Official Football Thread

[Albie]

Apperently you still think well of England's strength (and your respect for Scotland hasn't grown?), where I see it different. Everyone his own view!

Not really, I'm not trying to make light of Scotland's resurgence or put a positive spin on England, but because of how well Scotland did, does not mean England should be more fearful of Scotland now than ever before. And no Scot will say that they would fancy playing England - they will be just as fearful of the English (however, you may get the odd few Scots who will suggest that Scotland can beat England simply because Scotland beat France home and away and ran Italy close - but you know as well as I that Football does not work like that).

No self respecting Englishman (be it the man on his sofa at home watching Sky Sports from suburbia B'rum, right up to England's no 10) will want to loose to any of these three countries: Argentina, Germany and Scotland. If they did play the Scots, you won't ever see them as bad as they were in the first half against Croatia. I know the Scots will say the same, but that is why these games are played with the passion they deserve - and only a brave man will call the result beforehand.

 

[Forostar]

But such unique passion will surely be missed, the coming years, at least that's my feeling about it. It will be long before we'll have a non-friendly England-Scotland again. When was the last time by the way?

edit:
Just looked it up (guess where?):

Traditionally England have been Scotland's fiercest rivals, though in recent times senior level fixtures between the teams have become uncommon, with the last match in 1999, which Scotland won 1-0.

Well, Albie, that's EIGHT years ago. Never any need for another clash, especially when you realize Scotland won that last match?

Scotland's head to head record vs England shows a nice balance:

W: 41
D:  24
L:  45

 

[Forostar]

HOLY COW!!!
England will meet Craotia again!

And Netherlands will meet Norway (and Scotland)! *shakes hands with Eddies Wingman*
Exciting times guaranteed, also on this forum!

Here all the European groups (copied from the BBC website, hence the capitals):

Group 1 Portugal, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Albania, Malta

Group 2 Greece, Israel, Switzerland, Moldova, Latvia, Luxembourg

Group 3 Czech Republic, Poland, NORTHERN IRELAND, Slovakia, Slovenia, San Marino

Group 4 Germany, Russia, Finland, WALES, Azerbaijan, Liechtenstein

Group 5 Spain, Turkey, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Armenia, Estonia

Group 6 Croatia, ENGLAND, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Andorra

Group 7 France, Romania, Serbia, Lithuania, Austria, Faroe Islands

Group 8 Italy, Bulgaria, Republic of Ireland, Cyprus, Georgia, Montenegro

Group 9 Holland, SCOTLAND, Norway, FYR Macedonia, Iceland

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

HOLY COW!!!
England will meet Craotia again!

And Netherlands will meet Norway (and Scotland)! *shakes hands with Eddies Wingman*



Group 9 Holland, SCOTLAND, Norway, FYR Macedonia, Iceland[/b]

My oh my, group 9 is going to be a close call. The Dutch are of course favourites here (Forostar, when was the last time your team did not qualify?) but I don't think there will be much to separate between the three first. Guess everybody would like the thought of their team switching places with the team from their respective seeding level in group 2. Greece, Israel and Switzerland? Perhaps the weakest team from each pot.

*Steady, firm handshake with Forostar* We're in for some really exciting times here next autumn.

 

[Albie]

Group 6 Croatia, ENGLAND, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Andorra

From my point of view, I would hope England would get three points from each of Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Andorra at Wembley. If they do that, then I would think this should put them in a good position to at least take second place in this group. Croatia again is quite funny, just as long as we don't go down the revenge path and with the new boss (which is looking like ex-Real Madrid coach Capello or out of work Mourinho), we should be OK - fingers crossed.

---

But such unique passion will surely be missed, the coming years, at least that's my feeling about it. It will be long before we'll have a non-friendly England-Scotland again. When was the last time by the way?

edit:
Just looked it up (guess where?):

Traditionally England have been Scotland's fiercest rivals, though in recent times senior level fixtures between the teams have become uncommon, with the last match in 1999, which Scotland won 1-0.

Well, Albie, that's EIGHT years ago. Never any need for another clash, especially when you realize Scotland won that last match?

We need to put that game in perspective, it was the second leg of a play-off qualifier for Euro 2000 and England won the tie 2-1 on aggregate and progressed. The game before that was in Euro '96 - England won that as well 2-0. That is the last three games we have played them.

 

[Forostar]

(Forostar, when was the last time your team did not qualify?)

