Judas Priest Discography Discussion (part 2 starting page 20)

So a much better album if you would not mind sound effects and arpeggio's. Were those beginnings really so important?

I agree with the lack of melodies. And I am annoyed by several tuff guy vocal utterings.

You have a lot of valid criticism. But these ratings are so condemningly low.

Abductors has a nice faster mid section. There is a good groove in the verses and Ripper sounds well on it.

@MrKnickerbocker I hope you will do the live album despite your disappointment about this studio record.

Ripper's is doing well on most material (esp. British Steel !) and the new songs sound good too although the guitars are a little soft in the mix. Worth checking out.
 
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I quite liked Ripper Priest. Melody can get so dull that a dollop of noise can't sort.
Sometimes the songs are too long in this era. They should've gone for short, sharp shock.
Jug's okay. I don't get the love for Spires, the Ride The Lightning riff rip puts me off. Title track is great fun. Abductors, Bullet Train and Dead Meat are entertaining enough.
It'll never be top but never the worst(Firepower just bores the crap out of me).
 
One positive: this is the most prominent bass guitar I’ve heard on a Priest record. Ian Hill is slapping, popping, and pulling some cool fills out of the gutter music

What version are you listening to?! I can barely hear the bass on any version I've listened to. All sounds like mush.

Glenn Tipton is an absolutely atrocious lyricist. Ripper should have stepped up to the plate.

I think it was the "tuff guy" attitude he was going for, past lyrics by him have been much better.
 
The songs (with lyrics) that are Tipton only:

Ripper
Epitaph
White Heat, Red Hot
Heroes End
Hell Bent for Leather
Killing Machine
Running Wild
 
Rob has said many of his lyrics have a double meaning that sometimes only the gay community understands - for example:

" 'Jawbreaker' is about cocksucking. Let me think what some of the words are... Things like 'waiting to recoil', and - oh god, let me think... Anyway, it was all to do with a dick. An erect dick. It was just so blatantly obvious to me, or for another gay man. What's a 'jawbreaker'? It's a big dick. For a straight man, it's, 'Oh, man, are you gonna smash me in the face and break my jaw?'."
- Rob Halford

Taken from this very hard-to-read website: http://www.thexquorum.com/mad/DEFENDERSOFTHEFAITH.html#2. Jawbreaker

If it's just the term "Jawbreaker", then I get it. But the actual lyrics... I'm not so sure.
 
So a much better album if you would not mind sound effects and arpeggio's. Were those beginnings really so important?

I agree with the lack of melodies. And I am annoyed by several tuff guy vocal utterings.

You have a lot of valid criticism. But these ratings are so condemningly low.

Abductors has a nice faster mid section. There is a good groove in the verses and Ripper sounds well on it.

@MrKnickerbocker I hope you will do the live album despite your disappointment about this studio record.

Ripper's is doing well on most material (esp. British Steel !) and the new songs sound good too although the guitars are a little soft in the mix. Worth checking out.

It would have been better without the intros because each song would be shorter. For the most part, those intros add nothing to the songs other than padding.

The lack of melodies goes farther than just the vocals: the guitars have no melody, anywhere. If you told me there was only one guitarist on this album, I'd believe you. The riffs are generic, unmemorable, and uninteresting. The solos are virtually unrecognizable as Glenn and KK. The personality that makes up Judas Priest (both as a band and as individuals) is non-existent on this album.

I'm currently listening to the live album and yep - Ripper sounds incredible on the old material. He's throwing in highs all over the place that fit and sound incredibly cool. Honestly, this is the most "actual" depth I've ever heard in his voice. Based on the consistency here I can only assume that Priest continued their trend of re-recording the vocals in a studio, but they sound great. Guitars could definitely be turned up a notch or three.

What version are you listening to?! I can barely hear the bass on any version I've listened to. All sounds like mush.

I think it was the "tuff guy" attitude he was going for, past lyrics by him have been much better.

I'm listening to mp3s of the original mixes at 320kbps. I had to listen on studio headphones before I could actually hear those bass parts, though. The tuff guy lyrics are not only lame, they're poorly written.

The songs (with lyrics) that are Tipton only:
Ripper
Epitaph
White Heat, Red Hot
Heroes End
Hell Bent for Leather
Killing Machine
Running Wild

I had no idea! I simply assumed that Rob always wrote the lyrics. None of those songs have brilliant lyrics, but they are all a million times better than anything on Jugulator.

