METALLICA ALBUM RANKING GAME: FINAL LIST

I'm sorry, @Diesel 11 , I Respect Your Opinion and you're free to oppose what I wrote there; it's definitely not out of the question that you might actually make me look at it differently and appreciate it more (though over time, I've really struggled to get into the record myself - I'd like to like it, so to speak).
 
Hero of the Day, Bleeding Me, and The Outlaw Torn are stellar. Outlaw was my favourite Metallica song for a long time even and may still be. The rest of the album is plodding shades of meh, which does not work in its favor considering how long it is. It was a draining listening. I even found a fondness for Cure and Poor Twisted Me, just because they're a little weirder.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
Anyway, Load. Man, I'm not any tr00 kvlt wanker that'd hate Tullica in the 90s in general, but does this album suck walrus' balls. Of the really good songs, there's Bleeding Me, The House Jack Built and - though it feels kinda underbaked - Until It Sleeps. Throw in Ain't My Bitch as an okay opening rocker (although it's also the first time you can't really take Tullica seriously, with Hetfield's suddenly found Rastafarianism - "It ain't my bit! JAH!" - sorry for making this joke twice, but, you know, different threads for different folks) and, unexpectedly, Mama Said, which is Hetfield being rednecky as fuck but also kinda nice and you get ... well, you get a very good to great EP.
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Load sucks...but the best tracks are The House Jack Built and Mama Said?

 
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8: Reload
9: Load
10: 72 Seasons
11: St. Anger

Total score: 90

Highest score: 11 (@Eddieson)
Lowest score: 2 (@MindRuler @Azas @Jer)

First of all, a note on the trivia game: Reload was one of the 6 #1 ranked albums and one of two albums that I think most guesses were making incorrect assumptions about (in this case, the assumption that nobody would rank ReLoad #1).

Moving on, I thought it was actually pretty funny seeing the surprise over Load's low ranking when these albums might as well have been statistically tied. Reload did perform better, but only by five points. Slight adjustments in a couple lists or different levels of participation would have made a difference here. My general takeaway is that most fans see both albums as a relative low point in Metallica's catalog and there's not a whole lot of differentiation between the two. I would say the main point of controversy is whether people prefer the band trying stuff and not always being successful (Load/Reload) or churning out classic sounding if somewhat bland Metal albums (Death Magnetic/Hardwired). On an Iron Maiden forum, it's not that surprising that preferences are with the latter. But overall as I was alluding to earlier, I wasn't that surprised by the result of Load just because ReLoad's really wasn't that much better.

So what was the difference maker? The obvious difference is that Load did not have any #1 rankings but it did have a #11 ranking. Reload didn't have any #11 rankings, but it did have 1 #1 ranking. But even that isn't the whole story. Reload's #1 ranking and Load's #11 ranking are basically outlier scores as there was only one each. Load also had a pretty impressive high ranking from Diesel. When you remove the highest and lowest scores from each album, both bottom out in the #10 spots, with quite a few second to last place scores for both albums. But when you look at the higher end of the scores, Reload has a couple more top 5 scores. It's mostly statistical noise, which leads to a pretty close score for both albums. One thing that surprised me about Load/Reload, and this played into Reload's slight lead, is how many lists didn't rank the two albums together. One list had Reload #9 and Load #5, another had Reload #10 and Load #5, Eddieson's list had Reload #1 but Load #7. I was pretty surprised at these discrepancies and how common they were (and would love to hear from the members who posted lists like these!). There's not a reliable pattern I can identify here other than the fact that those who had large spreads like that usually ranked Reload a little higher and Load a little lower, but it's very slight.

I strongly think a lot of Reload's success is that it is the more commercial of the two albums. Load is pretty frontloaded with long drawn out songs and slow jams. After Ain't My Bitch I feel like it takes all the way to King Nothing for the album to pick up energy again. Reload starts off very strong with perhaps the most iconic opening seconds to a Metallica album and stays pretty high energy/accessible through the first half. You've got the one two radio friendly punch of Fuel and Memory Remains, the very commercial minded Unforgiven II, and a couple alt rock jams with Better Than You and Slither. I could see that Load maybe has more to offer in terms of variety and experimentation, but generally I think the songwriting is much more accessible and immediate at least on the first half of Reload.