Not long ago actually. :/
We didn't qualify for the World Cup 2002 (South Korea & Japan). I remember some very difficult matches vs Ireland and Portugal. All the other matches went very well. Here the scores of the matches that cost us the qualification:

September 2, 2000: Netherlands 2 - 2 Republic of Ireland
October 11, 2000:   Netherlands 0 - 2 Portugal
March 28, 2001:      Portugal 2 - 2 Netherlands
September 1, 2001: Republic of Ireland 1 - 0 Netherlands


The final score of that group:

Rank Team                  Pts   Pld  W   D   L   GF   GA   GD
1      Portugal               24   10   7   3    0   33    7    26
2      Republic of Ireland 24   10   7    3    0  23    5    18
3      Netherlands          20   10   6    2   2   30    9    21
4      Estonia                 8    10   2   2    6  10   26   -16
5      Cyprus                 8    10   2    2   6   13   31  -18
6      Andorra                0    10   0   0   10    5   36  -31

Before this: no qualification at the World Cup in Mexico 1986.
So the Netherlands were present at all big tournements between 1988 and 2008, except for 2002.

-------------------

Coming back at this group again:
Group 9 Holland, SCOTLAND, Norway, FYR Macedonia, Iceland

Translated from Dutch teletext (just based on statistics, not really my opinion):

From these four opponents, Iceland is on paper the most simple opponent and Macedonia the heaviest.

From the 21 "serious" matched vs these four countries, Holland lost only 3.               
And all those defeats did not have bad consequences.                                       

We're talking about matches which were played in qualification campaigns for a European Championsship or a World Cup and duels on those tournements. (So not the 22 friendly matches).


edit: Did you guys knew this?? Hahaha:

Anthem gaffe 'helped Croatia'

The British singer who sang the Croatian anthem before last night's match accidentally sang 'My penis is a mountain'.

Tony Henry was trying to sing the national anthem in Croatian, but reportedly got the words wrong.

Fans say the mispronounciation helped the players relax before the game at Wembley where Croatia beat England 3-2.

The national anthem is written in old style Croatian, and there can be slightly different interpretations in English because it is a very lyrical language.

The line in which Henry slipped up should have been "mila kuda si planina" (You know my dear how we love your mountains).

But what he actually sang was "mila kura si planina" which means "Dear Penis, you are a Mountain" or "My Dear, my penis is a mountain".

Croat players like Manchester City's Vedran Corluka and Arsenal target Luka Modric started looking at each other and grinning when they realised what he was singing.

Croat fan websites have been calling for Henry to be given a medal of honour for helping the players relax, they also want him made an official team mascot for the tournament.

Mate Prlic, publisher of the top Croatian footballing Torcida Magazine said: "It would be great if Tony Henry could join the Croatian team and fans at the European Championship in Austria and Switzerland.

"He obviously relaxed the Croatian players before the match at Wembley and if that's a winning combination why not invite him to join the team at Euro 2008 to keep the winning streak going."

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

That anthem story was hilarious  One letter can really make a difference ...

Who said that they considered FYR Macedonia as the heaviest opponent? Is it due to simple head-to-head statistics between the teams or something? If so, I guess the statistical basis for comparison isn't too big as the country has only been about for a decade or so. Have you played them twice and lost one after being qualified already, or something like that? That would mean 50-50 which of course is worse than the statistics against Norway, considering we were completely crap from the outbreak of WW2 to well into the 80's.

Perhaps the statistics is enforced by somebody confusing FYROM with the ancient Greek province and think that the team is inspired by the spirit of Alexander the Great? 

As for Netherlands not qualifying for the World Cup in 2002 - how stupid of me to forget that. I can remember quite strange things from football, but equally often I can forget major things like regular nations missing a tournament.

 

[Forostar]

That anthem story was hilarious  One letter can really make a difference ...
Who said that they considered FYR Macedonia as the heaviest opponent? Is it due to simple head-to-head statistics between the teams or something? If so, I guess the statistical basis for comparison isn't too big as the country has only been about for a decade or so. Have you played them twice and lost one after being qualified already, or something like that?

