Musical prejudice

Forgive me, would you explain this better because I don't understand it:
Ariana said:
I can't even explain what I dislike about it because that would suggest there was something I liked about it, so I could make comparisons. Which is not the case, I'm sorry.
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The song you've posted has very operatic vocals in the chorus. Perhaps you're not into that style (or height) of singing. This is quite typical for Tarja, although she can also sing in a different way. But Floor also sings in different styles (more rock or metal).

Statistically, I'd probably dislike more metal bands with male vocalists than bands with female vocalists, simply because there are way more bands with male vocalists.

I have seen quite a lot of concerts with female vocalists. If I ever had some prejudice before I started with all these gigs, seeing their performances with my own eyes certainly has helped. Since the nineties (especially since the end of that decade) more and more metal bands with female singers popped up in the Netherlands. Of course there were bad ones, but also good ones. Within a few years this "phenomenon" became as normal as anything.

Females can grunt, scream, sing soft and sweet, or powerful and rough, or with the range of Bruce. There are many styles of singing. Essentially there is no difference between sexes.
 
Ariana said:
Here's what I mean. Take this song as an example.


To me, this song works perfectly fine with the male vocalist only. The voice is fitting. When Scabbia takes the mike, I get all itchy. Also fitting, considering Scabbia means scabies in English. Her participation in this song is totally unnecessary. So is her singing on all other Lacuna Coil's songs, for that matter.
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Well, I feel the other way around. I don't care for Lacuna Coil, and I don't think of Cristina Scabbia as a particularly good singer, but I still think she makes the music listenable at times. Like in this case, I think her voice is much more pleasant than the singer's, and about the only thing about the song that I didn't completely dislike.

This one
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...is just plain awful.
 
Forostar said:
Females can grunt, scream, sing soft and sweet, or powerful and rough, or with the range of Bruce. There are many styles of singing. Essentially there is no difference between sexes.
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You know, there may be no difference in technique, but still in the way a voice sounds.
 
Forostar said:
Forgive me, would you explain this better because I don't understand it.
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Sure I'd explain. Binary categories. You can't assess a thing as bad unless you have an opposing category, which in this case will be good, against which it could be ranked as bad. So I can't tell you what is bad in this particular song, simply because there is nothing good it it.

And yes, I agree that female singers may sound different from each other but still, I wouldn't listen to any of them unless I have to.
 
And again: I also think it's possible that the height (the high octaves in which they sing) has to do with it. E.g. the singers Perun mentioned, most of them also sing very high, very often.
 
Ariana said:
Sure I'd explain. Binary categories. You can't assess a thing as bad unless you have an opposing category, which in this case will be good, against which it could be ranked as bad. So I can't tell you what is bad in this particular song, simply because there is nothing good it it.
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I don't think it works with me like this.
 
I can assure you I have no issue with high-pitched voices. In fact, and here is another thing that can put me off a band, I strongly dislike grunting.
 
I agree with everything Ariana has said so far.

This is not about sexism, or "metal is a male only genre" stance. I think female voices don't work in metal no matter the talent level.
 
Some other stuff:
-joke album/song titles
-albums which don't have songs longer than 2 minutes
-any genre of music with -core attached to it
 
Metal sound has a deep, heavy and powerful nature. Female vocalists do not have that heavy, deep edge to them. Some of them can sing powerfully but they don't have the depth of a male metal vocalist. When a male vocalist goes into the higher notes it actually creates an effect (despair, fear, or whatever it is that is the intention) whereas with female vocalists higher notes (in contrast to male vocalists) are a given.
 
The Flash said:
Metal sound has a deep, heavy and powerful nature. Female singers do not have that heavy, deep edge to them. Some of them can sing powerfully but they don't have the depth of a male metal vocalist. When a male vocalist goes into the higher notes it actually creates an effect (despair, fear, or whatever it is that is the intention) whereas with female vocalists higher notes (in contrast to male vocalists) are a given.
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So you don't hear depth and certain emotions in metal when portrayed by females. Believe me, women can do these things.

old version of this post:
So you are deaf for depth and certain emotions in metal when portrayed by females. Believe me, women can do these things.
 
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The Flash said:
I think female voices don't work in metal no matter the talent level.
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So if you were to take a male vocalist with the style/range/whatever that you do think works as your ideal in which to compare all other voices to; you're basically saying there is no female singer in the world who can or who has ever sounded like this. This is a bit open & shut. Are you not open to the possibility that there probably is a female vocalist out there who lives up to your ideal Metal vocalist? Or are you just saying you've never heard one? There's a big difference.
 
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
So if you were to take a male vocalist with the style/range/whatever that you do think works as your ideal in which to compare all other voices to; you're basically saying there is no female singer in the world who can or who has ever sounded like this. This is a bit open & shut. Are you not open to the possibility that there probably is a female vocalist out there who lives up to your ideal Metal vocalist? Or are you just saying you've never heard one? There's a big difference.
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Never heard one, don't see it being a possibility. Women and men have different vocal ranges and tonalities, you have to consider this. I think female voice type is greatly suited to sweet, fully lyrical/romantic, genuine story type of stuff. But I think male voice type sounds ridiculous in a "sweet" "soft as silk" manner (most of the time). Female voice type does touch my heart in certain styles. But I think it lacks the characteristics the heavy metal sound offers.
 
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I'm not saying I particularly disagree with you here Flash; but you seem decidedly un-open to the possibility of this. It's not impossible, is it? Unless, of course, some of the characteristics that define your ideal Metal voice are truly rare amongst female singers for purely biological reasons...
 
It's not important (to me). I just don't like people definitively ruling out even the possibility of such things. Foro, on the other hand, really does want you to explain why! :D
 
@Ariana - I was agreeing with you all the way through this thread until you said that Scabbia is the weak link in Lacuna Coil. Not that the band is even all that good, and she's definitely an average singer at best, but, oh my, that male singer...:puke:

Things that would turn me away from listening to an artist:
- auto-tuned vocals
- drum machines
- no singing/only screaming/grunting (a little of both is fine, but I need a blend with at least some melody)
- as Perun said: Ripper Owens
- cursing (especially in song titles)

Don't get me wrong, I often have the mouth of a truck-driving sailor, but most cursing in music drives me crazy. It shows such an utter lack of songwriting ability, such pure laziness. There are times where some swears fit perfectly, but it's usually weak ones like "damn" or "hell".
 
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