Let's try and get 1,000,000 replies to this post

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Also, Hemingway and hip hop... oh my.

I think the analogy made sense. @The Flash doesn't like minimalist literature in general, but appreciates Hemingway and states that this means Hemingway has achieved something really good. In the same way, he doesn't like hip hop in general - so if a hip hop artist makes something he likes, it's has to be really good as well.

 

[Perun]

Yeeeah, but Hemingway and hip hop?

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Yeeeah, but Hemingway and hip hop?

Yes, I do agree it hurts to read them together.

 

[The Flash]

You'll need to explain what you mean by "philosophy" here.

Basically the "reason" behind those works. Minimalist wants to to say a lot with little usage, realist wants to tell the truth as it is, expressionist wants to tell the truth by using his personal train of thought. So nothing out of the ordinary.

Hiphop was the first example to spring to my mind, sorry about that.

 

[Saapanael]

Simpsons referred to Judas Priest as death metal...

I hate when people refer to metal genres falsely. The Simpsons is such a huge cartoon, Judas Priest is such an important Heavy Metal band, and they still manage to get it wrong.

Anyway, my hands suffered extreme cold today. My hands are very sensitive to cold temperatures so keeping them out in the Winter is bad. The whole day pretty much sucked but hey, home at last.

 

[Perun]

Basically the "reason" behind those works. Minimalist wants to to say a lot with little usage, realist wants to tell the truth as it is, expressionist wants to tell the truth by using his personal train of thought. So nothing out of the ordinary.

Well, don't you see a qualitative difference in your descriptions of minimalism on the one hand, and realism and expressionism on the other?

Hiphop was the first example to spring to my mind, sorry about that.

I forgive you this time.

 

[The Flash]

I do but I was talking about reflecting the truth in the first place. Isn't that what Hemingway did with For Whom the Bell Tolls?

A minimalist doesn't have to reflect the truth of course, but I don't care for unrealistic art in general (of course with a few exceptions) anyway so I didn't take that into consideration.

 

[bearfan]

On a plane going to DisneyLand. I was supposed to go on a trip to San Francisco this weekend (for work), that fell through, they said I could keep the plane ticket if I want. I bought another ticket from San Fran to LA and am meeting some people in Anaheim for the weekend.

Disneyland of course being the opposite of minimalism and realism

 

[Perun]

I do but I was talking about reflecting the truth in the first place. Isn't that what Hemingway did with For Whom the Bell Tolls?

A minimalist doesn't have reflect the truth of course, but I don't care for unrealistic art in general (of course with a few exceptions) anyway so I didn't take that into consideration.

Minimalism does not have anything to do with reflecting the truth or not. It is a style of writing. It is about choosing a minimum of words and expressions to gain a maximum effect. When @Brigantium described Bruce's vocals as 'gravelly' the other day, she was using a single word to give an impression of something that exists in reality but must somehow be put in words. She could also have said something like, 'deeper than we are used to, aged, but not in an old geezer kind of way, hoarser than when he was young, but not exactly hoarse or raspy." That would have been descriptive of the same thing, but using many more words to an, in my opinion, diminishing effect. When she said 'gravelly', it was a single, striking word that sums it up and gives you a perfect impression of what she was trying to say. Is it any more or less realistic than a more verbose description?

 

[The Flash]

Did you actually read my post, Perun? I don't care for a minimalistic approach when the writer is trying to reflect the truth because most of the time it's lazy or pretentious. Most of the time truth can't be described by a minimal amount of words and many minimalist writers try to do that and fail. There are places for it. I like giving words more value and avoiding using too much words. But if you try to make it a "rule" in your writing, it doesn't work. It becomes pretentious. If you're going to call an artist "minimalist", if it's used to seperate artists from one another, then he has to do it often, doesn't he?

Brigantium used a very well put word and that's it. She is not a minimalist just because of that. Any writer probably uses a very well put word here and now again. Doesn't make them "minimalists".

Minimalism is a movement, not just a style of writing.

 

[Perun]

Now we're starting to run in circles. Yes, most minimalist writers and artists fail, but most writers and artists in general fail. Successful minimalism is not lazy, it is the exact opposite, as I stated in the beginning. Personal taste does not diminish the objective quality of the art. How does making it a rule in your writing become pretentious? How is it more pretentious than showing off one's vocabulary by using infinite strings of adjectives?

 

[The Flash]

I don't like "showing off one's vocabulary by using infinite strings of adjectives" either. It's also pretentious. I think you're missing the fact that minimalism is also a movement that was developed starting from the 30s. It's not just using very well thought of words that say a lot, it's not just using more valuable words. If that was the case, MrKnickerbocker wouldn't say something like "I can't stomach Hemingway's minimalist style." Everyone prefers a word that is valuable to a lot of words that doesn't say as much. But everyone may not prefer a purely minimalistic approach. I don't prefer it because I feel like it doesn't give the reader any room to breathe, any room to comprehend the piece of writing as a whole because it gives too much value to words too often.

 

[Perun]

I'm not sure if you can speak for everyone, or even @MrKnickerbocker here. After all, Knick didn't say he can't stomach minimalism, he precisely said Hemingway's minimalist style.

 

[The Flash]

That was just an example Perun. What about the other points I've tried to make? Are you just going to disregard them? Minimalism does not equal simplicity with substance. It's a style that uses simplicity with substance as the main weapon. And I don't like it when a writer tries to do it all the time. A good writer will use simplicity with substance here and now again. Dostoyevski, for example, is a realist, who uses simplicity with substance from time to time but he also uses very long expressions. He combines them, he's not a minimalist.

It is a style of writing. It is about choosing a minimum of words and expressions to gain a maximum effect.

This is essentially where I have a problem with your arguments. This is called "özlülük" in Turkish, meaning it carries a lot of value without much word usage. I'm trying to find an English replacement for it but simplicity with substance is all I can work with. This is not minimalism that you're talking about.

 

[Perun]

Okay, so what is wrong with using simplicity with substance as the main weapon?

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

WOLF!!!!

 

[The Flash]

Okay, so what is wrong with using simplicity with substance as the main weapon?

Nothing. Unless you overkill. And minimalists do overkill because they feel like they have to write everything in that sense. That's the name of their game, not using that much words. And there are times that this attitude just doesn't work, where you actually have to use more words to describe the thing without taking away from its value.

 

[Perun]

I disagree with you there. Just because it is the name of their game does not mean it is overkill. Perhaps there are times that this attitude does not work, but then those are things that minimalists should not write about. That is another sign of a good author: knowing what and what not to write about. Again, just because there are poor artists does not mean that the art is poor.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

 

[The Flash]

but then those are things that minimalists should not write about.

Maybe. But shouldn't an artist be more free than that? I mean, why not just use some more words for the part and carry on instead of trying to find something that fits to minimalistic approach? That's what Dostoyevski and many of the writers I admire did.