I'm sure I read that the lyrics to "Jawbreaker" were mostly by Glenn as well.
Rob has said many of his lyrics have a double meaning that sometimes only the gay community understands - for example:

" 'Jawbreaker' is about cocksucking. Let me think what some of the words are... Things like 'waiting to recoil', and - oh god, let me think... Anyway, it was all to do with a dick. An erect dick. It was just so blatantly obvious to me, or for another gay man. What's a 'jawbreaker'? It's a big dick. For a straight man, it's, 'Oh, man, are you gonna smash me in the face and break my jaw?'."
- Rob Halford

Taken from this very hard-to-read website: http://www.thexquorum.com/mad/DEFENDERSOFTHEFAITH.html#2. Jawbreaker

If it's just the term "Jawbreaker", then I get it. But the actual lyrics... I'm not so sure.

Goddamnit, Rob. I'll never hear this song the same way again.
 
I had no idea! I simply assumed that Rob always wrote the lyrics. None of those songs have brilliant lyrics, but they are all a million times better than anything on Jugulator.

Glenn was very prolific on the 70s albums, then they just started crediting everything to Downing/Halford/Tipton. KK said that from that point Rob wrote all the lyrics and he and Glenn wrote the music together, though given KK's lack of input in the 70s, I often wonder how much he really contributed. On the Demolition album Glenn wrote most of the songs by himself - KK is only credited on 5 of the 13 songs.
 
Jugulator lacks any sort of rhythmic swing and is completely bereft of melody; it’s like getting randomly beaten over the head with a rolled up newspaper for an hour.

Just listened to it for the fourth or fifth time ever. Only song I recognized was Cathedral Spires, which only seems like a good song in context.

Utterly unmemorable, and as Knick aptly states, it doesn’t sound like Priest.
 
The change was less radical then. Still I think that people who do appreciate heavier (than "regular" heavy metal) music probably can like Jugulator more than people who are not into such music.
 
I agr
I sincerely hope that things can only go up from here...

Jugulator (1997)

Judas_Priest-Jugulator.jpg


Jugulator – The intro begins incredibly dark and metallic, almost industrial. We get some deep sighs and minor-key arpeggios and…this is a very different Judas Priest. It sounds more like a Sabbath track off Dehumanizer. Rob Halford is replaced with Ripper Owens and the band has to prove that the new guy is up to the task, so naturally the first time we ever hear Ripper he’s doing a lame spoken word intro that sounds like Dave Mustaine. Great decision, gents. Double bass ushers in the scream that should’ve opened the album. The music on this track is pummeling, but it sounds more like Anthrax than Priest. There’s grunting and Ripper is singing mostly in a lame Hetfield/Anselmo impression with some occasional falsetto wails (that do sound amazing) and more Mustaine inflections. Some of the riffing is intense, but completely indistinct. It sounds cool but there’s nothing catchy about it. The lead guitar tones are atrocious (literally the worst they’ve ever had), the lyrics are godawful, and there’s not a single melody to be found. What is this song even talking about? I commend them for adding an “-or” song to the discography instead of another “-er” song, but it’s actual nonsense. “Predit hater?” Seriously, go home boys. 2/10

Blood Stained – Track two opens exactly the same as track one, with dark arpeggios and sound effects. The riff kicks in and sounds like it should be the opening track to a Sevendust album. Blood Stained has a better vocal arrangement and the chug riffing is definitely catchier than track one, but Ripper is only utilized to grunt and yell during the chorus instead of singing like the lead singer of Judas Fucking Priest. The bridge melody sounds lifted from an Alice in Chains records. I get that they are trying to go darker and satisfy the sound of the times, but this music just isn’t good. If you told me that this was a completely different band from Painkiller, I’d believe you. It sounds nothing like Glenn and KK. Blood Stained is better than the title track, but still not good at all by Priest’s standards. 4/10

Dead Meat – This one kicks off thrashier than the previous two and sounds for one second like a Priest riff, but then we’re “treated” to atonal harmonics and more TUFF RIPPER vocals. I don’t understand why they hired a guy famous for singing like Halford and then have him sing completely unlike Halford. His delivery of “surrender” during the chorus here is so cringe-inducing (like Blaze in Lightning Strikes Twice). There’s just no melody in this song. The solos again sound like Kerry King playing through a cheese grater inside of a potato. Halford’s absence is sorely felt. So far, every song on this album is too long by at least 1.5 minutes. Ripper gets in a few good wails, but this song still sucks. 2/10

