Mental Health Thread

[JudasMyGuide]

I agree if we're talking about habitual drinking. But there are also cases when it's not wrong to drink to drown your sorrows. There have been cases in which I just felt miserable and I felt too comfortable in wallowing in my sorrow to be cheered up in any conventional way, but going to a party and getting completely wasted helped. Obviously, if this becomes a habit, there's a deeper lying problem to be addressed. But if you're stuck moping over a rejection or the fact that you've had a week where everything seems to go wrong, it can help. It's not the solution, it's not the answer, and it's not for everyone. But if you've had a shitty week and you just want to get wasted on the Friday to forget about it, it makes it worse if you feel guilty about it.

I can think of two occasions in my life where this happened, and obviously I'm still around and haven't turned into an alcoholic. On the first occasion I woke up the next day with a massive hangover and a Venetian mask in my bed and I don't remember where it came from. The second occasion resulted in what I thought was an embarrassing Facebook post (which I have since deleted) that amused a few people and that was it.

Again: If you notice you're doing this often, it's a problem and your life needs fixing. I'm just saying such an absolute statement involving the word "never" has the potential to spawn guilt trips that can make things worse.

Hmm... I thought about this and had a really long answer written, but then I realised that's probably not the most desirable thing, so I'll give two shorter answers, one in jest, the other decidedly less so.

So:

1. Well, if you really wish to be like the grey-faced gin-drinker in the slum, who am I to stop you?

2. you are arguing more with Chesterton than with me, and he:
- was no stranger to hyperbole
- was mainly talking about the habitual approach. The general overview.

Honestly, if saying a "general never" will put a certain person on a scrupulous guilt trip when breaking it, I'm not sure such person should drink to remedy any ailments at all.


That said, and I'm sorry if the following will be too Waughian, too acerbic, too unfriendly or too triumphalist or condescending, for I am certainly all of those things, yet I don't intend any actual malice, believe me or not:

Spoiler

You mention guilt as an important factor in psychological problems and I certainly agree, but I often get the feeling that secular people really have no good remedies for the altogether desirable, important and blessed thing of guilt, therefore they often try to eliminate it altogether, which leads only to a wicked world and mental maladies.

 

[Brigantium]

I think where a one off 'drown your sorrows' is concerned, a bit like 'a good night out with mates' that's a bit different to using alcohol itself as a regular prop.

The advice I was getting was to knock back a few glasses of wine every night to chill out,. It's become a kind of social norm for women to decompress by pampering themselves alone with wine, chocolates, Netflix etc. Now that sounds like a bad idea to me, not least when my alcohol tolerance levels are so low (remember kittengate).

Going out with friends would be a lot more healthy IMO.

Interesting take on guilt. I know someone religious who has little to no guilt at all, sadly. As far as he's concerned he says a few nice things and everything is forgiven. Its gone out of his mind completely.

The psychological therapy approach to guilt depends what guilt is about. If you feel guilty for not being a doormat to everyone, then yeah, the goal would be to reason with your own thinking about this.

Where forensic psychology is concerned, they might try to get offenders to understand their actions, but also to recognise they were wrong.

A lot of mental health issues are more about attachment, acceptance and autonomy.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

A lot of mental health issues are more about attachment, acceptance and autonomy.

I never presumed it to be all-encompassing.

Also - I'm not a full psychologist, nor would I want to be, but I had to get a degree as a part of my theological degree (along with a course in pedagogy) and therefore I was confronted with also the general academical milieu - and what I find disconcerting is the fact that there are many different approaches to psychology and overall mental well-being, these are "official", taught in psych courses, yet when it comes to practice, it always streamlines into a certain style which is always the same, it is a mishmash of various stuff and while it can be helpful, I don't think it's necessarily the best thing ever.
(I say this as someone who had experience with psychologists myself + then studied it)

For example, the absolutely essential theory and practice of Frankl is acknowledged, taught at universities, but - at least here - you very rarely come across a psychologist that would actually put it in practice.

Hopefully, you have it better abroad.

 

[Brigantium]

In primary healthcare and low-intervention mental healthcare, yes, they do water down and combine approaches, usually to the quickest and cheapest treatments. It's not good, and what results in people being simultaneously told to ground themselves and practice mindfulness. And low impact self guided CBT always being the first thing offered, way ahead of any attempt to work out what is actually going on and how to address it.

In psychology itself, like pretty much any academic field, there are distinct conflicting approaches, and as far as I'm aware, resistance to reaching compromises that would result in incompatible approaches being combined.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Yep, that's what I meant. Thankfully, almost by a mistake, back then I finally found a psychologist that actually did something different - she was pretty serious about holistic psychology (I guess she was well-versed in Gestalt psych originally) and she had a massive cred of working abroad under some really big name (which unfortunately I can't recall anymore, so many years later), actually helping people with severe facial disfigurements and suchlike.

