Men = Women ?? Not always...

Mmm...Donuts said:
In a way, the best way to have equality among sexes is not to judge them by men or women, but as a fellow member of the human race, forget all gender, treat them as a living, breathing, homo sapiens sapiens.
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Second that. Heck, I hold doors open, but only for wizened old ladies with walkers.
 
char_da_harlot said:
Yes that would be weird.  To forget all gender?  I think not.  Why forget of who we are? 
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Again, WHY would that be odd? And who says we are FORGETTING gender? First off, GENDER is a socially constructed notion SEX (male, female) is biological and there are AT LEAST 5 of them (hemaphrodital mutations included of course). Anywho, that's another issue. We are merely treating each other as EQUALS. Many "Chivalrous" acts work on the assumption of women being "weaker" in an inept type of way, which is demeaning. Just think of your parents still treating you like you are 5 years old, insulting isn't it?
 
Don't forget that on average, women are physically weaker than men. I'm not saying they can't open a door, but it's a fact that it's easier for me to carry a heavy bag groceries home than it is for my girlfriend. Sure, I can understand why such an act could be demeaning, but in more ways than one, it's fairly rational.

Women and men are created differently. Our brains work differently, our bodies work differently, and as anyone who's ever been in a long term relationship knows: our emotions work differently too. I think denying this in the name of equality is counter-productive.

Regardless of whether or not my sense of gender is created socially or if it's the biological part that makes a difference, I think it's important to realise that gender and sex is a large part of anyone's identity. Try telling any transgender person that gender shouldn't be a part of our identity.
 
Jesus tap-dancing Christ!!!!! Am I in the twighlight zone or something? I never said we weren't biologically different, and frankly that is IRRELEVANT when we are talking about EQUALITY. Equality is not just carrying a heavy grocery bag for your girlfriend (which she can carry herself btw, ever tried carrying her purse? 'nuff said). It is about equal pay for equal work, benefits, not being seen, used or potrayed as PURELY sex objects, etc. In today's society only few jobs require physical requirements that women can't perform, like firemen have to be able to carry X amount of weight, and that job descriminates among men as well, so whatever.
 
Onhell said:
Many "Chivalrous" acts work on the assumption of women being "weaker" in an inept type of way, which is demeaning.
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Many chivalrous actions work on the assumption one simply wants to be polite and help. There is nothing wrong, or demeaning, to anyone to offer help - whether that be to simply open a door or indeed carry someone else's bag. It's more demeaning, though, to let the door close into the other person's face.

Surely we can all see that and just get on with our lives rather than treading on eggshells wondering whether your offer of help is to be seen as some sort of act of superiority. Both men and women need to understand that.
 
Albie said:
Many chivalrous actions work on the assumption one simply wants to be polite and help.
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Not true. Our modern concept of "chivalry" comes from the concept of courtly love which was, is and will be sexist to no end. you can be polite if you hold the door open to everyone, not just women. THAT is being polite.
 
Onhell said:
you can be polite if you hold the door open to everyone, not just women. THAT is being polite.
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Maybe it's because I don't distinguish between who the hell I offer a helping hand to - so, in my case the use of the word chivalrous is perhaps incorrect. What I would do in these situations, that may or may not be classed as being chivalrous, is out of politeness - nothing more.
 
What a nice threads ! If one we had told me that could be possible...  :)

So, to give my opinion, I just say that men needs women & women needs men. It's the equation. They can't live separately, they just have to be together.

It's Mother Nature who want this. Any others explanantions could makes better answer. After that, it's more, not education, but attitude. Everybody has a different attitude. Everyone has his own attitude. Everyone is different on many point but try to get equal between them.

The Naturs Laws are so difficult to explain & to understand sometimes. We just have to admit it.  :bigsmile:
 
I think chivalry is perfectly compatible with today's society. Chivalry is only seen as sexist because it was practiced during sexist times. Chivalry is based on the principle of having an obligation to help others whenever possible. There's no reason why this idea needs to be paired with sexist beliefs as it was in the past.

The misconception most people have is that chivalry is inherently masculine. I see no reason why chivalry and the principles behind it can't be practiced by both sexes in today's society.
 
Indeed, though here in Cebu my girl friends will eat any of us guys who aren't chivalrous. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, but you can't expect guys to be chivalrous all the time. Chivalry isn't equal to men, anyone can do it to well, random act of good will?

It's pretty hypocritical for women to expect chivalrous attitude without even displaying a bit themselves, it's kinda appalling for them to be full of it.
 
Helphyre said:
I think chivalry is perfectly compatible with today's society. Chivalry is only seen as sexist because it was practiced during sexist times. Chivalry is based on the principle of having an obligation to help others whenever possible. There's no reason why this idea needs to be paired with sexist beliefs as it was in the past.
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I'll be nice and simply say you need a refresher course on courtly love and medieval society...

@Albie, don't get pissy, I know I'm a bit.... pushy, but zimmer down :D point taken
 
Well, it is all relative I suppose, compared to how others (including myself) blow up, no you weren't. But I've never seen you like that hehe.
 
I can only think it came across different to the way I meant it. It really wasn't meant to sound pissy. Sorry. :)
 
Onhell said:
I'll be nice and simply say you need a refresher course on courtly love and medieval society...

Fair enough, what I'm describing probably isn't the most accurate definition of chivalry. But what bothers me is that people these days are usually so obsessed with self-reliance (which is usually a good thing in my opinion) that they often misinterpret a helping hand as an act of dominance. And generally, when interactions between people are seen merely as power relationships, the negative aspects are emphasized over the positive.

oops, that wasn't all supposed to be a quote. i have no idea how to change that.
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Very true. I really like what Albie said, about not even paying attention to whom you are being polite to as long as you are being polite. Opening the door for a woman, old person, man, boy whatever, as long as the polite act of opening the door is done. Picking up keys or change, etc. I think it is important to be aware of the dominance and power aspect in a relationship so one doesn't get stuck in a one-sided relationship, but for nothing else, there are other things involved.
 
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