Judas Priest Discography Discussion (part 2 starting page 20)

98 Live Meltdown is a good recording. It’s my go to for any Ripper era material. The Jugulator songs are greatly improved there and most of the best ones are performed.

As I slowly catch up in this thread, I’ve found that the period from 1986 to about 1992ish was a bit of a Renaissance for Halford, similar to the late 90s to early 00s for Bruce. Painkiller is the go to example, but his vocals are really fantastic on Turbo and Ram It Down as well. The live album is also great and showcases a level of energy and intensity from Rob that hasn’t been seen before or since. He even dances! Knowing what he was going through not long before makes it all the more inspirational. The Priest Live video is without a doubt my favorite live footage from the band. It’s not even a contest. The Turbo songs sound great. Out in the Cold is such a good opener and has more energy than on record. The highlight has to be The Sentinel though. Again, Halford is stunning on it.

Ram It Down is Priest’s b-sides albums. Filled with leftovers and a clearly unfinished production. It doesn’t surprise me that there was little to no promotion and the band has essentially ignored it since. It’s almost like they were filling some contractual obligation. I know a lot of the material was supposed to make up a second disc of Turbo, but that doesn’t explain why Ram It Down was such a rushed job.

It’s an odd album because you can hear Priest getting their edge back but it’s still very much drenched in 80s hairspray. Rob sounds incredible, the best he’s sounded since the 70s. His shrieks are powerful and he delivers even the cheesiest lyrics with so much conviction. His tone is also fuller and there’s more support in his voice. The guitar playing took a huge step up during this time. They’re incorporating new techniques like sweep picking to keep up with the younger metal gunslingers. I think Glenn and KK frequently overstretched themselves as players, but it’s at least commendable that they regularly tried to innovate and grow as musicians. That sort of thing is very rare in the rock world. There’s a lot of great playing on this album that proves it was a necessary stepping stone to get to Painkiller.

I don’t dislike many of the songs here. I actually think most of the first six songs are pretty decent to great. Come And Get It is the weak link. Ram It Down, Hard As Iron, and Blood Red Skies are among the heaviest and greatest songs the band ever recorded, period. Imagine those with Painkiller’s production. :notworthy: Heavy Metal and Love Zone are enjoyable enough, but probably wouldn’t stand out much on a better album. Everything after Blood Red Skies is pretty disposable to me. It’s all stuff that should’ve been b-sides, not album tracks. I’m surprised at the love for Monster of Rock, not a huge fan. I can appreciate the doominess though.

Overall, the album suffers from lack of real drums, poor production, and half of the material had no business being on a main album. I’m not sure which I prefer between this and Turbo. They’re both in this weird space where I don’t dislike them but they were also creatives missteps and not really what I want from Priest. I would probably take Turbo just because it is a much more fully realized and sonically interesting project. That being said, this would be a top 5 Priest album:

Ram It Down
Turbo Lover
Locked In
Reckless
Out in the Cold
Heavy Metal
Blood Red Skies
Hard As Iron

Forgive me Cried, for I have list.
Night Prowler said:
This is the best performance of Blood Red Skies IMO @MrKnickerbocker


Better than the studio version.
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Bias! The best version was played in Las Vegas but I can’t find a recording. :(
 
Mosh said:
Bias! The best version was played in Las Vegas but I can’t find a recording. :(
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Video or it didn't happen!

OK, I'm biased but later on the tour he didn't do the high pitched stuff at the beginning at all. Not even on the Epitaph DVD.
 
Clothes don't really say much about your sexuality, do they? Or at least, they say something to other people, which may or may not be accurate.

But lyrically, to those actually listening, was that not exactly what he was doing: saying it. I hasten to add I'm talking about lyrics not just song titles. I'm not familiar with Priest lyrics, I'm just asking.
 
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Well Rob did get most of his stage outfits in the early days from S&M stores, though he admits people weren't getting it.

