Libya in new hands

Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

That town needs the most humanitarian help at this point. Most people are hiding in their cellars, and have lack of electricity and other needs.

Pure humanitarian help, but it'd be handy if the people who go in there would be protected.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Stallion Duck said:
I don't know which side I would take. I'm surprised to see Obama on the arming rebels side though.

Maybe arming the rebels would make progress. It wouldn't hurt to try. And if they are there to protect the people,wouldn't arming them be a way to protect them?
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We don't know who the rebels are. It would be a BAD IDEA. I don't even agree that we should be getting involved, other than to protect civilians from Khadaffi's forces from strafing them. Any other involvement by the USA would lead to yet another quagmire in a Muslim nation and may come back to bite us in the ass. Libya is not an imminent threat but may become one if it destabilizes. We could be looking at another Somalia if that were to happen.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Yea someone told me today that it is possible that there might be Taliban helping the Rebels. So I am going to go with NO to arming the Rebels.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Stallion Duck said:
Yea someone told me today that it is possible that there might be Taliban helping the Rebels. So I am going to go with NO to arming the Rebels.
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...because someone told you that it is possible that there might be Taleban helping the rebels? For all you know, this unfounded rumour might mean that some Taleban are coming to Libya with guns although nobody wants them and nobody asked for them. Besides, how do you expect that to work? Where are those Taleban supposed to come from, and how are they supposed to get into Libya? There is no bottomless, worldwide pool of Taleban fighters to reach into and grab your share out. Taleban are Afghan fighters whose ideology is a combination of Pashto nationalism and Wahhabi Islamism. They don't even have an interest in Arab affairs, especially not when they have foreign troops in their own countries.

I think you guys are going a bit far with expecting the rebels to be an organised group with a clear ideology. I think all we have at our hands here are a bunch of people who just want Qaddafi gone and will do their utmost to achieve that goal. Maybe there are a few nutcases among them, but for the moment, all these rebels want is freedom. You know, that thing we were born into.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

If Khadaffi is overthrown, will Libya be a better place? The whole premise of the airstrikes was to try and help the civillians who were being slaughtered. It was not to be a supplemental air force for the rebels. We don't know who the rebels are. Just like Bush and Company did'nt know who would fill the vacuum left after we deposed Saddam Hussein, who was far worse than Khaddafi. It was mistake to go into Iraq and it will be a huge mistake to go any further into the Libyan Civil war. Does anybody really think that there will be a benevolent leader or leaders that really care about the people of Libya that will take over when and if Khadaffi goes, or will it be a fundamenalst government that only cares about the power that it aquires? Or does it become a lawless nation that is ruled by armed gangs and thugs?
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

@Nigel: We cannot be Nostradamus, is that a reason to do nothing?

Maybe you haven't heard but last Wednesday the "contact group" on Libya, which includes Western powers, their Middle Eastern allies and international organisations, met rebel leaders in Doha, Qatar.

It agreed to continue to provide the rebels with "material support", and to consider channelling funds to them.

More recent info:

Libya: Nato foreign ministers hold talks in Berlin
Foreign ministers from Nato countries are meeting in Berlin, amid differences among members over the air campaign to protect civilians in Libya. ...[etc.]

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Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Nigel Tufnel said:
If Khadaffi British rule is overthrown, will Libya the 13 Colonies be a better place? The whole premise of the airstrikes was to try and help the civillians who were being slaughtered taxes were to pay for the army we had to station there after the French & Indian War. It was not to be a supplemental air force for the rebels an army of repression. We don't know who the rebels are. Just like Bush and Company the Rump Parliament didn't know who would fill the vacuum left after we Cromwell deposed Saddam Hussein Charles I, who was far worse than Khaddafi George III. Does anybody really think that there will be a benevolent leader or leaders that really care about the people of Libya the 13 Colonies that will take over when and if Khadaffi British rule goes, or will it be a fundamentalist government that only cares about the power that it aquires? Or does it become a lawless nation that is ruled by armed gangs and thugs?
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Don't the people of Libya deserve the same chance to choose their own destiny that American revolutionaries in 1775 did?
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Yes they do have the fundamental human right to choose their destiny. I am not saying do nothing. I am saying be careful. I think the USA should take a look at it's track record when it comes to nation building in the Muslim World.

Afghanastan pt 1: Failure. We had a limited objective of aiding the Mujahedin  with training, intelligence and weapons to help defeat the Soviet Union. But we left it at that and the country became a nation of warring factions.