The second half is another story, and I would argue there are several songs on the back half of this album that are much weaker/less memorable than anything on Load. The drop off after Slither is actually pretty incredible. If I had to sum it up, I would say Reload tries to be a more accessible and direct album, which gives it a slight edge to Load in terms of immediacy. Load goes more places though and maybe deserves more credit for making bolder choices . But at the same time, I find Load more of a chore to listen to. Idk though, there isn't really anything on either album that I have much appetite to go back to. For reference, the list follows my rankings almost exactly so far (Load and Reload swapped) but overall I would be happy to never hear any of these bottom four albums ever again.
 
The Unforgiven II was the first Metallica song I ever heard and it made me a fan, so I have a soft spot for ReLoad. This was my Metallica album, despite it not being one of their best. Fuel and The Memory Remains were of course the next two songs I heard. Metallica were singlehandedly responsible for me picking up a guitar, so this album holds a lot of importance for me.

But yeah, it's not great. I ranked Load at #6 and ReLoad at #7, smack in the middle of the discography - where they belong.

The aforementioned 3 songs are all classic hits, Devil's Dance hits really hard, and I love the trio at the end (Fixxxer especially is another 10/10 song). My favorite thing about ReLoad is how well produced and heavy it feels, even when it's lame (re: the pretty terrible Slither, Where the Wild Things Are, and Prince Charming).

I think it's pretty impressive that, although they are two sides of the same coin, ReLoad feels even weirder than Load (which is saying a lot considering Until It Sleeps and Mama Said exist). I agree that it feels somehow more straightforward at the same time, but there is something deeply dark and sinister about this album...something vaguely Tom Waitsian circa Bone Machine or Blood Money...Papa Het feels demonic throughout this album (even when he's just straight blues rocking).

Mosh said:
I would say the main point of controversy is whether people prefer the band trying stuff and not always being successful (Load/Reload) or churning out classic sounding if somewhat bland Metal albums (Death Magnetic/Hardwired).
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Give me the former for Metallica. Once you get out of the golden era, they are at their best (and worst) when they are either experimenting or playing it super safe (Garage, Inc. anybody?)
 
Mosh said:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8: Reload
9: Load
10: 72 Seasons
11: St. Anger

Total score: 90

Highest score: 11 (@Eddieson)
Lowest score: 2 (@MindRuler @Azas @Jer)

First of all, a note on the trivia game: Reload was one of the 6 #1 ranked albums and one of two albums that I think most guesses were making incorrect assumptions about (in this case, the assumption that nobody would rank ReLoad #1).

Moving on, I thought it was actually pretty funny seeing the surprise over Load's low ranking when these albums might as well have been statistically tied. Reload did perform better, but only by five points. Slight adjustments in a couple lists or different levels of participation would have made a difference here. My general takeaway is that most fans see both albums as a relative low point in Metallica's catalog and there's not a whole lot of differentiation between the two. I would say the main point of controversy is whether people prefer the band trying stuff and not always being successful (Load/Reload) or churning out classic sounding if somewhat bland Metal albums (Death Magnetic/Hardwired). On an Iron Maiden forum, it's not that surprising that preferences are with the latter. But overall as I was alluding to earlier, I wasn't that surprised by the result of Load just because ReLoad's really wasn't that much better.

So what was the difference maker? The obvious difference is that Load did not have any #1 rankings but it did have a #11 ranking. Reload didn't have any #11 rankings, but it did have 1 #1 ranking. But even that isn't the whole story. Reload's #1 ranking and Load's #11 ranking are basically outlier scores as there was only one each. Load also had a pretty impressive high ranking from Diesel. When you remove the highest and lowest scores from each album, both bottom out in the #10 spots, with quite a few second to last place scores for both albums. But when you look at the higher end of the scores, Reload has a couple more top 5 scores. It's mostly statistical noise, which leads to a pretty close score for both albums. One thing that surprised me about Load/Reload, and this played into Reload's slight lead, is how many lists didn't rank the two albums together. One list had Reload #9 and Load #5, another had Reload #10 and Load #5, Eddieson's list had Reload #1 but Load #7. I was pretty surprised at these discrepancies and how common they were (and would love to hear from the members who posted lists like these!). There's not a reliable pattern I can identify here other than the fact that those who had large spreads like that usually ranked Reload a little higher and Load a little lower, but it's very slight.

I strongly think a lot of Reload's success is that it is the more commercial of the two albums. Load is pretty frontloaded with long drawn out songs and slow jams. After Ain't My Bitch I feel like it takes all the way to King Nothing for the album to pick up energy again. Reload starts off very strong with perhaps the most iconic opening seconds to a Metallica album and stays pretty high energy/accessible through the first half. You've got the one two radio friendly punch of Fuel and Memory Remains, the very commercial minded Unforgiven II, and a couple alt rock jams with Better Than You and Slither. I could see that Load maybe has more to offer in terms of variety and experimentation, but generally I think the songwriting is much more accessible and immediate at least on the first half of Reload.