I knew Rob was gay before I seriously got into Priest, so I never thought about the lyrics. Most of them aren't gender specific anyway, it's always "you" rather than "he" or "she" - excluding Victim of Changes and some other early songs - so it's really open to listener interpretation. The only one I can think of that makes fairly explicit gay references is "Raw Deal".
 
A lot of it is double entendre. Songs like Hard As Iron, Jawbreaker, and Ram It Down (titles and lyrics) all allude to homosexual acts but can easily be missed without context or if someone isn’t paying much attention. I wasn’t there in the 80s but it seems like it went above a lot of peoples heads. Same with the leather thing. Maybe it’s more obvious now because everyone knows Rob is gay, idk.

It’s funny that this gets brought up now cause I was thinking about it while listening to the last few albums and reading a lot of Knick’s criticisms. I can appreciate that Rob was using his music as an outlet for discussing topics that were extremely taboo in the 80s. I’m sure Rob had many private laughs over the fact that a band whose image and lyrical content was heavily built on gayness had a massive following and influenced countless bands in a time when being gay was really not cool.
 
A friend pointed me toward Priest in '81. I said I thought they were gay and he assured me they weren't, so I got 'Unleashed' and was very happy.
It's not that the homosexuality was strongly offputting as during the '70's there was plenty of gender bending going around which was considered hip and trendy at the time. It's just when you're 17 and desperate for female attention you don't want certain associations to spoil your chances. Stupid I know.
 
It is remarkable when a band manages to enter their third decade with a consistent level of activity and most of the key members intact. For a band to enter their third decade with one of the greatest albums of their career is almost unheard of. Painkiller is, to me, not just Priest's best album but also in my top 3 greatest Metal albums of all time. Just like Screaming For Vengeance 8 years earlier, this album once again proves that the band can still keep up with the new crop of Metal. Priest continue to evolve with the times, but now the sound is more authentic and raw. The guitars are back at the forefront and, perhaps most importantly, so are the drums. Scott Travis is a perfect addition. His drumming is aggressive, technically intricate, and musical. Dave Holland served an important role in the more commercial and straightforward Priest. He held a tight beat and never got in the way of the hooks. It’s a restrained approach that isn’t going to earn much accolades in a genre that emphasizes flashy drumming, but it worked. With Scott Travis, the signal is clear. The new Priest is in-your-face, aggressive, and relentless. The new drumming also brings fresh energy.

This album is one heavy hitter after the next with very little breathing room. The bar is immediately set sky high with the title track. Travis’ introduction to the band is perfect, rivaled by very few (Nicko in Maiden and Grohl in Nirvana are the only other drummer entrances I can think of atm). Such a powerful intro. Halford comes in with so much conviction. It’s funny reading Knick’s comment about the shrieking. I remember as a kid I loved the Halford shrieks to the point where that’s all I wanted to hear. I was usually disappointed when only one or two songs on an album featured this vocal style. Of course, now I’ve come to appreciate Halfords range as a vocalist. I do like when he sings the chorus in a lower register before the climactic “Pain! Pain! killer! Killer!” bit at the end. Awesome stuff. Of course, the song features one of Tipton’s best solos. Besides the flurry of sweep picked notes, this solo has a great structure and melody. It’s like a song in itself. KK’s solo is good too. Every single member is firing on all cylinders with this track.

How do you follow up such a monster opening track? Hell Patrol perfectly carries the momentum while also being enough of a contrast to keep things interesting. It has more of a steady mid-tempo, more swing, and a more melodic vocal approach. However, the energy and power of the title track continue. Love everything about this song. I feel in some ways it gets overshadowed by the opener (much of this album does really) and I'd love to hear them bring this back live. Halford's delivery of the final prechorus is one of my favorite moments of his. Gives me chills every time. Awesome.

The next three songs are all on a similar plane for me. Just awesome in your face Metal. Great playing, great singing, awesome drums. Some fantastic choruses, especially on Leather Rebel. I like how Metal Meltdown and All Guns Blazing sort of mirror each other, with the former being a showcase for the guitar and the latter being a vocal showcase. Both also have awesome halftime breakdowns. On other Priest albums, these might be simpler songs. But on Painkiller, there are many intricacies and really high-level guitar work. The closest they ever came to this level of musicianship was on Defenders of the Faith, but they take it to a new level here.