Afghanastan pt2: Limited success. We helped the Northern Alliance defeat the Taliban, but failed to capture Osama Bin Laden or Ayman Al-Zwahari. The Afghans held elections and have a legitimate government. The country probably will destabilize once our troops are gone.

Iraq: We made it alot worse since we invaded. Countless civillian deaths. Don't even want to think about what is going to happen once the troops are gone. Saddam Hussein was a crazy dictator, but he was contained. He was not a threat to anyone outside his own boarders

@Foro: No we can not be Nostradamus. It would be nice though.

I just think that the NATO alliance needs to have a clear cut strategic objective.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

There's no boots on the ground in Libya. This isn't nation building; it's letting a group of people try to determine their own destiny. If Qadaffi had agreed to actual, fair elections that his people demanded, he might even have won. If he had left, no biggie. This is a populous movement that was attacked.

Nobody is asking NATO and ESPECIALLY not the US to try to nation-build in Libya. They are asking for help to try to determine their own destiny by neutralizing the equalizing power of the Libyan air force and heavy weapons, much as the French neutralized the major advantage the British had with the Royal Navy during the American Revolution. NATO has agreed to neutralize those forces; now, Libyan rebels will live and indeed die on their own merits. I want Qadaffi gone, but then, I want us gone too.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

McCain was int Benghazi yesterday to lend some support to the rebels (and to push to arm them more).  US is deploying drones over Libya.  I think we are starting to see some inertia, neither side is strong enough at this point to defat the other side.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

12 days past the 60 day deadline for President Obama to ask congressional approval for military action. No one has made a peep about it. I wonder why?
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Libya: Gaddafi investigated over use of rape as weapon

The International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor says there is evidence that Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi ordered the rape of hundreds of women as a weapon against rebel forces. Luis Moreno-Ocampo said rape was a new aspect of Colonel Gaddafi's repression. He said he was also looking at possible evidence that pro-Gaddafi security forces had been given medication such as Viagra to enhance their sex drive. There has so far been no comment on the allegations by the Libyan authorities.

I hope he fucking dies :mad:
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Night Prowler said:
Libya: Gaddafi investigated over use of rape as weapon

The International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor says there is evidence that Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi ordered the rape of hundreds of women as a weapon against rebel forces. Luis Moreno-Ocampo said rape was a new aspect of Colonel Gaddafi's repression. He said he was also looking at possible evidence that pro-Gaddafi security forces had been given medication such as Viagra to enhance their sex drive. There has so far been no comment on the allegations by the Libyan authorities.

I hope he fucking dies :mad:
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No kidding, they need to take this asshole out.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Yea really.
Nigel Tufnel said:
12 days past the 60 day deadline for President Obama to ask congressional approval for military action. No one has made a peep about it. I wonder why?
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I didn't know about it. Wouldn't be surprised if others forgot too. This whole thing has lost media interest it seems. Which is sad.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

There are reports that Obama is stepping up action in Yemen too. Nice going for a Nobel Peace Prize recipient.

John Boehner needs to put down his kleenex, put on his big boy pants, and keep the President in check. I bet Obama will have missions start in Syria soon if they already have'nt.
Mosh said:
Yea really.  I didn't know about it. Wouldn't be surprised if others forgot too. This whole thing has lost media interest it seems. Which is sad.
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They have'nt forgotten. They ignore it on purpose and I don't know why the Congress is'nt demanding  the Constitutionally bound authorization.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Nigel Tufnel said:
John Boehner needs to put down his kleenex, put on his big boy pants, and keep the President in check. I bet Obama will have missions start in Syria soon if they already have'nt.
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Funny, people said Obama was going to put boots on the ground in Libya too, but he didn't. In fact, he's done exactly what he said he'd do.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Does'nt matter if the President decides to put boots on the ground or not. He is constitutionally bound to get congressional approval on any military action, which he has'nt. President Obama is either lazy or arrogant, and I don't think you get to be President by being lazy. I don't care what his politics are, he needs to abide by the law of the land.
 
Re: Allied Forces at War with Libyan Regime

Were you saying the same about President Bush?

Look, I agree with you. I think that what Obama's doing is the right thing to do, but he should be obeying the law on the matter, as well. If the law says he needs Congressional authorization, then he does, period.

But Presidents breaking the law is not a new thing.
 
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