Official Football Thread

Well I'm not that versed in definitions, I thought it originated in early 70s Netherlands and was picked up and perfected by coaches like Ivic. Seems it's an old approach that peaked in early 70s there (per wiki). So I probably made an error referring to "total football". He's credited for playing contemporary football (from the perspective of 2000s) back in the 70s. And coaches that made advancements in contemporary football credit him as inspiration for that kind of tactics.

Why I dragged him in tho, is that he was vanguard back in that age, by instructing players to bite like alligators and play zone protection ala handball. It was not that common, hence forwards of the old age did have it easier than those today.

Keep in mind when high press is done, the entire defending formation has to move back to its half. If high press is not done, defending team's attackers can shuffle on the center or even further, opening up and waiting for the interception/pass/counterstrike. Therefore if someone pressed (and had the skill to do so) Brazilians hard, Pele would have to be 40m from his own goal playing defensive tasks.
 
Yes it's also pretty different than what he and Mourinho did. Total football is position ambivalency resulting in backs or back midfielders having most of the skill and technicality of wingers attackers and playmakers. I believe Ajax also used this approach in mid-90s? They decimated Hajduk badly in Champions League quarters. I remember how De Boer on left back was a beast in acquiring free space in front of him. He also played midfield without any issues. It is really like best of football. On the contrary the "modern football" approach is about destruction and not allowing enemy any play. Maybe the best example of those dogmas clashing would be Mourinho vs Barcelona in late 2000s.
 
O man yeah... some lucky goals for Turkey, they were more effective and to be honest: some mistakes were made in our defense.
And Turkey had a great goalkeeper. I hope this can be set straight soon.
 
Don't know where else to put this, since we don't have a thread for the 2022 World Cup yet:

www.bbc.com

Germany players wear T-shirts in protest against Qatar's human rights record

Germany players wear T-shirts to show support for Qatar migrant workers before their 2022 World Cup qualifying win over Iceland on Thursday.
www.bbc.com

Sure it's with good intentions, wanting to show that they're not ignoring it, etc. But what will it matter in the end? The German team is still going to play in Qatar, it's still going to earn a lot of money for Qatar and FIFA, and people are still going to watch the World Cup and buy the products advertised there, all while saying "it's so terrible what happened to those poor workers there, when will the world listen?" The world will listen when they don't make any money off it anymore. That's when.
 
I'm afraid you're right that it won't change (soon)... Still it feels better than when all teams would not speak of it, show no feelings at all. Norway also protested. I hope for more, however hypocrite it may seem (to some). Let is be a little stain on the whiteclothed multibillionairs who enslaved (basically murdered thousands of poor workers). In our country there is a "debate" on what the players would do, but they need to get there as well.
 
I think it's hypocritical to protest against human rights abuse in Qatar while still declaring your intention to play there and support the money flow. No amount of feel-good gestures will bring the dead back or end slavery for those suffering now. If FIFA can live with the stain of perpetuating poverty and corruption in Brazil and supporting Putin's propaganda in Russia, they can live with the stain of some dead brown people in the Gulf.
 
Perun said:
If FIFA can live with the stain of perpetuating poverty and corruption in Brazil and supporting Putin's propaganda in Russia, they can live with the stain of some dead brown people in the Gulf.
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True.

The only thing that would make FIFA re-think anything is if high-profile countries, i.e. countries who might actually win the World Cup, said from the get go that "we will not participate if this issue is not dealt with". And that's not gonna happen because bread and circus.

There's much more to say about this, but that'll have to wait until after work ...
 
Yep, imagine Spain, France, Italy, Argentina, Germany and Brazil agreeing they'll sit this one out or do unofficial non-profit or charity matches somewhere else instead. But nah.
 
Perun said:
I think it's hypocritical to protest against human rights abuse in Qatar while still declaring your intention to play there and support the money flow.
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Yes but not entirely. Most if not all of the qualified football players have the aim to play on the greatest single sport event there is. For several it could be their only chance. This is a bigger motivation than supporting the money flow.

I would appreciate a cancelation of the tournament. I would appreciate it if a country would pull back. Or players. But would that change the situation in that barbaric region? Would the next projects in the Middle East be built in better conditions?

Can I enjoy this World Cup?
To be honest, probably yes. As soon as the whistle blows, there is the focus and desire to have a team win, to enjoy some beautiful football. It is good to have such good entertainment, if one really loves such events.

What I would not appreciate is a World Cup with censorship on what has happened. Imagine state media in Russia and China, nations who censor the fuck out of their own or eachother's malpractices, and who do not appreciate foreigners speaking of human rights, blocking every available opportunity to contribute in a positive manner and rather fill their pockets by politically influencing and spying om foreign nations, HAVING to show protesting footballers. I could enjoy that aspect. Voices of protest that cannot be controlled. A small spark in a dark matter.
 
I was writing this while you posted, @Forostar , but I think it works as a reply:
I'm not going to be "that guy" who's going to go around moralising every time somebody talks about the World Cup. I'm probably going to watch games myself, too. I'm not going to demand people put the weight of the world on their shoulders. I just wanted to comment on the statement of the German team and that I think it's meaningless.
 
A good thing you brought the whole thing up again. Last week I saw the hurt of parents in India getting their son back in a coffin. And the inside of some "houses" workers lived in.
 
Forostar said:
HAVING to show protesting footballers. I could enjoy that aspect. Voices of protest that cannot be controlled
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The problem in this regard is that FIFA will assist them in the censorship through their "no political statements please". When even what the Norwegian team did before the Gibraltar game raised concerns, think what a more direct statement could cause.
 
Perun said:
But what will it matter in the end?
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Enough breadcrumbs on the floor in the right place, one might slip and break his ass eventually...

Just a notion/affirmation that certain players are not 100% satisfied with the World Cup event, makes them less attractive for interviews, programs or any kind of a broadcast which isn't the game itself. Which potentially makes less money for the FIFA assholes.

It's not much, but it's honest work.
 
I mean, if we're serious about how something can change, we first need to look at what the World Cup is, in terms of economic impact. It's effectively one giant billboard for advertising companies who pay FIFA and Qatar for the advertising space. The players on the field are just the means of making people look at that billboard. If players make people feel good, people will look much more. In this way, an inconsequential feel-good protest might even be beneficial for everyone involved because fans will think "the players are moral people, they deserve to be watched", so they will watch. And see tons of ads in the run.
 
Forostar said:
And the inside of some "houses" workers lived in.
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I'm afraid this is the norm in most rich oil Arabic countries.

I was in three of them, and was looking to live in one of them. When exploring the options I came to something very interesting. Keep in mind that what I'm referring to does not affect the natives, but you and me, and those Indians; men cannot live with eachother under the same roof if they're not related. I was heavily affected by this because it meant that a bunch of us cannot rent a big house and consolidate the expenses. Solo accommodation only.

So I presume those workers aren't living in a "house" at all.

The cultural gap is immense. We should not spend money on those societies while they're still in 18th century.
 
Perun said:
In this way, an inconsequential feel-good protest might even be beneficial for everyone involved because fans will think "the players are moral people, they deserve to be watched", so they will watch. And see tons of ads in the run.
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Good point.

The only way footballer can protest is to not play football, I'm afraid.
 
Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
The problem in this regard is that FIFA will assist them in the censorship through their "no political statements please". When even what the Norwegian team did before the Gibraltar game raised concerns, think what a more direct statement could cause.
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Yesterday I heard that teams will not be punished for such actions. But perhaps they meant now and not during the tournament.
 
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