Metallica

Mosh said:
Didn't see that interview the first time around. I'm very pleased to read that. Death Magnetic was good but way too bloated. There wasn't any single song that I enjoy throughout, rather fragments of songs that show potential. If they could take those fragments and craft them into fleshed out, tightly arranged songs, then they're good to go. Very few of their long songs are enjoyable to me. Also, doesn't seem like they're trying to rewrite Fuel, but go in that direction in terms of song structure, which is fine by me. If they could mix the structure and arrangements of their 90s albums with the riffs and raw power of Death Magnetic, then theyll have a solid album I think.
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I love their longer works. Find them to incredible composers.
 
I want Metallica to come up with songs and not compositions. They're very much hit and miss with their composition-style works at this point of their career. Looking at stuff from Death Magnetic, I can't help but think the tracks on there would be much better with a better shaping/arranging job.
 
The Flash said:
I want Metallica to come up with songs and not compositions. They're very much hit and miss with their composition-style works at this point of their career. Looking at stuff from Death Magnetic, I can't help but think the tracks on there would be much better with a better shaping/arranging job.
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Oh undoubtedly but look at stuff like "Master of Puppets", "Orion" and "To Live is to Die". Incredible stuff.
 
They do have their great long songs. But I think they should explore the straight forward songwriting style a bit more. I would be ecstatic to hear stuff in the vein of Until It Sleeps, Devil's Dance, King Nothing or Hero of the Day. Very well written songs despite being featured on weak albums.
 
Their style of writing long songs just seems very copy and paste to me. Like they're stringing together unrelated riffs to make a bunch of incoherent long songs. They were definitely good at it in the 80s, though the cracks in that method started to show on AJFA IMO.
 
The Flash said:
They do have their great long songs. But I think they should explore the straight forward songwriting style a bit more. I would be ecstatic to hear stuff in the vein of Until It Sleeps, Devil's Dance, King Nothing or Hero of the Day. Very well written songs despite being featured on weak albums.
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Not a fan of Devil's Dance but I'd agree with that.
 
Mosh said:
Their style of writing long songs just seems very copy and paste to me. Like they're stringing together unrelated riffs to make a bunch of incoherent long songs. They were definitely good at it in the 80s, though the cracks in that method started to show on AJFA IMO.
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Which isn't a massive surprise since they're not a prog-based band. Only metal bands of huge prog influences (and not even that many of them) seem to be able to write coherent long songs, at least that's what I've seen so far.
 
Maybe. I always thought a large large of it was that they don't have anybody in the band to act as an arranger to suggest where to put certain riffs/ideas to keep it coherent. There are a few examples of prog bands who had member(s) who mainly filled this role. A great example is Dream Theater, as Mike Portnoy is a master at this. And since he's left, while they haven't reached Metallica levels of incoherence, there have been some pretty questionable arrangement/transition choices on both albums. I think Metallica would benefit from a Portnoy/Phil Collins type figure as far as that goes.
 
Mosh said:
Maybe. I always thought a large large of it was that they don't have anybody in the band to act as an arranger to suggest where to put certain riffs/ideas to keep it coherent. There are a few examples of prog bands who had member(s) who mainly filled this role. A great example is Dream Theater, as Mike Portnoy is a master at this. And since he's left, while they haven't reached Metallica levels of incoherence, there have been some pretty questionable arrangement/transition choices on both albums. I think Metallica would benefit from a Portnoy/Phil Collins type figure as far as that goes.
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Typically, arrangement has always been Lars' job. He used to be great at it and he seemed to work well with Bob Rock at the producing helm - they may have argued a lot, but they arranged some very good, simple songs. When given free reign (thanks Rick Rubin), Lars just doesn't have an ear for it anymore.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Typically, arrangement has always been Lars' job. He used to be great at it and he seemed to work well with Bob Rock at the producing helm - they may have argued a lot, but they arranged some very good, simple songs. When given free reign (thanks Rick Rubin), Lars just doesn't have an ear for it anymore.
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Let's not put too much blame on Rick. He brought them back to what they used to do, and the way he works is very effective depending on the right band. He should have cut a bit of Death Magnetic down perhaps but I can't blame him too much.
 
Did Rick Rubin actually do anything? My impression was that his role was to press the record button and not much else.
 
Mosh said:
Did Rick Rubin actually do anything? My impression was that his role was to press the record button and not much else.
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From everything I've heard, he didn't even do that much. He sat down with the band, figured out what they wanted to do, told them what they should be doing, then vanished and let someone else press record.
 
Yea that's what's I heard too. Having trouble finding the source but I'll take your word for it. :p My impression was that Rubin was definitely a huge influence back in the late 80s/90s but he's gotten lazy since then. The sound of recent albums he's been involved with is a testament to that. I understand Death Magnetic was more of a mastering issue, but still that mix ain't great.

Isn't there a documentary about the making of DM? Maybe that'd give more insight on Rubin's involvement.
 
About Rubin..."He kinda produces by absence. He shows up every couple of weeks and listens and then he says "That's great, that needs work, that sucks" and then he goes away and then he comes back two weeks later, literally"

 
Mosh said:
Did Rick Rubin actually do anything? My impression was that his role was to press the record button and not much else.
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That's generally his role but I think for a good reason. He just lets the band get on with it and offers whatever advice he needs to get them back on track. Also he did a good job of making Lars's drum sound tolerable which I more than admire. Lars has been terrible in recent years in the live setting and I imagine a lot of studio engineering was going on to make his sound tolerable on Magnetic (as opposed to St. Anger). He allows bands to do what they do best and that's a good thing for me.

The Flash said:
Not a Slayer fan but Reign in Blood is also a good example of that.
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Thank you saying this. Reign in Blood is such a huge step above the proceeding albums in terms of production and the overall punch to the face. Rubin's job on that was visionary.

MrKnickerbocker said:
From everything I've heard, he didn't even do that much. He sat down with the band, figured out what they wanted to do, told them what they should be doing, then vanished and let someone else press record.
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But like I said that's all he needs to do really. His mixing job was poor, that can be said but as far as organising the band, he did all that was required of him and got them to make some good metal music. I personally enjoy Death Magnetic yet can understand and to some extent agree with all your complaints. But I don't think Rick should be blamed.

SixesAlltheway said:
About Rubin..."He kinda produces by absence. He shows up every couple of weeks and listens and then he says "That's great, that needs work, that sucks" and then he goes away and then he comes back two weeks later, literally"

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And that's why he's a genius.
 
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