expect Man U to win at home against a disappointing Inter side, Arsenal to get a result at Roma, Liverpool to go on to gain a result at Anfield.The only uncertain one is Chelsea in Italy.Juve managed 17 shots at Stamford Bridge, and were unlucky not to leave with anything.
Torres worries me at the moment.I know he's been injured, but he's looking very petulant and disinterested.He's falling over very easily and doesn't look happy at all.
Torres worries me at the moment.I know he's been injured, but he's looking very petulant and disinterested.He's falling over very easily and doesn't look happy at all.
national acrobat
Ancient Mariner
Yep, looks like all the English teams will be going through. I hope that one of them (I don't mind which) gets a tonking from Barcelona in the next round.
Having said that I've probably just jinxed Barca who'll get knocked out by Lyon now
Having said that I've probably just jinxed Barca who'll get knocked out by Lyon now
Albie
Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
Foro, if Chelsea actually win the league this season, I will take my hat off to Hiddink - but in the form Man U have at the moment, coupled with their experience of winning leagues (in both manager and players), their goal difference and their points advantage, I can't see it happening.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Hiddink has had a good start, of course - but even if Chelsea win the remaining 11 games, United must lose 4 out of 12 for Chelsea to catch up. That's a collapse.
And to start analyzing Hiddink's stay at Chelsea based on the fact that they've climbed from 4th to 2nd (after two wins, out of which one was very much expected) seems a bit over-enthusiastic. Harry Redknapp's first weeks at Spurs saw them climb from 20th to 15th
One more: Distance from Chelsea to top, before Hiddink: 7 points with one more game played. Distance to top after 2 matches with Hiddink: 7 points, one more game played.
And to start analyzing Hiddink's stay at Chelsea based on the fact that they've climbed from 4th to 2nd (after two wins, out of which one was very much expected) seems a bit over-enthusiastic. Harry Redknapp's first weeks at Spurs saw them climb from 20th to 15th
One more: Distance from Chelsea to top, before Hiddink: 7 points with one more game played. Distance to top after 2 matches with Hiddink: 7 points, one more game played.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
My point exactly. However, I think Chelsea were on their way into a blind alley - and without fresh blood in the management they might just as well have lost to Villa, so credit to Hiddink for that.
Another trophy for Manchester United today. of course not the most prestigious one, but always nice to win - the game against Spurs today will not go down as great in the history books.
More remarkable: Atletico Madrid vs Barcelona, 4-3. I caught the last 30 minutes after returning from the pub, and what 30 minutes that turned out to be ... from 2-2 via 2-3 to 4-3! I guess the number of gray hairs in the city of Barcelona just exploded.
Another trophy for Manchester United today. of course not the most prestigious one, but always nice to win - the game against Spurs today will not go down as great in the history books.
More remarkable: Atletico Madrid vs Barcelona, 4-3. I caught the last 30 minutes after returning from the pub, and what 30 minutes that turned out to be ... from 2-2 via 2-3 to 4-3! I guess the number of gray hairs in the city of Barcelona just exploded.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Of course. I'm just saying, don't get too carried away with that. Chelsea were for example not very impressive against Juventus ... allright, they won, but Juve had a lot of chances and it could easily have been a draw (or even a Juve win).
Let's wait until this season is over before we judge Hiddink's results at Chelsea, shall we? It's only a little more than two months.
Let's wait until this season is over before we judge Hiddink's results at Chelsea, shall we? It's only a little more than two months.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Great game by Liverpool!
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I'll tell you that. I still have your previous remark (of which Eddies Wingman said "my point exactly" and he's the biggest Man U fan around) in my stomach. Either the remark was anti-Chelsea, either pro-Manchester United, or both.
Let me explain:
"The fact that Chelsea has climbed two places is more to do with the teams above 'em dropping points."
...doesn't sound that fair in my ears. Why? Earlier this season Manchester was not leading and later they climbed and took over the number one spot. This also had to do with other teams dropping points.
So, to say something like this for team A and not for team B means that you at least like (supporter or not) Manchester enough to not discredit them as much as (an)other team(s). That's why I thought you care for their results.
Sorry for being so direct, but I don't really know how to explain it more tactfully. I just want to be honest about it and clear it up.
Anyway, I just saw the match and United was very bad. The season is still very open.
Let me explain:
"The fact that Chelsea has climbed two places is more to do with the teams above 'em dropping points."
...doesn't sound that fair in my ears. Why? Earlier this season Manchester was not leading and later they climbed and took over the number one spot. This also had to do with other teams dropping points.
So, to say something like this for team A and not for team B means that you at least like (supporter or not) Manchester enough to not discredit them as much as (an)other team(s). That's why I thought you care for their results.
Sorry for being so direct, but I don't really know how to explain it more tactfully. I just want to be honest about it and clear it up.
Anyway, I just saw the match and United was very bad. The season is still very open.
Albie
Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
That remark was not pro-Man U or anti-Chelsea, but merely stating a fact. Why did I not say this about Man U as well? Probably becuase no-one got over excited about them getting to the top.