The second side of the album keeps up the pace but with a bit more variety and breathing room. It's like side 1 was Priest proving that they could keep up with the new Metal bands and stay fresh, while side 2 is time for them to get creative and show that they still innovate. Night Crawler is like a horror movie wrapped up in a Metal song with its eerie intro and middle section. There's a lot of heaviness of course, but the intensity is more in the dynamics this time around. It's a nice way to change things up after 5 relentlessly aggressive songs. It probably has my favorite vocal line on the album. The verse, pre chorus, and chorus are just masterfully written. Great melodies, great delivery, and it all flows seamlessly. The "as night is calling" bit is amazing. Such a perfect song. It was also a highlight live in 2012.

Between the Hammer & The Anvil is the most "classic" sounding Priest tune here. Wouldn't be totally out of place on Defenders or Screaming For Vengeance. Has more of a straightforward beat and a groovier riff. It's like a combination of 80s Priest catchiness and modern Priest aggression. It's a great marriage that results in another stand out track.

Touch of Evil is really the only moment on the album where the energy level comes down a bit. This is replaced instead with gripping atmosphere and a great steady groove. This is one of the most natural Priest ballads since the 70s. It really has that Beyond the Realms of Death/Dreamer Deceiver vibe. Airy, atmospheric, chilling. It's the most commercial song on the album, but unlike the obviously commercial songs they made over the last decade or so, this one feels really natural and not contrived at all. Great song. Another Halford highlight is the "you're possessing me!" bit before the final chorus. I'd give Halford the MVP for this album if there wasn't so much fierce competition. Everyone really brings it here.

One Shot at Glory is really the only logical way to close this album. An epic chorus and an air of triumph that suggests that even they knew at the time they had something special. It's at this point in the album where I'm just in awe that an album could have so much energy and momentum. And after all that, they manage to bring the level up yet another notch before the end. I've heard of a band becoming reinvigorated later in their career, but Painkiller is something else. It's like a rebirth. They really did outdo all the thrash Metal bands from the same time. I'd take this album easily over Rust In Peace, Ride the Lightning, or any other landmark thrash album. It's not that those are bad albums, but Painkiller is, to me, the pinnacle of Metal up to that point. This album removes all doubt of Priest's credentials as Metal Gods.
 
Given the forum’s love of Painkiller, I finally listened to the album through all the way and I’m definitely impressed. Everyone’s given 110% and the sound is excellent. That said, lyrically I’m just not impressed. The only songs I would consider perfect are the title track and “Touch of Evil”, with the others all being fairly great but not quite outstanding. Still, good album.
 
1.) Yep, Spires are undoubtedly the best thing on Jugulator. Though the beginning of the chorus reminds me of 'Tullica's One too much :D

2.) I'm surprised some are surprised by the double entendres and the like. I mean - JAWBREAKER.

"And all the pressure that's been building up
For all the years it bore the load"

Yeah, it's a coming-out blowjob. Point of Entry, the whole of Grinder, even Hell Bent for Leather. It's hilarious, really.

3.) Painkiller is a great album, though I'm personally not that crazy about Meltdown and Anvil. Both are solid, but much less melodic (or more melodically rudimentary) than the rest of the album, so they can't help but feel a bit fillerish. Despite Scott, despite the title track, I'd still probably go with Defenders. They should have played One Shot at Glory live, though.

4.) by the way, does Diamonds and Rust sound like a disco track to anyone else? The studio version, mostly.
 
I'd say Between the Hammer and the Anvil is very melodic. The riffs themselves are very melodic, K.K. plays one of his most melodic solos ever.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
Painkiller is a great album, though I'm personally not that crazy about Meltdown and Anvil.
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Meltdown I'm not so keen on, but Hammer + Anvil is brilliant, a great response to all that subliminal message stuff they were going through at the time.
 