Yes, simple head-to-head stats. Perhaps they made a mistake. BTW: Macedonia has Pandev, a very wanted player.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_o ... Qualifiers
2006 World Cup Qualifiers
The Republic of Macedonia was drawn in Group 1 and was grouped with Netherlands, Czech Republic, Romania, Finland, Armenia and Andorra. They managed to open their campaign with a 3-0 win at home to Armenia on 18 August 2004. Macedonia would not win another home game for more than 3 years. On 9 October 2004, the Republic of Macedonia managed to hold European giants Netherland to a surprise 2-2 draw in Skopje in front of a crowd of 17,000 at the Gradski Stadium, but in their next game, just 4 days later, the Republic of Macedonia suffered one of its most embarrassing defeats, a 1-0 loss away to Andorra, one of the world's weakest teams. Also in this tournaments, the Republic of Macedonia set a new team record for most goals conceded in a game when they lost 6-1 away to Czech Republic on 8 June 2005. The Republic of Macedonia went on to concede a further 8 goals in the next 2 qualifiers, both were against Finland. On 23 August 2005, Macedonian Coach Slobodan Santrac resigned as coach of the Republic of Macedonia after just 5 months into the job due to personal problems, with former Macedonian player Boban Babunski temporarily taking over as coach. The resignation came just days after the Macedonians were beaten 3-0 by Finland in Skopje. Despite their poor performance during the 2006 World Cup qualifying campaign, the Republic of Macedonia managed to end the campaign on a high, with a 0-0 draw against Netherlands in Amsterdam. This result meant that the Republic of Macedonia, with the 2 draws against Netherlands, was the only team in the group not to have been twice defeated by group winners Netherlands. Netherlands won 10 of their 12 games in the 2006 World Cup campaign. The Republic of Macedonia failed to qualify for the 2006 World Cup in Germany, finishing 5th in the group on 9 points.

Perhaps you would check the matches between Norway and Holland?

As for Netherlands not qualifying for the World Cup in 2002 - how stupid of me to forget that. I can remember quite strange things from football, but equally often I can forget major things like regular nations missing a tournament.

NP, I'm trying to forget it, but it doesn't work.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Yes, simple head-to-head stats. Perhaps they made a mistake. BTW: Macedonia has Pandev, a very wanted player.

....

Perhaps you would check the matches between Norway and Holland?

Eh, I'd rather not. If we go further back than my age (I'm born in '82) that statistic is nice reading. For you. If we count matches played since I found interest in football at age 10, we have a fairly even head-to-head:

September 1992: Norway-Netherlands 2-1
June 1993: Netherlands-Norway 0-0
October 1994: Norway-Netherlands 1-1
November 1995: Netherlands-Norway 3-0 (ouch)

So, counting the matches I have witnessed we are only separated by goal difference.

Before that, we met in 1972 and 1973 and the Dutch won 2-1 in Oslo and 9-0 in Rotterdam (I assume it was there, at least). So all in all Holland has a clear lead head-to-head against Norway, but we haven't met very often.

The statistics website I used:http://www.statto.com/database/headtohead.php NB, the stats doesn't include friendly matches.

 

[Forostar]

Thanks! BTW, regardless of any stats, I think we should not think lighthearted of this group.

Macedonia is pretty OK, they also made it difficult for England this year. A young, but growing football country.
Iceland can be dangerous at home.
We've all seen how strong the Scots have grown.
Norway is strong as well!

Our group is not so easy as one should think at first sight. Imo the Greeks have a way easier group.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

The Greeks have what I would consider a very easy group. I would actually say that for any other team from the upper seeding level, like Netherlands, Germany, France and Italy, this group should be a walk in the park.

Iceland had a surprising draw against Spain, but generally they were weak in the qualification matches. For example, in the matches against Sweden and Denmark they got a total of 0 points in four games.

Macedonia can surprise, but I think it takes some underrating from all the assumed top 3. Netherlands, Norway and Scotland should all be able to beat them both home and away. But they are certainly no San Marino.

Scotland and Norway were both one point away from qualifying for the European Championships, I guess these two teams are quite even in quality. I consider Netherlands to be a little stronger, but certainly not so much stronger that I see them winning the group by a big margin. I would guess who takes 1st place is not going to be determined until the two last rounds, and who takes second will not be clear until the sound of the final whistle some cold November afternoon, 2009.

One should remember the outcome of the quals for the 2006 World cup, where Norway and Scotland were in the same group. Italy won the group and Norway finished second, just ahead of the Scots. Norway and Scotland won one each against each other.

 

[Albie]

@Forostar, that Croatia national anthem story is quite funny. Before the match, the singer was interviewed on UK telly and spoke of how honoured he was to sing both anthems, etc. This just goes to show how one can be well versed on how to sing a song in a language you know nothing about, but one slight mis-pronunciation can take on a whole new meaning.

I have listened to a few views on how the Scots see this group, and believe it or not, some are quite optimistic. Now, if this is the view of some of the players and coaching staff, then trust me, both Norway and the Dutch will have nothing to worry about. Scotland, like England, always cock it up when they under estimate their opponent.

However, some Scots have expressed major concern about recent results against both of the above two teams and, quite rightly so, see this is a bit tougher than some may think. Then they look at Iceland and Macedonia away and don't feel that confident about getting the results they may need to get.

@EW: the team that finishes top of that group is the team that wins all, or most, of their home games - it's as simple as that.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Now, time to think of the UEFA Champions League again.