The second half is another story, and I would argue there are several songs on the back half of this album that are much weaker/less memorable than anything on Load. The drop off after Slither is actually pretty incredible. If I had to sum it up, I would say Reload tries to be a more accessible and direct album, which gives it a slight edge to Load in terms of immediacy. Load goes more places though and maybe deserves more credit for making bolder choices . But at the same time, I find Load more of a chore to listen to. Idk though, there isn't really anything on either album that I have much appetite to go back to. For reference, the list follows my rankings almost exactly so far (Load and Reload swapped) but overall I would be happy to never hear any of these bottom four albums ever again.
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I knew my lst with Reload at #1 would be surprising, but I always had such a soft spot for Reload. I drown in many tracks, from Fixxxer and Unforgiven II to Low Man Lyric and Where The Wild Things Are. This is such a diverse record, with so many different styles. This is the high point for James' vocals for me, this is just a really three-dimensional record from the first to the last song. When listening through the entire discography this year, even though Ride, Master and Justice are really great albums, Reload just hit differently.

Im curious if my guess of Kill, Ride, Master, Justice, Black Album, and Reload a few pages back was the right guess for the alums with #1 spots. I knew I was the odd one out probably, but I'm curious if the other ones are the "obvious" 5.
 
Eddieson said:
Im curious if my guess of Kill, Ride, Master, Justice, Black Album, and Reload a few pages back was the right guess for the alums with #1 spots. I knew I was the odd one out probably, but I'm curious if the other ones are the "obvious" 5.
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Well you were the only one who called Reload because you had information others had. :D But I would say you are making another critical error in your #1 albums list that a lot of other users are making.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Fixxxer especially is another 10/10 song
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KidInTheDark666 said:
This so much! It could honestly be my favorite Metallica song at this point.
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Eddieson said:
I drown in many tracks, from Fixxxer […]
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I have no idea what album you folks are listening to, but on my disc “Fixxxer” is hot garbage.

Also, “Unforgiven II” is a half-assed retread of a much better song, and it hangs its hat on a terrible pun. It feels like the band is spitting in your face and daring you to enjoy it. I feel sorry for those of you who drank the kool-aid here.
 
"Fixxxer" is solid, I wouldn't give it a 10 but I like a lot of it.

"Unforgiven II" has its moments but it PALES in comparison to the original "Unforgiven". IDK why they decided to write sequels to this song frankly. At least "III" is original.
 
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So, like I said, I had Load as my second last album and Reload is actually my No 4 - which is probably one of the lists with huge spread that Mosh has mentioned. I wonder if it's really because of its more mainstream nature, like he says, because I don't really hear it (apart from Fuel), in fact I'd say it's quite the opposite, but more on that below. But overall, to me it's much more cohesive, more consistent and more atmospheric (inasmuch as it has some kind of unified atmosphere) - it is Tullica's only true "grunge" album.

I was really surprised when I heard both albums for the first time, because I was really meh about Load and I expected Reload to be even worse, but honestly, unlike the former album, there is only one, I repeat - one bad track on the album and that's Slither, which is an inferior remake of Enter Sandman with some disgusting vocal effects and kinda stupid chorus in general - and even that one is mostly listenable (if I understood it correctly, Mosh even mentions it as a highlight).

As for the good songs - there are two great fast rockers (which is already more than on Load) - the famous Fuel and Attitude, which doesn't get mentioned often, probably because especially for people who hate both ReLoads, it must be kinda hard to even push themselves through the entire doubleness, so they probably tend to lose interest towards the end of this album, but I sincerely love Attitude possibly even more than GIMMEFYOOGIMMEFIYAHGIMMEDABAJABAZA!!!

The rest is really an acquired taste - and I definitely don't blame anyone who doesn't like the album as much as I do. Like I said, I'm a really doomy frood (i. e. = I'm more of a doom than thrash bloke) and I came across this album at a time when Alice in Chains were in my top 5 (I still love them, just not as much as back then).

Eddieson said:
Reload just hit differently.
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MrKnickerbocker said:
I think it's pretty impressive that, although they are two sides of the same coin, ReLoad feels even weirder than Load (which is saying a lot considering Until It Sleeps and Mama Said exist). I agree that it feels somehow more straightforward at the same time, but there is something deeply dark and sinister about this album...something vaguely Tom Waitsian circa Bone Machine or Blood Money...Papa Het feels demonic throughout this album (even when he's just straight blues rocking).
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I agree, this is a dark, sombre, sinister album and it's pretty much consistent about it. Pretty much the reason why I immediately liked it back then.

