Iron Maiden's management: What went wrong?

[Nomadd]

I'm honestly really happy with where Maiden's at in terms of popularity. I just think it’s kinda dumb how people keep bringing up this Maiden vs Metallica thing, like “why isn’t Maiden as big?” or whatever. Who even cares? Maiden’s already huge.

But like, do people really want them to be like Metallica or KISS? I love Metallica, but their whole way of doing things just feels like too much sometimes. It kinda annoys me seeing them everywhere—on TV with hosts like Jimmy Kimmel, or releasing stuff like the Blacklist with all those covers, or dropping a music video for every song on their last album. Like the whole Black Album celebration... I don’t know, it’s just too much for me. I don’t want all that. I actually prefer less content.

That’s one of the things I like about Maiden—they don’t flood us with stuff, and to me that makes them feel more real. Like, they’re not trying to squeeze every little bit out of the Iron Maiden name. It makes me kinda proud to be a fan of a band that still feels grounded.

Like this new documentary that’s coming out—I’ll watch it for sure, but I don’t really care that much. It’s just a documentary. I’d rather they focus on making new music and touring. And I don’t care if they play arenas or stadiums. That stuff doesn’t matter to me—it’s the music and the live shows that are their real legacy.

Yeah, extra content can be fun, but I’d rather get that when they’ve retired or even after they’re gone. Give us the live albums, documentaries, books and all that in 10-15 years to keep the Maiden legacy alive. But right now, while they’re still active—especially at their age—I’d rather they just keep doing what they’re doing

And just to be clear—I don’t think Maiden’s management is doing anything wrong at all. Quite the opposite, actually. I think they’ve handled things really well over the years. They’ve kept the band feeling authentic and true to who they are, and that’s something I really respect.

The certificates are always related to the sales threshold achieved by distributing the albums by the same label representing the artist at the moment! Iron Maiden was released in the States by Capitol Records (1980 - 1990), Epic was next, then they went back to Capitol for a while, and Castle Communications, Portrait, Legacy, CBS, Sanctuary Records, UMe, BMG were next. The list is long, and the back catalogue has been re-released many times. So, the combined real sales are way bigger now than the certificates suggest. Many of them were received by the band back in the 80s. And the official data sometimes doesn't include the current status of the sales. Sometimes the artists have the certificates on their walls, but the awards aren't listed officially. In the Maiden's case, this situation was in countries as the UK, USA, Poland, France, and Brazil. But it's not just in the Maiden world, many other artists could tell so same.
But look at the VHS/DVD sales. The number of certified video albums is significant, so it shows an American audiences are hell bent on Eddie and the visual aspects of IM shows. So the Iron Maiden Discography section is reliable, and the special cases were described with special comments. And once again, they have never been about radio airwaves and catching the wave of popularity in any country in the world, including the UK, they have done everything on their own terms. Mainstream media and the establishment hate them and ignore. Iron Maiden broke their rules and showed other artists how to build a career on their own.
And here's something interesting. My friend is a statistics nerd, he's tracking the sales results in different countries, including the United States. I've attached the file with the results of his "Maiden albums investigation". And here you are, the real sales of IM albums in the US, including results from all labels that released their stuff throughout the years.

 

[wesrelaxed]

I fail to see what the problem is. They are a phenomenally successful band; they get to fill arenas and stadiums and headline festivals all over the world; they have probably the most fiercely loyal fan base in the history of music; they have the respect and admiration of almost all their peers; they can record what they want, when they want and they can tour when and where they want; they answer to no one but themselves and their fans; they've earned enough money that they never have to worry financially and they can still pop down Tescos to do their shopping in relative anonymity. And they've done all this completely on their own terms.

As far as I can tell they have hit pretty much the perfect level. What more could they want?

What real benefit would there be for them in chasing mainstream acceptance? Would they really be a better band if they had one or two super-mega-smash-hits that spent 40 years being flogged to death on the radio and those terminally boring 'Classic Rock' playlists? People on here often moan about how bored they are of Run to the Hills; imagine how we would feel about it if it was as watered-down and anaemic as Living After Midnight and as ubiquitous as Enter Sandman or Nothing Else Matters?

I'm convinced that if they properly went chasing the mainstream in the 90s then it would have killed the band stone dead there and then. Can you imagine how bad Grunge Maiden or Nu-Metal Maiden or Sensible-Grown-Up-Rock Maiden would have been? Waiting out the storm with four 'Meh' albums followed by a stonking comeback was probably the best thing they could have done at the time and is why they are where they are now.