Death Row – More lame sound effects and terrible voice acting worse than Megadeth’s “Captive Honour” and more dark arpeggios. I don’t know why 90’s metal was so obsessed with voice acting, but it’s one of my least favorite aspects of the genre. The riffs here are similarly rhythm-based and unmelodic (and even sound more Pantera-ish than before). Ripper is unidentifiable in tone as he mostly yells and says “lee-ver” as though he isn’t an American. The chorus isn’t terrible for any other band, but it’s incredibly lame for Priest. More voice acting, more poor guitar leads (now with wah!), and the song just keeps limping along. On the plus side: I hear some cool slap bass and Scott Travis really kills the double bass. The song ends with (surprise, surprise) more sound effects and arpeggios. 3/10

Decapitate – We’re verging on nü metal territory with this atonal intro and things just get worse with the unmelodic verses (“Your head – you will lose it!”). The lyrics and vocals seem like an afterthought to music that was already an afterthought. Ripper’s got at least 5 vocal layers going at once to make him sound like he has depth. Somewhere beneath the disgusting guitar tone there’s actually some cool playing, too bad it sounds like ass. More voice acting with bad jokes? Fuck it, I’m out. This song is offensively stupid and lazy. 1/10

Burn in Hell – Evil arpeggio? Check. Sound FX? Check. Distorted bass groove: oh, that’s actually kind of cool. Am I crazy or does this sound a little like Enter Sandman? The first verse and chorus contain the most personality and real performance I’ve heard from Ripper yet. I don’t love it, but he’s really digging into the material. “Scream in the niiiiiiiiiight!” The chorus is actually catchy, though still not up to regular Priest standards. By the time the Lars-ish drum intros end and the band kicks in, this is a pretty cool tune. Even the lead guitar tones are decent! Ripper fucking shreds this song, he sounds legitimately scary and his highs are quite impressive. The Metallica vibes are overwhelming, but this is easily the most solid song yet. The outro riff is seriously cool and so far the only successful attempt at the “dark, evil” tone they’ve been searching for on this album. Burn in Hell is one of only two songs worth listening to from this release. 7/10

Brain Dead – Cheese graters return, sound effects never cease, single-note riffs start the proceedings…before a decidedly heavier, groove metal riff kicks in. Lyrically this song is a reinterpretation of Metallica’s “One” and it’s nowhere near as good. The idea of the life support beeping along to the tempo is cool, but becomes annoying very quickly. TUFF GUY RIPPER returns for the chorus and his best range is never utilized. I think good notes are being played during the solos, but it sounds like a Nine Inch Nails outtake farting into a microphone. Dave Mustaine returns in the bridge. Another forgettable, annoyingly bad song. 2/10

Abductors – Who produced this trash? At what point does the producer step in and say: “Every fucking song opens with the same thing, gentlemen, maybe let’s edit that out?” Ripper finally uses his best (shriek) range throughout half this song, but the material is not good. It’s more industrial metal, paint-by-numbers songwriting with terrible lyrics. “They mentally rape you!” Ronnie Fucking Dio, guys, just stop it. There’s a rare moment where the band attempts an acoustically-driven, melodic moment and it still has zero fucking melody. Cheers to that bass guitar, though. The bass and drum fill after the acoustic section is super quick and cool. Thank Dio the song picks up halfway through, even if they waste it by returning to the intro. Once again, this song is far too long. Extra point goes to Ripper for shrieking a lot. Minus one point for that stupid final line. 3/10

Bullet Train – There’s some more atmosphere noises at the top of this track, but at least the riffs start rather quickly. The drums, again, are in top form. Ripper lends a really nice shriek to the intro but the song becomes a mess of FX and conflicted playing. There’s so many different riffs and backing vocals and sound effects happening that this whole thing just sounds like rotting shit. Ripper pretends to be British again by saying, “ah-gain.” We end with literal TUFF GUY “WHO-AH’s!” and I want to cut off my ears. 1/10

