Official Football Thread

[Forostar]

Yes, I realized that. Maybe I should have said what I said without quoting the Khan.

By the way, have you been following the crap in the French team? What a soap!

1. Anelka sent home for coach insult
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 749698.stm

2. France refuse to train after row
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 750302.stm

3. France in turmoil after training row
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 750665.stm

Speaking of Keita, there's a guy from the Nigerian team with a slightly different name:
Kaita gets death threats after red card

That's really sad...

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Speaking of Keita, there's a guy from the Nigerian team with a slightly different name:
Kaita gets death threats after red card

That's really sad...

Somebody take football one notch too seriously. I guess you recall the murder of Andres Escobar in 1994 ...

Of course Kaita was bloody stupid against Greece, but he doesn't deserve death threats. No one does.

And as for the French soap opera: I wonder if Anelka will be taken back if Domenech is replaced as coach. Norwegian TV2 are discussing the incidents now.

 

[Forostar]

I guess you recall the murder of Andres Escobar in 1994 ...

O yes, that was horrible.

I just heard these too opinions on TV:

Leo Beenhakker: Africans can play football but they can't play football together.
Youri Mulder (ex-striker, he played for FC Twente and FC Schalke, now he's analyst on TV):
The African teams use conservative European coaches, who let their teams defend too much. They let their opponents come, and even await them on their own half. That calls for trouble.

Bu the way:  for New Zealand! Would be something if they (or/and Australia) could reach the next round.

 

[Jeffmetal]

They need brasilian coaches there to change the way they play and their schemes. Japan really started to play football when brasilians went there and the summit was when Zico embraced them with all passion.

Talking about the game, Luis Fabiano handballed, but it was involuntary (his arm went down with the ball as it fell in his arm. If he had handled the ball, his arm would keep stretched and the ball would've taken another route), then he used his shoulder, which is allowed. Kaka sent out was ridiculous. Brasil should use the image to release Kaka to play next match 'cos Keita just acted and it was embarrasing. Well, as a team we're not playing well really, but the individual talent is still our strongest weapon.

Just want that we play really well on Friday and destroy Portugal and hope we keep like that 'til the final!!!

 

[Onhell]

Somebody take football one notch too seriously. I guess you recall the murder of Andres Escobar in 1994 ...

ESPN is doing a piece on that in their great documentary series "30 for 30."

 

[Genghis Khan]

I just heard these too opinions on TV:

Leo Beenhakker: Africans can play football but they can't play football together.
Youri Mulder (ex-striker, he played for FC Twente and FC Schalke, now he's analyst on TV):
The African teams use conservative European coaches, who let their teams defend too much. They let their opponents come, and even await them on their own half. That calls for trouble.

No wonder there are problems in African teams.  Read this article to get an impression on the unpreparedness and virtual non-existant relationship between the coaches and players. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8748331.stm

By the way, have you been following the crap in the French team? What a soap!

The French are going out.  Besides Algeria, they're the only team scoreless in two games.  Zinadine Zidane must be double pissed.  This drama with Anelka is not helping things either.

Speaking of diving. A lot of stuff to discuss in the Brazil vs Ivory Coast match.

A lovely first goal by Brazil. But after that I think a lot of rubbish happened.

• Brazil's second was a clear handball by Fabiano. No, two handballs.
• A lot of exaggeration when players were tackled. Some seemed to be close to death
• A series of bad fouls - studs up challenges were abundant in the second half
• The entire episode that led to Kaka being sent off. What a load of crap from Keita. Come on. Kaka lifted his elbow a little, but the Ivorian wanker pretends he got an uppercut to the jaw.

Now, this doesn't take away much from the conclusion that Brazil played very well, and that they now have to be considered one of the main contenders for the title. Argentina have still impressed me more, and Netherlands have been solid, but you can never count out Brazil when they get going.

Keep in mind that Genghis's remark came after just 15 minutes of the game. In those 15 minutes, Denmark were piss poor. For the rest of the game, it was like you say a much more open match. Both teams produced plenty of chances. It could (should?) have been 4-4.

. 

The second Brazilian goal is suspect.  I don't buy Jeffmetal's interpretation that it was accidental.  What about the first handball where Fabiano touched it with his wrist? 

Keita's behaviour is pathetic.  Luckily Brazil does not need Kaka next game to advance to the knockouts.

You're right about Denmark.  My comment was about the first 15 minutes.  The Danes were great after.

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Yes, penalty was half a present. But New Zealand scorer was in offside position... 

He was offside when NZ player passed the ball, but not when the Italian defender Canavarro deflected it.

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I was 2/3 in predictions again.  Tomorrow I predict and hope the three European teams win.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

---

He was offside when NZ player passed the ball, but not when the Italian defender Canavarro deflected it.