The two "main" ballads are stellar, IMHO. Releasing a sequel song is always dangerous (unless you're, say, Symphony X), but I honestly like every generation of Unforgiven more than the previous one. Yes, II more than I and III the most of them all. The sequel lacks the openly Western stylisation (which is a plus for me) and ... dunno, feels rawer, more bared, the original always felt a bit pretentious to me and I never really liked the original chorus. The Memory Remains is simply great, catchy as fuck and while I get that some consider the Marianne Faithful cameo weird or obnoxious, I personally find it poignant, haunting, memorable.

The third ballad, Low Man's Lyric, is the "weird song" off this album, much like Mama Said was on the previous one, and while I could live without Hetfield trying to sound like a cross between Brad Roberts and Peter Steele, from the very first listen to the album, I couldn't help but notice and like the song. Weird, very weird for Tullica, but nice.

The rest is more or less more of me jam, Devil's Dance has a good slow crunch and lotsa swagger, which you could say about Better Than You As Well. Carpe Diem Baby, again, nice doomy doominess, I think this style suits Tullica quite a lot and it's a pity they would only rarely revisit it afterwards. Wild Things, one of the rare Newstead co-credits (and you can tell, IMHO) reminds me of the Black Album deeper cuts, those brooding, slower, darker songs on the latter half of the album, only more atmospheric, possibly.
With Hetfield annoyed with Ulrich and Hammett trying to piss him off with "pretending they're all gay and shit" and his distaste for the album covers, I wouldn't expect him singing "choking on the bad seed" with such vigour, but here you have it. :ninja: Anyway, a cool, catchy mid-tempo rocker, as befits a lad full of spunk.

And yeah, Fixxxer is quite possibly my favourite Tullica 90s song and probably what The Outlaw Torn was supposed to be on the previous album ... yet twisted into form and vibe of this release, fitting as a perfect closure to this coherent, unified offering.

The other small complaint is that Prince Charming is possibly a tad too overlong for just an okay song, but it is a bit more upbeat and helps drive the album, so that it wouldn't really drown in its slow, sludgy atmospherics.

Overall, I definitely undersold it with
JudasMyGuide said:
So... well, I might agree with James that the Re/Load album covers were stupid in general, but I'd be still more inclined to drink bloody urine than bloody semen, so there.
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because this is not bloody urine, it's a ... snakebite. Which, if you see being sucked by a cute chavette with violet streaks in her hair, it probably has some blackcurrant cordial mixed in as well and then it's called... diesel. :ninja:

MrKnickerbocker said:
The aforementioned 3 songs are all classic hits, Devil's Dance hits really hard, and I love the trio at the end (Fixxxer especially is another 10/10 song). My favorite thing about ReLoad is how well produced and heavy it feels, even when it's lame (re: the pretty terrible Slither, Where the Wild Things Are, and Prince Charming).
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Yes, thank you.


Also, @Eddieson thank you for rating it this high, I didn't have it as number one, but it certainly needs more love.

KidInTheDark666 said:
This so much! It could honestly be my favorite Metallica song at this point.
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Mate, you're on fire, keep this on and I'll completely forget and forgive your nominations for the Song Cup. :ninja:


Jer said:
“Fixxxer” is hot garbage.
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I fail to hear any harsh vocals, must listen to it again :ninja:
 
There's more "sludge" here than on Load, which I like, it has more identity. Unfortunately the weak songs are closer to "bad" than to Load's "yet another midtempo song". Better Than You, Carpe Diem Baby, and Bad Seed are the main offenders. Slither is not one of them, it was always my favourite black sheep of the band. Yes, it's a rip-off of Enter Sandman. So? Since when is Enter Sandman bad? Since when are snakes uncool? It grooves more naturally than Devil's Dance, which is a nice song too but a little forced perhaps.

The Memory Remains, Where the Wild Things Are and Low Man's Lyric complete the "odd" package, all strong and unique. Low Man is a little long. Fuel is iconic, and the other two rockers are... fine. Prince Charming and Attitude both have the edginess that can make them my favourite or least favourite songs on the album depending on the day.

Then there's Fixxxer. Jer, what are you smoking, this is a good song. Worthy next to the Load epics. Memorable lyrics and sfx, and it summarizes the album very well, too. Two. Have you forgotten about The Unforgiven, too? God that's so eye-rolling. Song stands on the shoulders of giants, but once again, this doesn't make it bad, just cheaper. I like it both as a song and as an upbeat take on the original.
#9 on my list, this album is too uneven.
 
