Maiden’s political silence

[____no5]

The other piece is that we're living through a challenging time in history, when there's a very clear-cut choice as to who is right, and who is wrong, and we know from history that those who pick the wrong side or say nothing are going to end up being remembered for those choices. We've been down this road before.

Not always true. For countries or individuals. History is written by the winners. And sins can be washed away accordingly. Two of the biggest fighters of Nazis: Russia & Serbia. The countries that let Nazis pass or even campaigned with them: Too many to mention.
And who remembers or even seem to care about IKEA, BOSS, SAP, BMW, Siemens and Volkswagen?

In Greece many if not most of the Nazi fighters had to leave the country as immigrants after WWII, most to rebuild Germany, as you had to be given a “Certificate of Right Beliefs” to find a job. And most of the people who fought were leftists, thus no Cert. Many collaborators on the other hand became rich. If you belonged to the Communist party you had no future until 1974. Napalm bombs were literally proto-tested during the civil war in Greece on people who previously fought Nazis.
The above are little known to the West as there were part of the other narrative.

Greece denounced most of the money Germany had to pay as War penalties. Decades later it didn’t matter and the country was made an example during 2010 -2015 for the others to see. 5% of the total population, this time the most educated and skilled, left the country once again.

 

[LooseCannon]

Not always true.

I didn't say it was always true. I was talking in reference to this specific event, where there is one country who is the blatant, obvious aggressor and another country that, while having lots of problems, deserves the integrity of their borders and the national self-determination to sort it out on their own.

History is written by the winners.

This is blatantly false. History is written by subsequent generations for reasons of their own desire. Rome's history was written to favour those then in power, whether or not they were the "winners" of the time. The Lost Cause movement in the USA spent generations convincing people that the US Civil War wasn't about slavery. Admiration of Nazis in military circles today continues to last on. History is not some sort of monolith.

Two of the biggest fighters of Nazis: Russia & Serbia.

What's this got to do with anything? What does any of this have to do with Nazis? This whole post is a big bunch of whataboutism. So the Russians fought Nazis and Greece got a hard deal, how does that impact the fact that Putin invaded Ukraine for exercising their national right to self-determination?

 

[Perun]

Not always true. For countries or individuals. History is written by the winners. And sins can be washed away accordingly. Two of the biggest fighters of Nazis: Russia & Serbia. The countries that let Nazis pass or even campaigned with them: Too many to mention.
And who remembers or even seem to care about IKEA, BOSS, SAP, BMW, Siemens and Volkswagen?

What are you getting at here?

 

[Azas]

___no5 - the force of 'vatnik' (pro russian brainwashed man) is strong with this one.

 

[Flaming Blimp Crash]

Well, Bruce, who is probably the only one who would state something, is somewhere in the US doing his eternal book tour.

Meanwhile, Xi Smallwood and Li Harris, probably think that silence is the best way to keep fans.

Bruce or management'd have to pull that question for him for the 'encore.'

 

[Black Abyss Babe]

I'm not getting what the big deal is here. Yes, things are being in done Ukraine that should not be done anywhere - that much is obvious - but I fail to see how this situation is ameliorated by an endless stream of condemnatory statements from people miles away who can't do anything about it. Or indeed by villification of people whose fault it is not.

Lets face it: if Putin cared what anyone in the West thought he'd never have begun this. Does recognition by the average joe in the street somehow impose a responsibility to give an opinion on everything? Or has the default assumption now become that someone must condone if they fail to actively condemn?

The world's gone mad

 

[Spaldy]

I suspect we'll hear something from Bruce when they hit the stage in a couple of months. Probably while introducing one of their many war themed songs.

I mean, The Trooper is literally about Crimea/Ukraine and Russia...

 

[____no5]

What's this got to do with anything? What does any of this have to do with Nazis? This whole post is a big bunch of whataboutism. So the Russians fought Nazis and Greece got a hard deal, how does that impact the fact that Putin invaded Ukraine for exercising their national right to self-determination?

It was not about Putin or Ukraine. My post was about wrong /right side of history and the fact that it’s not always rewarded appropriately. Russia & Serbia took a hit in public opinion’s mind. For Russia especially that was quite and maybe unfairly early. So I used it as a contrast to start my post: Russia suffers huge loses fighting Hitler, yet still the bad guy in West’s mind. Other countries went with him, nothing.

