ISIS Thread

Collin said:
And where would Left-wing domestic terrorism be included in the list of threats?
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Fairly low. There hasn't been too many eco-terrorism attacks recently, not compared to right-wing terror attacks, one of which occurred this month in Las Vegas. Other left-wing style groups (communists, communal anarchists, those sorts of blokes) have absolutely no footprint in the USA, whereas right-wing terror groups like some militias abound in the USA.
 
The eco-terror attacks have been more non-violent, but there is case after case recently that have caused reasonable economic damage.

Back to Iraq, I think far too many people are letting their feelings of the war color their views here and I suspect there would be different calls if there had been no war and Sadaam died and the country started splitting apart along religious/ethnic lines like the breakup of Yugoslavia.
 
Yeah, pretty much. Except Saddam was a Sunni ruler over the Shia minority. I mean, that's why Iran and Iraq fought a decade long war, why the USA gave Iraq WMD in the first place.
 
Iraq was formed out of a part of the former Ottoman Empire following the First World War, and was effectively a British colony. Many of these colonial countries were controlled by the Europeans only indirectly, by empowering a minority group in the population that was willing to take the promise of power and became loyal to the colonial overlords. These elites remained in power after the country's independence - Saddam was the last in this line. The same happened in Rwanda with the Tutsi. In Iraq, these were the non-Shi'ite Arabs. I'm not only saying Sunnite Arabs, because all the Christian Arabs in the country were included there as well - Chaldaeans, Assyrians and others. It was only after the 2003 invasion that this elite got deposed, and now elements of these are trying to return with a vengeance. And this has the potential to get really ugly. And I haven't even talked about the Kurds yet.
 
Exactly ... there are obvious differences, but the country was formed with artificial borders connecting ethnic/religious groups and now that the elements that propped up that control are gone, chaos and long held resentment are showing themselves. Which is fairly similar to Yugoslavia where many people against troops on the ground now were calling for it then.

This was all bound to happen at some point, the 2003 war hastened it.
 
The 2003 war all but ensured it would happen. There was always the possibility that Saddam would have left a strong powerbase for his successor and staved off this happenstance for a generation. This really goes to show the failure of US post 9/11 nationbuilding. You can't just set up elections and assume everything will go A-OK. I dunno. If I were Obama, I'd be all. "fuckit, I'm out."
 
If this happened without the 2003 invasion, say he was assainated or chocked on a chicken bone, would you still say fuck it, I'm out?
 
I'm not... too sure. In the Iran-Iraq War, the Iranians hoped to find allies in the Iraqi Shi'ites, but that didn't work. I think that they consider themselves Iraqi most of all, and they'd be willing to put up with the others under fair circumstances. I think the same is true for the great majority of Sunni Arabs in the country.
 
I never said I was out. I said if I were Obama. He has a way different set of concerns than I do.
 
Perun said:
I think the same is true for the great majority of Sunni Arabs in the country.
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Generally true, but one of the reasons ISIS is advancing so rapidly is a good percentage of the army refuses to fight for al-Maliki because he's so very pro-Shi'a.
 
Obama seems to resent that things happened before he was President. Pulling out of Iraq on a deadline rather than a goal seems to have been a foolish move or at least ill informed now that we are sending back in trainers and should be at a minimum be launching air strikes.
 
I don't think anybody will disagree with me when I say that the Iraqi government is as useful as a water cooler in Greenland.
 
There is always wiggle room and keeping "trainers" in place has traditionally been a way around that ... not to mention the treaty could have been re-negotiated.

I am not saying "this is all Obama's fault" .. but the tenants of his foreign policy have been falling apart one by one and it is no wonder he is upside down in the polls in this area. From the Russian reset, the prisoner trade, Iraq falling apart, etc. This is all on his watch. He is in danger of moving into Jimmy Carter territory.

He cannot keep dragging out bin-Laden's body and calling that FP.
 
Even with trainers in Iraq, it'd still be going to shit. I dunno, none of it is Obama's fault, really. I don't know how he could have handled a lot of this stuff any better. The USA has a huge foreign policy shitpile, and I think that any other possible president would be handling it with more US bodybags.
 
The West has killed more people in Iraq since 1991 than Saddam did during his entire reign.
 
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