Cathedral Spires – Another arpeggio breaks the lack of silence and…wait a minute, this one has melody?! And there’s a second guitar with more melody? AND A THIRD GUITAR WAILING IN THE BACKGROUND? And Ripper is singing with melody?!!!!! HOLY SHIT IS THIS GOING TO SOUND LIKE AN ACTUAL JUDAS PRIEST SONG?! Yes. And no. Ripper’s got a lot of help with vocal layers during the intro, but it still sounds great. It’s moody, melancholic, and more importantly: melodic. The heavy riffs that kick in are pretty stock, but I’m still on board. The verses are oddly timed; I can’t tell what the time signature is, but I like it. The chorus has some TUFF GUY vocals, but they’re minimal. It’s very proggy. The melody kind of grabs you after 4-5 listens. There’s something truly triumphant and regal about this chorus that I haven’t heard before in Priest’s music. I guess if this is the one truly great song from this album, it might be worth it? I don’t know. Maybe not. The solo after the bridge (I think it’s KK!) is quite nice. Just when you think the song is over, we get overdub after overdub of Ripper becoming a metal gospel choir and it’s glorious. His last high is incredible. Cathedral Spires is not a perfect song, but I’m willing to bet it’s as good as Ripper Priest gets. 9/10

I don’t want to be overly negative here, but I really can’t help it. Judas Priest has always been a band that thrives on experimentation. They’ve gone from heavy blues to proto-metal to glam rock to straight up classic heavy metal to speed metal to melodic metal to radio hard rock to synth-wave pop rock and now…this. I appreciate that Judas Priest is not a band to consistently sound the same, but at the same time there are certain tenants of their music that I expect regardless of their current experiment, such as:

- catchy vocal hooks
- twin guitar riffs and harmonies
- some form of melody, either in the instrumentation or the vocals

Jugulator doesn’t just replace a vocalist, it completely abandons the Judas Priest identity that I enjoy. Even when I disliked a previous album (Point of Entry or Turbo or Ram It Down) I could still rely on a few songs with solid guitar parts, decent production, catchy vocals with good performances, or an underlying sense of melodic balance. This new era of Priest has none of those qualities and I can’t help but be incredibly disappointed.

One positive: this is the most prominent bass guitar I’ve heard on a Priest record. Ian Hill is slapping, popping, and pulling some cool fills out of the gutter music (especially in Death Row, Decapitate, and Cathedral Spires). Also, Travis remains an incredible studio drummer.

Side note: Glenn Tipton is an absolutely atrocious lyricist. Ripper should have stepped up to the plate.

Album rating – 3.6/10
I agree that almost every intro was 1. Too similar & 2. Too quiet. The title track is 1 of the few never played live. I also agree Burn In Hell is 1 of the best on the cd. I was surprised when I saw this tour, they only played 2 songs: BIH & Blood Suckers. With a new singer, usually a band will play more than half the new cd (VH on 5150 tour, Maiden on TXF tour, etc).

As far as the lyrics, I also was surprised Ripper was not given a chance. As far as the live cd 98 Meltdown, I much prefer the live versions of the new songs.
 
'98 Live Meltdown

Judas_Priest-Live_Meltdown.jpg



I wish this live recording were easier to get my hands on via streaming, because it’s really a great live album. The guitars should be a little louder, but overall it sounds raw and live and proves that Ripper was a good choice (at least for the old material). His performance on the first five tracks (and Painkiller) is fantastic. Sometimes his range shows some cracks (he’s really pushing on The Sentinel; Touch of Evil and Beyond the Realms of Death lack some of the melody they should have) but overall he does a good job here of carrying the torch. The band is solid as always. Glenn’s Realms and Painkiller solos are outstanding.

These recordings do not sway my opinions at all on the Jugulator material. They feel wrong during the set, they’re overly aggressive and Ripper sounds physically hurt having to sing them. If anything, they’re weaker because of the thinness of a live recording and the obviously tracked backing vocals. The voice acting parts on Death Row are even lamer live (I don’t understand why he didn’t just let the music carry them). The only new song that I enjoy more on this live album is probably Abductors, which benefits from a more raw approach. It’s readily apparent that despite his successful high range, Ripper does not have the same versatility as Halford. Even in songs like Metal Meltdown (“out of control”) he’s just singing the same high note in succession instead of following the melody. His voice is often unmelodic, both here and in the other bands in which I’ve heard him sing.

Random thoughts:
- It’s really cool to hear some of the Painkiller songs on a live release since they never had one with Halford. Touch of Evil works very well, as does the title track, where as Night Crawler feels lacking (needs three guitars overall for the intro riff).
- Right before Victim of Changes starts, you can clearly hear some dude yelling for Blood Red Skies.
- Diamonds and Rust is really cool, sounds a lot more like the original. Ripper sounds incredible on it. I definitely wish they kicked into the “original” cover tempo at some point, though.
- Ripper’s scream of “Judas Priest METAL!” during Green Manalishi actually made me laugh, not in a good way.
 
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