Metallica

They look like a much happier and inspired band than in other album making documentaries. That video was cool, hope there's more.

So does Kirk do anything besides solos? When did he become this removed from the band?

I hate when bands use one guitarist to record harmonies when they have two. The best part of Maiden's harmonies is the difference in tone between the two guitar players.
 
jazz from hell said:
Vai's phrasing is very elaborate, inspired by different styles and cultures. What mainly makes him unique imo is his eclecticism and sense of humour, along with his compositional skills. I find him much more interesting than Satriani.
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I love Satriani's playing, especially the earlier years, but I really don't like Vai's playing. I have his Passion and Warefare album but never listen to it, I just don't like it.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Really cool video on the making of Moth Into Flame (working title: Plow) -

Of note:
- James has all the riffs, Lars almost entirely responsible for turning this into a song.
- James records vocals while playing his guitar in the booth.
- James recorded all of the guitars, including the intro harmonies.
- Rob is a really good player.
- Kirk is literally non-existent in this band.
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So nothing has changed studiowise since Death Magnetic. I remember when I saw documentary of making DM I came to same conlcusions but must add few of my own:
The way Lars "constructs" songs seems really tiresome. "Let's do the 1st riff twice, change to bridge, 2nd riff once, repeat first riff, break, add..." Blah. I also think half of the time James doen't have clue what Lars is talking about. That way of Lars's calculated constructing also feels/looks passionless. Oh, I know they're working titles but it seems like they're blurting random words - it kinda shows that they have no idea what that song is going to be about or what atmosphere they want it to have.

Mosh said:
I hate when bands use one guitarist to record harmonies when they have two. The best part of Maiden's harmonies is the difference in tone between the two guitar players.
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I have no problem if one band member picks up another instrument in studio now and then but only if he's talented (Eddie Van Halen recorded bass lines instead of Michael Anthony all the time.)
 
Considering that Hetfield is far, far better player than Hammet, god knows how long would it take to record harmonies with Hammet's broken vibrato.
This guy hasn't done a good solo/lead lick since 25 years ago
 
His solo on All Nightmare Long is pretty cool, but aside from that yes. Not a single good solo since the Black Album.
 
Spambot said:
So nothing has changed studiowise since Death Magnetic. I remember when I saw documentary of making DM I came to same conlcusions but must add few of my own:
The way Lars "constructs" songs seems really tiresome. "Let's do the 1st riff twice, change to bridge, 2nd riff once, repeat first riff, break, add..." Blah. I also think half of the time James doen't have clue what Lars is talking about. That way of Lars's calculated constructing also feels/looks passionless. Oh, I know they're working titles but it seems like they're blurting random words - it kinda shows that they have no idea what that song is going to be about or what atmosphere they want it to have.
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Yeah, but Metallica has pretty much always been like that. Except for certain songs (*cough* Mama Said *cough*), they write a bunch of riffs, Lars arranges them, James writes a melody that he records in a series of nonsense syllables and THEN writes lyrics. Combining the words and the tone of the song is literally the last part of their process.
 
I assume the songs are shorter this time because they have a producer. Rick Rubin is notorious for being uninvolved with the process. This guy seems actively involved. Lars' arranging process seems exactly the same, he just doesn't know when there's enough stuff in a song.
 
Spambot said:
The way Lars "constructs" songs seems really tiresome. "Let's do the 1st riff twice, change to bridge, 2nd riff once, repeat first riff, break, add..." Blah. I also think half of the time James doen't have clue what Lars is talking about. That way of Lars's calculated constructing also feels/looks passionless.
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Yes, I can see why it takes them so long to write songs, horrible process there, and James probably has a limited amount of hours per day that he puts in. Kirk and Rob are pretty irrelevant, its the James and Lars show, I really don't think that clip does any favours for them.
 
Mosh said:
So does Kirk do anything besides solos? When did he become this removed from the band?
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I think it's always been this way going back to the beginning- they made a big deal when Kirk played rhythm on Load because he had never done that before (he just showed up for his solos on every prior record and that was it. Hetfield did basically everything else). I had thought that Kirk was more integrated now, but I guess they've gone back to the old way of doing things(?)
 
Forostar said:
Do you have an example of melodic? I haven't been very intrigued in this department.
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I know it's cliched to use this since it's one of his "hits", but I really do enjoy it:

Side note - despite listening to all of these shred gods or the last few days (I've been checking out Vai, Satriani, Gilbert, and MacAlpine), I still think that Adrian's solo in Stranger of a Strange Land is still one of the best of all time for a perfect fit to the song. Love it.
 