Shmoolikipod said:
There's more "sludge" here than on Load, which I like, it has more identity.
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Yep.

Shmoolikipod said:
Yes, it's a rip-off of Enter Sandman. So? Since when is Enter Sandman bad?
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It's like, I really love butter chicken and my wifey used to love it as well, until we had that stomach flu in summer and she could experience it regurgitated. I believe the same might be said about Enter Sandman, maybe?

Shmoolikipod said:
Since when are snakes uncool?
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Since Eden, I guess.

:p
 
JudasMyGuide said:
It's like, I really love butter chicken and my wifey used to love it as well, until we had that stomach flu in summer and she could experience it regurgitated. I believe the same might be said about Enter Sandman, maybe?
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I'll spare the details, but if I'm still eating toasts after that sandwich from three weeks ago and the consequences of eating it, we'll stay in disagreement about food/song PTSD. :P
JudasMyGuide said:
Since Eden, I guess.

:p
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Nice :D
 
I didn’t know this one was out yet..

However, the start here was a little surprising I think. So here are my thoughts so far (as a Metallica fan for almost 25 years:

- I agree St. Anger is their worst of their main albums. I really hate Lulu, but I understand it is not part of this game. St. Anger have a couple of good moments here and there, and I don’t mind the raw production really. Some kind of monster, the title track and The unnamed feeling are my favorites. But some songs are poor of course. I understand the concept, but it was a commercial suicide at the time.

- 72 seasons so low!? Well, it have some forgetable songs, but also some that kick more balls than Hardwired as well. Great riffs!

- Load/Reload, well this is the first time I’ve seen Reload over Load. Load have overall better songs, lyrics, variation, in general more solid in my opinion. The first four on Reload are excellent, Bad seed and Low man’s lyric are nice, but the rest is B-side material
 
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7: Hardwired...To Self Destruct
8: Reload
9: Load
10: 72 Seasons
11: St. Anger

Total score: 102

Highest score: 9 (@Shmoolikipod)
Lowest score: 2 (@Diesel 11)

To start things out this one, a note on the trivia game. This was in fact the only Metallica album to not receive either a #1 or a #11 ranking, possibly solidifying its place as Metallica's most "mid" album. If you dig into the non outlier scores (#3 and #10 respectively), the album largely tops out at #5 and bottoms out at #8. There aren't very many lists that put the album any higher or lower, so the album landing somewhere in the middle tier is no surprise. I actually think the general placement and lack of strong feelings one way or another kinda sums up the album quite well. There's nothing blatantly offensive on this album, which automatically gives it an edge over several other Metallica albums, but it lacks a lot of clear standout moments for the hardcore fans to sink their teeth into, unlike something like Death Magnetic which has at least one or two songs that the entire fanbase could get behind. Hardwired has Spit Out the Bone which is indeed a great track, but you have to go through eleven songs and two discs to get there.

My take on Hardwired is that it is a perfectly acceptable album and the exact type of album you would expect a band at Metallica's caliber and age to release. The problem is that Metallica releases albums so rarely that each album has a lot riding on it. If this was part of the discography of a band that releases more frequently (such as AC/DC, Motorhead, even Maiden), I think the album would be seen a little bit more positively as expectations would likely be more level. As it is, it's a pretty standard fare Metal albums with a few highlights and some great riffs, but it's impossible to listen to this album without asking whether it was worth the almost decade long wait. Add to that the weird double album marketing ploy which did nothing other than draw more attention to how much filler is on this album (drop one song and make it a single disc and there's yet another situation where people potentially have a way different impression of the album).

Metallica is an interesting case study because they have explored both extremes for a Metal band. They "sold out" and tried making music that was more commercial or more influenced by current music trends and they also tried being a legacy band and releasing throwback sounding music as a way of pandering to fans demands. Based on how Metallica's post-Black Album material has been sorted so far, it's hard to say whether either outcome was really optimal for them. Hardwired is about 12 points stronger than Reload, which is really not that much of a gap. I think Hardwired/Death Magnetic get an edge over Load/Reload for being more Metal, but really Hardwired has a lot of the same flaws as those 90s albums. Similar lack of focus, middle tier production and performances, lots of filler. It's basically two sides of the same coin. For me I will always prefer Hardwired over Load/Reload because I prefer Metallica playing Metal, but it's not a hill I would die on. Based on how people ranked these albums, it seems like most Maidenfans feel the same way (regardless of what side of the Metallica dividing line they fall on).
 
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