Actually, that does not matter. If you are in an offside position and the ball is passed towards you, it's a free kick even if the ball touches an opponent. It becomes a free kick in the moment Reid heads it forwards. The whole "ball comes off an opponent" thing is to be interpreted in a much stricter sense. For example, if the ball is played forwards towards a striker who is not offside, then deflects off a defender and changes direction completely and goes to one who is offside - then it is not a free kick. Likewise, if the defender tries to clear the ball, misses it and thus passes it to an attacker in an offside position - no offside. But if the "pass" forwards is in the direction of an offside player, it does not matter if it deflects off a defender. The pass came from a player of the attacking team.

It is no doubt that the linesman (and referee) got the decision wrong. However, Reid's touch on the ball was so subtle it would make perfect sense that they never noticed it - and if there had been no touch from him, then obviously no offside. Therefore I think it is not a bad mistake - it is simply a difficult call. There and then, the referee and his assistant must decide whether Reid had a touch of the ball or not. If they were in doubt, and chose to give the attacking team the benefit - fine.

The second Brazilian goal is suspect.  I don't buy Jeffmetal's interpretation that it was accidental.  What about the first handball where Fabiano touched it with his wrist?  

I agree about Jeff's interpretation. "his arm went down with the ball as it fell in his arm" - come on, give me a break. He had his arm outstretched right where the ball was coming. Only the most liberal of referees would consider that an involuntarily handball. And the second touch was more upper arm than shoulder. Hell, even the ref thought so - it seemed he just gave Fabiano the benefit of the doubt. We who have seen replays of the situation don't have to - we can say that it was a handball.

 

[Albie]

I'd rather have the problems we English have, than what the French have. I still think Les Blues will just sneak through though.


The Brazilian 2nd goal was handball, twice, whatever way you loook at it. And only one Ivory Coast defender appealed against the goal.

The ref had a shocker in that game and made some poor decisions throughout. He should of stamped his authority on the game and not allowed such play acting - from both sets of players. Had he done so, Kaka would not of been red-carded.

However, cast your mind back to Brazil-Turkey - 2002 World Cup group game. Rivaldo was waiting for the ball to take a Brazilian corner. Unsal of Turkey kicked the ball to him - not that aggressively - and it hit Rivaldo in the stomach/groin area. Rivaldo went to ground clutching his face as if he had been shot. Unsal got a red-card for his part in this, but FIFA reviewed this and, most importantly, gave Rivaldo a two match suspension for play-acting. Keita may well suffer the same fate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgfRCa71Kmw

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

... FIFA reviewed this and, most importantly, gave Rivaldo a two match suspension for play-acting. Keita may well suffer the same fate.

Agree, they should definitely ban Keita for a match or two. That Rivaldo clip was actually shown during last night's World Cup studio in TV2. I also agree that the ref did not show any kind of leadership throughout the match. In addition to all the play-acting, he let several bad studs-up challenges go without booking the offender.

As for Les Bleus, I doubt it. If Mexico win by one, they have to win by four to equal Uruguay's goal difference. If Uruguay win by one, France must win by only three. For a team that has not yet scored, I simply don't see that happening.

Speaking of England: I saw the Big Man, Captain of Chelsea and England's Lion hiimself had tried to challenge Capello? Fortunately, Capello is man enough to tell Terry just to shut up. What England need now is definitely not a fraction of players trying to boss the manager around. Looks like Terry is very bitter for losing the captaincy. I just wonder if Capello has got the man management skills to turn this into something positive, and make the players turn the aggression on Slovenai instead of on each other.

 

[Albie]

I just wonder if Capello has got the man management skills to turn this into something positive, and make the players turn the aggression on Slovenai instead of on each other.

Let's hope so.

 

[Ranko]

If Uruguay win by one, France must win by only three. For a team that has not yet scored, I simply don't see that happening.

I don't think France can win at all at this point. Their team spirit will be totally crushed after all the soap opera stuff that's been happening, I'm considering betting on them losing or the game being a draw against South Africa.

 

[national acrobat]

• A lot of exaggeration when players were tackled. Some seemed to be close to death

This is what I really hate. Any contact from the defending player when he doesn't connect with the ball, the player with the ball goes down regardless of whether it's a foul, and the referee gives him a freekick. Any tugging on the shirt, the player falls to the ground (a la de Rossi) and gets a foul given. A part of an arm brushes a player's face/neck/chest, he collapses as if with a broken cheekbone and an eye gouged out. It's up to the referee simply to stop giving freekicks for contact without fouls, and the players would soon stop diving theatrically.

As for Brazil, I would favour them over Argentina as their defence seems a lot more solid, although they're not quite so effective going forward (e.g. apart from creating the 3rd goal yesterday, Kaka has had a very mediocre two matches).

And Fabiano's goal should definitely have been disallowed - two clear handballs to control the ball - whether they were intentional or not.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Quote from a poster on the Man Utd forum www.redcafe.net:

"John Terry, you are so lucky your mate Frank actually has a brain. He handled all the shit 'JT' dished out yesterday brilliantly."

It seems like Frank Lampard has been doing some fire extinguishing on today's press conference? I haven't seen it, can any of you - Nush, Albie - enlighten me, please? I know about the stir from yesterday, but what has Lampard said today to calm things?

 

[____no5]

I'm pissed off for Kaka's red card. Is there any possibility to teke less than 3 matches suspension if FIFA reviews the video ??