MindlessPieces said:
I really don't think that clip does any favours for them.
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I dunno, is there anything surprising in that clip? I think everyone assumes that it's the Lars/James show anyway, the clip just reaffirms that.

soundwave said:
Side note - despite listening to all of these shred gods or the last few days (I've been checking out Vai, Satriani, Gilbert, and MacAlpine), I still think that Adrian's solo in Stranger of a Strange Land is still one of the best of all time for a perfect fit to the song. Love it.
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Love that song. The hypnotic accompanying part is very Zappa-esque.

Adrian's phrasing is great and I often hear his influence in a lot of the big shredders.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Yeah, but Metallica has pretty much always been like that. Except for certain songs (*cough* Mama Said *cough*), they write a bunch of riffs, Lars arranges them, James writes a melody that he records in a series of nonsense syllables and THEN writes lyrics. Combining the words and the tone of the song is literally the last part of their process.
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I somehow got the different feeling, at least for pre-2000 albums. Althought the credits have at least 3 of members on lot of songs I remember reading that Cliff was bringing a lot of "skelets" of the songs, not only riffs. Also I remember reading that James wrote "Fade to Black" solely in very short period after their tour van was stoled. Even on documentary of Black album it looks like each of them very bringing at least intro-riff-verse kind of deal. This "riff-glueing" from Lars can turn out completely boring (like Lords of Summer) or what @Mosh said
Mosh said:
he just doesn't know when there's enough stuff in a song
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and that's why you get 8+ min songs where lenght can (and sometimes does) reduce the quality of the song. Early albums that have longer songs somehow seem more "compact", and I think that was Cliff's work. I would also like to know the story behind ...And Justice for All songwriting, especially rumours that he wrote much more than he was credited.

MindlessPieces said:
James probably has a limited amount of hours per day that he puts in
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Is this that thing from "Some kind of Monster" where he can only work 4 hours a day?


 
Mosh said:
I assume the songs are shorter this time because they have a producer. Rick Rubin is notorious for being uninvolved with the process. This guy seems actively involved. Lars' arranging process seems exactly the same, he just doesn't know when there's enough stuff in a song.
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That last sentence is the key. They need some editing them and (like his albums or hate them), Bob Rock was the only producer who ever did that. St. Anger is still an anomaly, though. They're far too big with far too big of heads now to ever accept a producer like that again. Although this guy definitely seems like a step in the right direction.

soundwave said:
I think it's always been this way going back to the beginning- they made a big deal when Kirk played rhythm on Load because he had never done that before (he just showed up for his solos on every prior record and that was it. Hetfield did basically everything else). I had thought that Kirk was more integrated now, but I guess they've gone back to the old way of doing things(?)
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Considering the album that had the most "Kirk integration" was the worst thing in the world, I can understand why.
 
Spambot said:
Is this that thing from "Some kind of Monster" where he can only work 4 hours a day?
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Yeah, I don't know if that continues today still, but I have seen a late night show guest apperance where they talk about balancing family life etc. I suspect it is a big part of why it takes eight years to come up with an album, rather than a creative block.
 
soundwave said:
I know it's cliched to use this since it's one of his "hits", but I really do enjoy it:

Side note - despite listening to all of these shred gods or the last few days (I've been checking out Vai, Satriani, Gilbert, and MacAlpine), I still think that Adrian's solo in Stranger of a Strange Land is still one of the best of all time for a perfect fit to the song. Love it.
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And David's Comfortably Numb solo for instance! Will listen later to the example!
 
Forostar said:
And David's Comfortably Numb solo for instance
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Well, that's only the best guitar solo of all time. Not too far behind is the solo (duet, really) from "Hotel California" -- one of my all-time favorite songs, recorded by one of my all-time LEAST favorite bands. I really don't like the Eagles, but they knocked it out of the park on this one. If Felder & Walsh had been the principal songwriters, the Eagles wouldn't have been nearly as popular, but I probably would have liked them better.

Back on topic: Another excellent example of a melodic, non-shredding solo is at 3:54 here.
 
Hotel California is one of my least favorite songs of all time. Can't stand the vocals one bit. (Seriously, they make me feel ill)

That solo is by James Hetfield. Probably the best Metallica solo since the Black Album and it's not Kirk's. :D
 
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