I used Nazis as a relevantly recent and well known example. Also because it was linked with Greek civil war. I started my post with some well known facts and countries.

What are you getting at here?

Same as above, Perun.

 

[____no5]

I suspect we'll hear something from Bruce when they hit the stage in a couple of months. Probably while introducing one of their many war themed songs.

I mean, The Trooper is literally about Crimea/Ukraine and Russia...

That for sure. It would be very appropriate during The Trooper. Has at any time been a long spoken intro for that song? What it comes to mind is Bruce screaming The Trooper and song begins.
I suspect that as more groups and artists will speak out Maiden will be more pressed to do this, too.

I'm not getting what the big deal is here. Yes, things are being in done Ukraine that should not be done anywhere - that much is obvious - but I fail to see how this situation is ameliorated by an endless stream of condemnatory statements from people miles away who can't do anything about it. Or indeed by villification of people whose fault it is not.

Maybe it is. The power of public opinion is not to be underestimated.

 

[Iron Lurker]

I suspect we'll hear something from Bruce when they hit the stage in a couple of months. Probably while introducing one of their many war themed songs.

I mean, The Trooper is literally about Crimea/Ukraine and Russia...

Think he might wave the Ukrainian flag?

 

[TheTalisman]

These Colours Don't Run?

Do you want a public statement like that from the band or something?

 

[whitespider]

Think he might wave the Ukrainian flag?

To be honest I'd be surprised if they play it. Given the reports are they are dropping 3 songs to accommodate 3 from Senjutsu I can see Trooper being dropped for Stratego. Might not have been their original choice to do this but I have a feeling they might now.

They don't play Trooper in Belfast I think presently anyway.

 

[GhostofCain]

To be honest I'd be surprised if they play it. Given the reports are they are dropping 3 songs to accommodate 3 from Senjutsu I can see Trooper being dropped for Stratego. Might not have been their original choice to do this but I have a feeling they might now.

They don't play Trooper in Belfast I think presently anyway.

I don’t think they’ll drop the beer song from the setlist.

 

[srfc]

They don't play Trooper in Belfast I think presently anyway.

They did in 2018

 

[Perun]

They always play The Trooper in Belfast and Ireland. The only question is whether Bruce uses the British flag prop, because there was some sort of incident back in 2003.

 

[GhostofCain]

They always play The Trooper in Belfast and Ireland. The only question is whether Bruce uses the British flag prop, because there was some sort of incident back in 2003.

They dropped it from the set in 2011… They were asked not to use the flag as a prop (apparently there were some regulations in place about using any flags in public places) and Bruce allegedly said “No flag? No song”, hence the shorter set that night.

 

[Cat Milk Supreme]

They always play The Trooper in Belfast and Ireland. The only question is whether Bruce uses the British flag prop, because there was some sort of incident back in 2003.

The dropped it for the Belfast show in 2010 or 2011. It was in the set in 2005, I was at the gig but cant remember if he waved the flag. I dont recall any booing. Maybe srfc has a better memory of it.
It was also in the set in Dublin 2016 but I wasn't there so don't know about flags/boos.

 

[GhostofCain]

Back in the day, coming from a band like Rage against the machine or similar bands, of course we expect them to make their opinion known asap because they're a political and if they didn't then they could be called cowards...Maiden, not really or unless after 40 years they totally decide to change the way they handle things...

I'd say there is a huge gap between wearing your politics on your sleeve like Rage Against the Machine and referring to the invasion of a country as "the ongoing situation in Ukraine"...

At the end of the day Maiden are a business and they have decided to deal with the cancellation of the shows with that wording. I doubt they care about what the fans think about this.

 

[____no5]

I'd say there is a huge gap between wearing your politics on your sleeve like Rage Against the Machine and referring to the invasion of a country as "the ongoing situation in Ukraine"...

At the end of the day Maiden are a business and they have decided to deal with the cancellation of the shows with that wording. I doubt they care about what the fans think about this.

They do care. How could they not? They probably thought that current (carefully selected) phasing best represents their strategy and Maiden brand at this moment.

 

[Spaldy]

They dropped it from the set in 2011… They were asked not to use the flag as a prop (apparently there were some regulations in place about using any flags in public places) and Bruce allegedly said “No flag? No song”, hence the shorter set that night.