Here in Trondheim, Wednesday's match between Rosenborg and Chelsea is drawing most of the attention in the local news. The winter has come here and several people, among them a couple of Rosenborg players, have said that they believe that's to their advantage. I ask myself; why?

Chelsea come from England. Of course it doesn't snow as much there during the winter as in the middle of Norway, but we are only in November. We have 10 cm of snow and the temperature is about 0 degrees Celsius. (That would be 32 F). I assume that most of England experiences that during the winter, just not so early.

I mean, against Valencia or Panathinaikos it could be an advantage with winter weather even though we're just talking mild winter now. On a Norwegian football discussion board I read a Rosenborg fan stating that he actually thinks Chelsea will have an advantage: The pitch at Lerkendal is wet and heavy, and he thinks that Chelsea will benefit from this because they are more physical than RBK. To some extent, I agree: RBK don't have any real "bulldozers" like Terry, Drogba (if he doesn't dive - he is quite strong) and there is no reason to think low temperatures and a wet, heavy pitch will chock Chelsea in any way.

But I wouldn't be very surprised if it ends in a draw, because Chelsea really don't need more than that. 0-0 anyone?

Tonight, I of course hope Manchester United will give Sporting a lesson. Let Cristiano do some magic against his old team (if he's match fit, of course).

 

[Forostar]

PSV just won in Moscow! 0-1. Still chances to continue in the CL.

 

[porcnoz]

Lyon 1 - 1 Barcelona, half time.

Magnific goal for Barcelone, disputable one for Lyon.

For all he did, Y. Touré was given a yellow card. So F. Rijkaard began to shout on the referee who finally decided to throw him out !!

2 - 2 finally. Barcelona had worth winning this match.

 

[Albie]

Good result for Man U last night, this means that a trip to Roma next month effects nothing in the course of who finishes first or second (or third or fourth for that matter). Both Roma and Man U can afford to field a weakened side with no real reprisal - but watch the bastards at UEFA come down heavy on them if they do.

I must admit, I'm looking carefully at the group Rangers are in. I really hope they progress (especially if Celtic don't) and to do so they have to avoid defeat to Lyon at Ibrox - something they should achieve.

@EW: Chelsea are looking to be on form tonight. I can't see the game, but 3-0 up by half time!

 

[Forostar]

Liverpool are in trouble vs FC Porto at the moment. I thought they have to win for CL? Right now: 1-1.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Last time I checked, it was 2-1. Looks good for the scousers.

Doesn't look that good for Rosenborg ... guess I am going to see some less-than-happy faces tomorrow. Chelsea have shown tonight how efficient they can be, and Rosenborg have shown that they haven't played a match in three weeks.

 

[Albie]

Liverpool are in trouble vs FC Porto at the moment. I thought they have to win for CL? Right now: 1-1.

As I type, its 3-1 to Liverpool. They really needed that win, but they still remain in trouble - it looks like they will need to win in Marseilles to progress.

EDIT: 4-1

EDIT2: However, this scoreline really puts this group into the realms of all sorts of possible outcomes - Besiktas 2-1 Marseille. The group as it stands remains as such:

                    Pl      Points
1 FC Porto  5  8
2 Marseille   5   7
3 Liverpool   5    7
4 Besiktas   5   6

I really tried to get that table straight, but I've had a few too many vinos and as such - gave up.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

As I type, its 3-1 to Liverpool. They really needed that win, but they still remain in trouble - it looks like they will need to win in Marseilles to progress.

EDIT: 4-1

EDIT2: However, this scoreline really puts this group into the realms of all sorts of possible outcomes - Besiktas 2-1 Marseille. The group as it stands remains as such:

                    Pl      Points
1 FC Porto  5  8
2 Marseille   5   7
3 Liverpool   5    7
4 Besiktas   5   6

I really tried to get that table straight, but I've had a few too many vinos and as such - gave up.

Your table is correct, Albie. This group is going to be a real thriller with Marseille-Liverpool as the big decisive match. The other thriller group will be group C, of course, with only three points separating Lazio in 4th and Real Madrid in 1st.

I guess Rosenborg will get a hard time in Germany. They're through with a draw, but considering that they're now off season and also lost the home game against Schalke 04, a draw is a big task. I hold Schalke as favourites to advance from this group.

As for Celtic, they need a draw against Milan unless Benfica can take points from Shakhtar Donetsk. Since Benfica are out, I believe Shakhtar will be able to beat them, even in Lisbon. But Milan are already through - a draw at San Siro would not surprise me much.

The last round of the group stage is going to be packed with drama, that's for sure.