Backtracking a little. Just read another KK interview, this time he was discussing his favourite Priest album and he chose British Steel. It got me thinking how I really don't rate it very highly compared to everyone else. "Metal Gods" is one of my favourite Priest tracks and "Breaking the Law" is an obvious classic, but everything else ranges from good to borderline filler.

It's odd to me that British Steel seems to be regarded as the "definitive" Priest album. Really, the commercial sound of British Steel is quite abnormal. I find the majority of their albums, particularly the early albums and albums like Defenders of the Faith and Painkiller, are quite far from commercial.
 
Jugulator is an interesting one. I experienced Ripper era Priest shortly after hearing the Blaze era Maiden albums. I figured that since the Blaze albums were not only decent, but sort of hidden gems in the Maiden catalog, the Priest albums would be the same way. I suspect many Priest fans had similar thoughts, since X Factor predated Jugulator by a couple years. Maybe they liked Blaze era Maiden and went into Jugulator optimistic. Or they didn't like Blaze and figured they wouldn't like Ripper. I could see people disliking X Factor and liking Jugulator or vice versa though. Jugulator is a departure but still plays it pretty safe. Ripper was also a safe pick for a vocalist. X Factor and Blaze are anything but safe. Anyway my point of entry to Ripper era Priest was actually '98 Meltdown, which is a great CD IMO. The songs are tuned down which gives it a chunkier sound that actually isn't too bad. I'm generally not a fan of tuning down but it works here, especially since they were going for a heavier sound at the time. Getting a guy from a Priest tribute band really paid off cause he sounds great on these songs. He sounded better with Priest than Iced Earth at least. It's a solid setlist and the new songs fit in really well. This album completely sold me on this incarnation of the band.

Which brings me to Jugulator. I went into this album with a lot of optimism since I liked the Jugulator songs on the live album. I remember listening to it once or twice and being pretty underwhelmed. As Knick noted, the guitar tone is bad. It gives the album a Ram It Down-like demo quality. Everything sounds thin without energy. It's a stark contrast to the way the songs sound live. Ripper's vocal performance is also not quite as good.

The album really starts off on the wrong foot. I actually really like the intro with the industrial sounds but it morphs into a mess of a song. It's interesting technically, with all the odd time signatures and changing sections, but it feels really uncohesive. There's no real form to the song or anything that is holding it all together. Normally a song like this would be boosted by a recurring theme or a story or some sort of dynamic progression, but this song lacks any of that. The lyrics make no sense. At least the other Priest "er" songs attempt at creating a character or some sort of scene. Jugulator is more like a brutal word salad starring a faceless character. Just compare this:
Faster than a bullet
Terrifying scream
Enraged and full of anger
He is half man and half machine
Rides the metal monster
Breathing smoke and fire
Closing in with vengeance soaring high
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to
Jugulator he is near
Attracted by the stench of fear
Part demonic part machine
Hungry and it's time to feed

Iron claws and fangs of steel
Dripping from his tasty meal
Now it's time to jugulate
Feel your skull disintegrate
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Very similar passages but Painkiller is just way more detailed and vivid. That particular line in Jugulator is also the only description of the character or its motivation, where Painkiller starts off with its respective line and develops over the course of the song. It's obvious they were trying to recapture Painkiller, in the lyrics and music. It just falls flat in a lot of ways though. There are redeemable moments and some cool riffs, but it's a bad way to start the album.

The title track is pretty emblematic of the rest of the album in terms of quality. Great moments here and there but overall it feels like the band is lost again. As usual, they are trying to keep up with the current trends in Metal, but much like Turbo and Ram It Down, they are emulating a style that just wasn't very interesting and really hasn't aged well. I think Blood Stained, Burn In Hell, and Cathedral Spires all hold up reasonably well. Death Row is kinda goofy but has a decent chorus. Could do with just about everything else. I agree with most of the other criticisms that have been noted here, so I won't beat that horse any further. The sad part is there was a lot of potential for this incarnation of the band.

Also how did they mess up the album artwork?? Mark Wilkinson's painting is awesome, why did they have to do a low res zoom-in of rather than just use the whole piece?
 
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