And I don't see what the issue is - I'm not a fan of Chelsea, never have been and have openly stated this several times in this thread. And so what if I would prefer Man U to win the league over Chelsea, nothing wrong with that and it's certainly not worth brooding over a comment I made a few weeks back that was not actually pro or anti anyone.
If I had made that remark about Chelsea pre-Hiddink, it is very likely that you would have not reacted to it at all - so you now favour Chelsea, but I don't see why I have to not say anything negative about them as well. Yes, I have a lot of respect for Hiddink, but I don't care enough for Chelsea to sway my opinion of them.
As for the season being open, Man U have ten games left and I reckon the only need to win 7 of them and draw one - which would not be that difficult for them (I doubt if both Chelsea and Liverpool win all their remaining 9) - so I don't think its that open. It's still Man U's too loose.
But i's far more important that Southend have won 8 out of their last ten games. Bang on form again at the right time of the season.
And I don't see what the issue is - I'm not a fan of Chelsea, never have been and have openly stated this several times in this thread. And so what if I would prefer Man U to win the league over Chelsea, nothing wrong with that and it's certainly not worth brooding over a comment I made a few weeks back that was not actually pro or anti anyone.
If I had made that remark about Chelsea pre-Hiddink, it is very likely that you would have not reacted to it at all - so you now favour Chelsea, but I don't see why I have to not say anything negative about them as well. Yes, I have a lot of respect for Hiddink, but I don't care enough for Chelsea to sway my opinion of them.
As for the season being open, Man U have ten games left and I reckon the only need to win 7 of them and draw one - which would not be that difficult for them (I doubt if both Chelsea and Liverpool win all their remaining 9) - so I don't think its that open. It's still Man U's too loose.
But i's far more important that Southend have won 8 out of their last ten games. Bang on form again at the right time of the season.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Terrible, terrible Saturday. A not too pleasant hangover and United's biggest defeat against Liverpool in ages. I don't want to talk any more about it. Liverpool took well care of the chances they got, credit to them for that.
Anyway, my (and I guess Albie's) comment which obviously has upset Forostar a great deal, was just to point out that although Hiddink had gotten a good start at Chelsea, he had brought them no closer to the top of the table in terms of distance to no. 1. And the fact that they climbed two places in two games, of what importance is that? Now he has continued the success, they are now three points closer. They have been so consistent lately that I see Chelsea as a bigger threat than Liverpool regarding the title race. Liverpool do have a very high highest level (as the last couple of matches have shown) but they are inconsistent. They will definitely not win the rest of the games. But I don't think Chelsea will, either. Despite Hiddink.
By the way, Forostar, what were your feelings towards Chelsea before Hiddink took over? I can only speak for myself, but having a Norwegian manager (or highly profiled player) at a club does really not change my emotions towards that club. Maybe it would stir more interest, but definitely not make me like the club more. For ezample, I don't care if Blackburn are relegated, despite them having Morten Gamst Pedersen in their team. And John Carew has nothing to do with me wanting to see Aston Villa finish ahead of Arsenal. And I had no warmer feelings for Liverpool during the years when John Arne Riise played there.
Anyway, my (and I guess Albie's) comment which obviously has upset Forostar a great deal, was just to point out that although Hiddink had gotten a good start at Chelsea, he had brought them no closer to the top of the table in terms of distance to no. 1. And the fact that they climbed two places in two games, of what importance is that? Now he has continued the success, they are now three points closer. They have been so consistent lately that I see Chelsea as a bigger threat than Liverpool regarding the title race. Liverpool do have a very high highest level (as the last couple of matches have shown) but they are inconsistent. They will definitely not win the rest of the games. But I don't think Chelsea will, either. Despite Hiddink.
By the way, Forostar, what were your feelings towards Chelsea before Hiddink took over? I can only speak for myself, but having a Norwegian manager (or highly profiled player) at a club does really not change my emotions towards that club. Maybe it would stir more interest, but definitely not make me like the club more. For ezample, I don't care if Blackburn are relegated, despite them having Morten Gamst Pedersen in their team. And John Carew has nothing to do with me wanting to see Aston Villa finish ahead of Arsenal. And I had no warmer feelings for Liverpool during the years when John Arne Riise played there.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Albie said:
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Comments like "they got up because others go down" undervalue all clubs, in all cases. Like a club doesn't have strength of its own, like a club does not deserve to be on a particular place on the rankings.
I do not intend to make a fuss. I respect your comment, you're free to say it. But I am entitled to speak out my opinion (which was also an explanation) on it which is also allowed on this forum, I reckon.
@EW: I just saw your post. Quick reaction: I have warm feelings for Dutch involvement in other clubs, yes. But the remark I am talking about has not much to do with it. I just explained that I find such remarks unfair in all cases (and especially when one of those matches was vs Aston Villa, a direct concurrent).
I like Hiddink, and for him, I'd like to see Chelsea winning the league. But for Van der Sar I'd like to see Manchester United win, and for Kuyt and Babel I'd like to see Liverpool win the league. So I am a happy man whatever may happen. I have never been a supporter of a foreign club, just for the club's sake. When I see two foreign clubs play, then I choose a favourite of course, but not the whole season.
So, we all look at football in a very different manner, that's what I learnt today.