And she also knew about Frankl, for example, and she always described "hey, normally your standard psychologist would recommend this from the CBT, or they would recommend this and that, if you want to, you might try it, but in case you wanted to go that route all the way, let me give you a recommendation to this psychologist, who is better in that particular area, but I'd personally recommend to go with ...."
Which was interesting and honestly, it also felt really trustworthy.

What I find absolutely unique and what I really praise her for is that although an atheist herself (and working in a field that unfortunately has a strong atheist/anti-theist pedigree), she recognised that the problems I had, "holistically", resulted from not only a bad mental health habits and the general state of my life back then, but also from the fact I lack a spiritual anchor as well. That I strive for the metaphysical and wither without it, yet I don't even realise that.
So, yes, that my Ψυχή (man, it's even in the name of the field) needed also the healthy diet of a good protein. Actually, it was she who helped me realise that I need to go on another journey.

I say it because this ability to "step out" of her own category, in both the purely psychological area and the ... eh, "competition" (it shouldn't be, mind you, but you know what I mean) one made her feel really trustworthy, principled, honourable, truthful, ethical.

It made her a great psychologist, in my book, to put it shortly.

 

[Brigantium]

Sounds very good indeed. They seem to be better at recognising spiritual needs in most things I've read recently, or at the very least the social and community aspects of religion.

 

[Perun]

1. Well, if you really wish to be like the grey-faced gin-drinker in the slum, who am I to stop you?

I'm not, that's actually my point. As of now, I maybe drink once a month on average. Even though, unlike in my mid-twenties, there are things that trouble me that I can't do anything about.

2. you are arguing more with Chesterton than with me, and he:
- was no stranger to hyperbole
- was mainly talking about the habitual approach. The general overview.

Well yeah, but I did have a problem with his use of "never", which indicates that, even if he may have intended to talk about the habitual approach, his statement nevertheless included every other approach.

Honestly, if saying a "general never" will put a certain person on a scrupulous guilt trip when breaking it, I'm not sure such person should drink to remedy any ailments at all.

Here's how I meant it: A guy feels bad. He got dumped by his girlfriend, didn't get a job he wanted, failed an exam, whatever. Yes, in the long run it's an important learning process, it strengthens his character, it's an opportunity to fix himself. Sure. But for the very evening of that day, knowing this won't make him feel better. He has several options: Stay at home and brood; go out and see if any sober activity will help, or get pissed with his mates and just forget about it until the sun rises the next day. What the hell is wrong with the last approach? And here's the problem: If you guilt him into not doing, or worse, shame him for doing it, because "alcohol doesn't solve any problems" or "this will open the path to hell", it accomplishes nothing other than making him feel worse on that evening. Who gains anything from this?

You mention guilt as an important factor in psychological problems and I certainly agree, but I often get the feeling that secular people really have no good remedies for the altogether desirable, important and blessed thing of guilt, therefore they often try to eliminate it altogether, which leads only to a wicked world and mental maladies.

Well, the problem with making assumptions about me based on the "secular" box you're putting me in is that you don't know all that much about me and may be wrong here. A feeling of guilt can have positive effects. I just don't see the point in making someone feel guilty about something so insignificant as getting wasted one evening because he had a shitty week. The only person who comes out of this with a better feeling about themselves is the person doing the shaming. Yes, if it's a habit it is different. But I'm not talking about a habit.

 

[LooseCannon]

I like Chesterson, but one cannot quote a dead man and then shrug off opposition to the quoted point as "arguing with the dead man". That's a really convenient way to get out of responsibility for one's own point of view.

Anyway, alcohol isn't a magic wand that pops in and fixes things, nor is it a magic wand that pops in and makes people worse. If you're having a rough go of it and you get fucked up and then you're feeling better, congrats! It works for you in that situation.

Alcohol abuse, alcoholism, is a form of addiction, which is a much different thing than any sort of non-standard drinking.

 

[Saapanael]

He has several options: Stay at home and brood; go out and see if any sober activity will help, or get pissed with his mates and just forget about it until the sun rises the next day.

Or get wasted alone if he has no mates.

 

[Magnus]

As of now, I maybe drink once a month on average.

Because you left Sofia, that's why.

 

[____no5]

Sofia in Greek and the accent in i means wisdom. Leaving wisdom is unwise.

 

[Brigantium]

Or get wasted alone if he has no mates.

Yeah, that's the slippery slope path that worries me.

Back to the counselling, though - I've managed to get a referral to a free service that'll provide face to face counselling sessions. It's provided through a charity but partly NHS funded I think. There's a two month waiting list which is fine with me. I expected it to be six or more.

In they meantime they offer group CBT sessions on Zoom, which is better than nothing, although I can probably guess at most of the content in advance.

Group sessions are okay if everyone cooperates, not so good if one vocal attendee takes the floor and won't let anyone else get a word in.