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Well, the only opportunity they've had to set a precedence for this kind of situations was the Rivaldo incident in 2002, and he got two matches. Thus, if they decide that Keita was guilty of simulating (which he was), the most likely is two matches.

Now, I doubt Ivory Coast will go through anyway after Portugal's 7-0 thrashing of Dictatorial Party's Republic of Korea.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Well, the only opportunity they've had to set a precedence for this kind of situations was the Rivaldo incident in 2002, and he got two matches. Thus, if they decide that Keita was guilty of simulating (which he was), the most likely is two matches.

Now, I doubt Ivory Coast will go through anyway after Portugal's 7-0 thrashing of Dictatorial Party's Republic of Korea.

I'm on a break at work and when I saw the score I gave a big smile.  That's awesome.  Dictatorial Party's Raping of Korea will surely spin this in some way.

Actually, that does not matter. If you are in an offside position and the ball is passed towards you, it's a free kick even if the ball touches an opponent. It becomes a free kick in the moment Reid heads it forwards. The whole "ball comes off an opponent" thing is to be interpreted in a much stricter sense. For example, if the ball is played forwards towards a striker who is not offside, then deflects off a defender and changes direction completely and goes to one who is offside - then it is not a free kick. Likewise, if the defender tries to clear the ball, misses it and thus passes it to an attacker in an offside position - no offside. But if the "pass" forwards is in the direction of an offside player, it does not matter if it deflects off a defender. The pass came from a player of the attacking team.

It is no doubt that the linesman (and referee) got the decision wrong. However, Reid's touch on the ball was so subtle it would make perfect sense that they never noticed it - and if there had been no touch from him, then obviously no offside. Therefore I think it is not a bad mistake - it is simply a difficult call. There and then, the referee and his assistant must decide whether Reid had a touch of the ball or not. If they were in doubt, and chose to give the attacking team the benefit - fine.
I agree about Jeff's interpretation. "his arm went down with the ball as it fell in his arm" - come on, give me a break. He had his arm outstretched right where the ball was coming. Only the most liberal of referees would consider that an involuntarily handball. And the second touch was more upper arm than shoulder. Hell, even the ref thought so - it seemed he just gave Fabiano the benefit of the doubt. We who have seen replays of the situation don't have to - we can say that it was a handball.

The commentators at the TV desk were stating things differently.  But it does not matter.  I'm just glad that Italy did not win.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

I'm on a break at work and when I saw the score I gave a big smile.  That's awesome.  Dictatorial Party's Raping of Korea will surely spin this in some way.

As one commented, they might very well tell the people that they've beat Brazil 1-0 and drawn 0-0 with Portugal. At the same time the coal mines might await for the players ...

The commentators at the TV desk were stating things differently.  But it does not matter.  I'm just glad that Italy did not win.

Commentators are ignorant more often than not when it comes to interpretation of rules. Especially handballs and offsides. What I wrote is what I have heard from a referee.

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Chile vs Switzerland 1-0. This will make group H very interesting. Spain now have to beat Honduras tonight - or they will have to rely on Honduras getting something from Switzerland.

Spain winning their last two and Switzerland beating Honduras will see three teams tied on 6 points - and then Chile might have to pay the prize of scoring only once in each game, despite having chances enough to score three in both.

 

[national acrobat]

Quote from a poster on the Man Utd forum www.redcafe.net:

"John Terry, you are so lucky your mate Frank actually has a brain. He handled all the shit 'JT' dished out yesterday brilliantly."

It seems like Frank Lampard has been doing some fire extinguishing on today's press conference? I haven't seen it, can any of you - Nush, Albie - enlighten me, please? I know about the stir from yesterday, but what has Lampard said today to calm things?

You can see/read the Lampard press conference here. I think he basically just down-played everything Terry said about how he and others were going to give Capello a piece of their minds.

 

[Onhell]

France is completely demoralized... they're done. Italy is playing no better. Spain is still my favorite of the Euro teams and I am currently torn since my grandfather is from Honduras and my grandmother from Spain haha. But I'm rooting for Spain.

The refering in every match has been suspect, I don't like it at all.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

The refering in every match has been suspect, I don't like it at all.

I think the refereeing has been good in more matches than it has been bad. However, it has gotten worse the last few days. During the first round of group matches, I could not think of any other bad calls than that the sending-off of Australia's Tim Cahill was very harsh.

You can see/read the Lampard press conference

Thanks! I particularly liked what he said at the end: "I wasn't knocking John's door down saying 'Do you think I can't unlock a defence?'." 

Frank Lampard is probably my favourite Chelsea player. He rarely complains, he just does the job. He seems to be one of the more reflected guys in the England squad (and at Chelsea). And it's a good thing that he takes a diplomatic approach to this entire situation, playing down his clubmate's big words. Terry has got a very big mouth (perhaps that comes with being a Big Man™?).

I think what the England squad needs now is just focusing on concrete tasks that they need to work on, not who should play saviour. Then it's good to have someone like Lampard to calm things down.