 

[____no5]

And here's something interesting. My friend is a statistics nerd, he's tracking the sales results in different countries, including the United States. I've attached the file with the results of his "Maiden albums investigation". And here you are, the real sales of IM albums in the US, including results from all labels that released their stuff throughout the years.

Less than 18,000,000 in the biggest market of the world the last 45 years. Where "over 100 million copies albums worldwide" that everyone is talking about comes from? Can you ask your friend how many albums thinks Iron Maiden sold overall?

 

[Randalf]

Where "over 100 million copies albums worldwide" that everyone is talking about comes from?

Well to be fair, Maiden album sales have often been more than double in Europe alone when compared to U.S sales, so they absolutely have sold significant amounts worldwide; in that sense, 100 million copies, live albums and other shit included, is not that big of a stretch. Not sure if chartmasters.org is totally reliable on this matter, but various other sources seem to offer similar numbers.

 

[____no5]

Not sure if chartmasters.org is totally reliable on this matter, but various other sources seem to offer similar numbers.

I remember this site, someone mentioned it in a sales thread or something a few ages ago.
I think it could be reliable, there's a good methodology but still we are at ~60 mil. Add everything else together, Lives, Videos etc., and that's another 40 mil.? Quite far fetched.

**FYR, now Wikipedia gives 130 mil. total sales for Maiden I didn't even considered it when I posted before, quite ridiculous how those numbers keep rising unchallenged.

 

[Sabawish]

Few things that need addressing

1) how are guns n roses not metal? Paradise city is about as heavy as anything maiden have done

2) are rammstein really bigger? I don’t think so in the UK

3) it seems odd to call a band that will play in stadiums this summer non mainstream

 

[Nomadd]

I remember this site, someone mentioned it in a sales thread or something a few ages ago.
I think it could be reliable, there's a good methodology but still we are at ~60 mil. Add everything else together, Lives, Videos etc., and that's another 40 mil.? Quite far fetched.

**FYR, now Wikipedia gives 130 mil. total sales for Maiden I didn't even considered it when I posted before, quite ridiculous how those numbers keep rising unchallenged.

The reliable sources around (excluding Wiki) state "well over 100 mln" - the industry sources, Warner Music/EMI/Parlophone - everywhere. You may not believe that, but I may tell you I don't believe the sales figures of any band. If the figure was the lie, reliable data and studies done by industry and producers (big labels anyway) would falsify the data sooner or later.

 

[Nomadd]

Few things that need addressing

1) how are guns n roses not metal? Paradise city is about as heavy as anything maiden have done

2) are rammstein really bigger? I don’t think so in the UK

3) it seems odd to call a band that will play in stadiums this summer non mainstream

So, you may say the same about KISS, Van Halen, Def Leppard and any other hard rock band (even ZZ Top). One or just some songs may sound a little harder/faster, but GENERALLY G'NR is more hard rock/rock and roll vibe than metal, which - apart from music, is dark, dangerous, and not familiar to casual listeners. The images and aesthetics are significant. On the other hand, Ghost looks like a metal band, but their music is GENERALLY hard rock/AOR with pop melodies and choruses. This is it.

 

[Azas]

"What went wrong?"
It all went down the drain the very minute they scrapped the behind-the-curtains idea for the Three Amigos to dance Irish jigs throughout the entire concert. According to some insider sources, the three guitarists were actually pretty damn good at it. In fact, they were about to put Riverdance to shame. And yes—while playing guitar. Even during solos.
Sources say Rod was over the moon with how the stage show looked, all that intense dancing and energy. But, as always, Steve had to be the innovation/mood killer. He got paranoid that sooner or later he’d have to join that fast-footed spectacle himself. Because, as we all know, the more rigid your upper body and the more insane your footwork, the better.
So yeah—Steve is definitely, unavoidably, the root of all evil here. I mean, Bruce and Adrian literally wrote The Evil That Men Do decades ago. Hello? That track is clearly about that control freak character. And the fact they credited Steve on it? Pure misdirection. They were trying to confuse the very source of evil itself.
Anyway, I hope this explanation—based on reliable insider sources, of course—sheds light on the whole thing once and for all.
Huh. I'm so pissed off right now. Maiden could’ve been so much bigger. All those foot fetishists would’ve been totally on board with us. A terrible, terrible loss.