 

[Saapanael]

What to do when you’re at a dead end? I feel like I’ve made all the wrong choices I could and the only chance left to redeem myself is to commit suicide.

 

[____no5]

@Saapanael forget it. You are too young, you can fail and start again and fail and start again and again and again. Suicide is out of the question for the next 15 -20 years. You'll get it right by then.

 

[Saapanael]

I’m stuck in a self-destructive cycle and feel my lifeforce withering away day by day. Sometimes I think I don’t even want to be well anymore. But I really appreciate the thought, @____no5.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Hey, come on, this is where the fun stops. Believe me, I've been there, my wife's been there, I know you can't see it from the "inside", but once you manage to break the circle, you won't believe it yourself.

If this is your state of mind, please take it really seriously and please, I beg you very much, seek professional help.

You are worth it, you still have a lot of beauty and amazing stuff ahead of you. Life can and will be tough, but it is worth living and it is possible to feel joy. You can find the purpose.

This is not PR bullshit, this is genuine concern, my worldview and experience.

Whether you believe it or not, you are beloved, you have a purpose and I will be thinking of and praying for you.

EDIT: Also from experience:

It really does wonders if you set up a regime for yourself. I have it on good authority that many people start to have psychic issues in college, when there is a general freer structure of life, their reward receptors are starving (at least starving on actual accomplishments of some value) and so on.
I don't know what your exact situation is, but it definitely helps if you start going to sleep at a fixed time, if you try to schedule your day at least a little (with simple, easy things that you can check off), lay off any drugs you might be abusing, including caffeine and sugar, restrict your time on social media, etc.

 

[Saapanael]

Hey, come on, this is where the fun stops. Believe me, I've been there, my wife's been there, I know you can't see it from the "inside", but once you manage to break the circle, you won't believe it yourself.

If this is your state of mind, please take it really seriously and please, I beg you very much, seek professional help.

You are worth it, you still have a lot of beauty and amazing stuff ahead of you. Life can and will be tough, but it is worth living and it is possible to feel joy. You can find the purpose.

This is not PR bullshit, this is genuine concern, my worldview and experience.

Whether you believe it or not, you are beloved, you have a purpose and I will be thinking of and praying for you.

EDIT: Also from experience:

It really does wonders if you set up a regime for yourself. I have it on good authority that many people start to have psychic issues in college, when there is a general freer structure of life, their reward receptors are starving (at least starving on actual accomplishments of some value) and so on.
I don't know what your exact situation is, but it definitely helps if you start going to sleep at a fixed time, if you try to schedule your day at least a little (with simple, easy things that you can check off), lay off any drugs you might be abusing, including caffeine and sugar, restrict your time on social media, etc.

You convinced me to book a consultation. Surprisingly, I got a time already for December 20th, it was the only time left for this month.

About your last paragraph, I’m very aware that a large part of why I’m feeling so bad is because I lack discipline. Getting high and drunk in the evening is the only thing I enjoy, and watching TV in that state till late at night is a recipe for disaster. When I work out and get a good sleep, then the next day can be fantastic. But then the next day I’ll be straight-up suicidal. And these fluctuations have become more frequent and uncontrollable. I feel like there are two halves of me, that are trying to tear each other apart. As a result, I’ve become frustrated, anxious and apathetic. And I feel so damn alone that it’s killing me. Sure, there are people around me, but they don’t understand. No one understands the conflict.

 

[Brigantium]

Aw Saap, it's heartbreaking to read this, feel free to message me whenever if it helps - I think I'm Friends with you on Facebook too, so you'd be able to use Messenger.

All the things you describe - feeling at a dead end, feeling it's down to conscious choices you've made, and feeling like you want to end your life - sound very much like symptoms of depression. In fact, the feeling alone or disconnected despite having people around you is also a classic depression symptom. That means rather than the way you feel being 100% accurate about your life, some or even most of the way you feel could actually be a symptom of a health condition.

I think you've done the right thing by seeking professional help It's a slow process and it can be hard to stick by when you want those feelings to go away or subside, but it can be changed. Looking at everything you do as a (small?) step towards improving things, even if it's trying out and ruling out one form of therapy or treatment in favour of a more effective one, can be helpful. And becoming compassionate and sympathetic to yourself and your needs and feelings can also be a good starting point - not mentally beating yourself up for the way you feel right now or your basic emotional needs.

 

[MindRuler]

You´ve done the right thing to book that appointment @Saapanael . Professional help is the only possible solution. I really hope you start to feeling better about things in your life soon. It´s also really heartwarming to see all the reactions here. Take care man!

 

[The_7th_one]

You said you’re at a dead end. You must to think it’s a new begining. You must to be like a Phoenix, you must raise from your private hell man. I think a therapist can help you and guide you to fight your demons and find yourself as the unique and beautiful people you are.
As Monty Python says: Always look on the bright side of life.

You’ve got friends here
Get strong saap!