 

[dickinson1978]

I remember this site, someone mentioned it in a sales thread or something a few ages ago.
I think it could be reliable, there's a good methodology but still we are at ~60 mil. Add everything else together, Lives, Videos etc., and that's another 40 mil.? Quite far fetched.

**FYR, now Wikipedia gives 130 mil. total sales for Maiden I didn't even considered it when I posted before, quite ridiculous how those numbers keep rising unchallenged.

I dont know how can someone complain. Maybe now they are as big as the 80s or even bigger. And they are not comercial.

 

[Yax]

I dont know how can someone complain. Maybe now they are as big as the 80s or even bigger. And they are not comercial.

Physical sales have however plummeted. I'm also extremely wary of sales figures.

 

[____no5]

I dont know how can someone complain. Maybe now they are as big as the 80s or even bigger. And they are not comercial.

It's not about complaining, but it's borderline comical those figures that go higher beyond belief.

 

[dickinson1978]

Physical sales have however plummeted. I'm also extremely wary of sales figures.

Well that its true. But maybe for all the bands due to downloads

 

[dickinson1978]

It's not about complaining, but it's borderline comical those figures that go higher beyond belief.

Wich figures? Attendance or sales?

 

[CA Bryers]

I dont know how can someone complain. Maybe now they are as big as the 80s or even bigger. And they are not comercial.

It's like...what's the solution here? Did Rod fail the band by not pushing them to derail from Steve's "sticking to his guns" mentality and go commercial? Release their own Black Album?

Had that been the case, we'd have threads proclaiming Rod failed the band by doing exactly that instead of letting Steve stay true to his vision of the band.

 

[dickinson1978]

It's like...what's the solution here? Did Rod fail the band by not pushing them to derail from Steve's "sticking to his guns" mentality and go commercial? Release their own Black Album?

Had that been the case, we'd have threads proclaiming Rod failed the band by doing exactly that instead of letting Steve stay true to his vision of the band.

The x factor is our black album. And that is a good representation of what they think. A dark depressive and weird album with a new almost unknown singer.

 

[Black Abyss Babe]

Maybe they don't need to be "more successful" than they are?
Maybe they don't define "success" purely in terms of numbers of units shifted?
Maybe the price of "more success" would have been unacceptable compromises of their own values?
Maybe what Rod actually did was to shield them from the pressure to be more "everyone else" and less authentically themselves: thus creating an envirnoment where Steve and co could thrive, achieving whatever success they might rightfully earn on their own terms?

Just a few thoughts ...

 

[dickinson1978]

Maybe they don't need to be "more successful" than they are?
Maybe they don't define "success" purely in terms of numbers of units shifted?
Maybe the price of "more success" would have been unacceptable compromises of their own values?
Maybe what Rod actually did was to shield them from the pressure to be more "everyone else" and less authentically themselves: thus creating an envirnoment where Steve and co could thrive, achiving whatever success they might rightfully earn on their own terms?

Just a few thoughts ...

I cant remember the words bruce said about what MTV think about them in the 90s. Something about old ugly and with grassy hairs are not what they want. But like bruce says that kind of things

 

[Nomadd]

The next level for them is Metallica, but maybe "the price of 'more success' would have been unacceptable compromises of their values"? If they wanted to be more and more acceptable to casual listeners, they would change the band's approach a lot. Image, lyrics, sound, just the name of the band could be one thing that stays as usual. They are not pretty boys with ballads and beach-themed rock 'n' roll for the masses. Maiden is Maiden and that's it! And remember, the more popular among casual listeners are artists, more people decide about the next moves in their careers, so finally, they transform into a media-oriented marketing product, completely unauthentic. Every rose has its thorn.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

100% agreed here. These guys could be as big as Metallica if they had a more creative manager in touch with the changing popular music landscape.

Those late 80s albums, as great as they are, would have been the time for them to go in even further on synths and really work towards a hit (Wasted Years was a step in the right direction). Instead, they doubled back on that sound and tried to sound more "street" and "rock" on NPFTD and FOTD. Then the 90s were the perfect opportunity for them to embrace a darker, more aggressive sound - instead they went sad and proggy.

With a proper management team behind them they could have really increased popularity in the 90s. That would, unfortunately, probably mean we wouldn't have gotten the reunion with Bruce, but just think of the possibilities!