IRON MAIDEN REFERENDUM 2020: Results -> Hallowed Be Thy Name wins for the 5th time!
- Thread starter Night Prowler
- Start date
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Well, sure, I wasn't criticizing the game so much as Maiden's choice in tracklisting.
First off, I noticed that I voted for El Dorado when I wanted to vote for Satellite 15... The Final Frontier. Please fix, @Night Prowler
Final Frontier is a nice song, it has a great hook and all, but I think it's ultimately nothing special. As with many other songs on the album (and as discussed here), Bruce sounds quite strained. It's also a song that could have benefited from a more complex and melodic chorus. They did it right with Different World, and were already going in the right way with Wildest Dreams, so for an opening rocker, this feels like a step back. The instrumental section is class, but it just doesn't shine when compared with the better songs on the album.
Overall, TFF isn't really a very good album. The first half really drags it down. The second half has all the good stuff, but as mentioned earlier, it ultimately suffers from the fact that it was written for 80's Bruce, who wasn't there to sing it anymore. There is also some really lacklustre songwriting, with Mother of Mercy and The Alchemist. Coming Home is a decent remake of Out of the Shadows, giving Adrian the spotlight rather than Dave, which is fine. I think the subject of the song is rather pedestrian if you compare it to the predecessor - flying your plane vs the miracle of birth. It's a great live number, though. Singing along to it with tens of thousands of people at the O2 in 2011 was a special experience. El Dorado is fun, I like the riff a lot and I still think the lyrics are very inspired, even if they may not have the same impact anymore as back in 2010.
The good stuff is in the second half of the album. Isle of Avalon is a daring piece of songwriting which is quite underappreciated. Starblind still has the best lyrics in the Maiden catalogue and the music works together with it to give it an ethereal feel. The Talisman is also a great storytelling type of song, although Bruce's vocals are quite strained at times. I still haven't warmed up to The Man Who Would Be King, despite trying really hard to like it, because on paper it has everything I like about a Maiden epic. When the Wild Wind Blows manages to bring the album to a satisfying close nevertheless. It's a great song all around, with all the Maiden trademarks.
Moving on to TBOS, it's a much, much better album. I never actually wrote down my opinion on the album on this board, so bear with me. I know the following isn't Pulitzer-worthy, but I'm not claiming to write a review of the album either. Just some brief attempts to sum up my feelings.
If Eternity Should Fail is a great opener. It has a marvelous build-up and one of my favourite choruses of all Maiden songs. This is what I meant when I criticised The Final Frontier: A rocker can have a complex chorus, because these are much more fun to sing along to! I also love how Bruce managed to put every instrument in the spotlight, especially in the mid-part. I sometimes think he understands Maiden best of all the songwriters.
Speed of Light is meh. It's just a Deep Purple tribute - a good one at that, but still. It really feels a bit out of place on the album. This is what b-sides used to be for.
The Great Unknown gave me the same feeling as These Colours Don't Run on AMOLAD. It is an intense introduction to the album itself and the world it develops.
The Red and the Black assembles all Maiden trademarks, and I guess it's this lack of originality that people dislike about the song. But come on... this is 13 minutes of pure Maiden! I think I once compared it to opening a treasure chest full of gold. Sure, there are no diamonds and rubies in it, but it's filled to the rim with music that I love, so what if I've heard it all before somehow?
I dislike When the River Runs Deep, because it has a rather tacky rhythm (I'm not sure this is the best way to describe it), and the music doesn't feel like it has and depth to me, which is ironic considering the title.
The Book of Souls is one of those typical Janick epics. The guy knows how to write a song, and despite clearly having his handwriting, it has many original moments. It is a thoroughly majestic song worthy of the ancient civilisation it draws a painting of, and it has so many great little moments, like the repetition of the leitmotif followed by the heavy instrumental section in the middle.
Death or Glory is the best rocker they wrote since The Wicker Man, and a great throwback to the 80's. A very dramatic song that does great service to its subject matter. This shits on Iced Earth's abomination about the Red Baron like an albatross on a camel.
Shadows of the Valley does seem to be a bit aimless, just like the protagonist of the story. I just don't really see what the song is trying to be, it seems to be stitched together from several very good ideas that are executed brilliantly but they all just don't really fit together all that well. For example, I really enjoy both the pre-chorus and the chorus, but I don't think they follow logically. The riff that follows the chorus completely then seems to change the tone of the song. The woah-oh part has a great melody but feels out of place. They should have made two songs out of these ideas.
Tears of a Clown is a poignant, thoughtful masterpiece. It hits close to home on a personal level for me, but it is also a great midtempo song which manages to be both heavy and tactful to its subject matter. I can't listen to this without at least getting a faint lump in my throat. It talks about a subject matter that can very easily descend to kitsch and cheese (as the title already indicates) without actually doing so, and I think one of the reasons is that it is written as a no-frills old-school heavy metal song, and not a string-and-piano ballad.
The Man of Sorrows is a very surprising, heavy number which ends up descending into Iommi-esque blues, which I think is what happens when you loosen Dave's reins a bit. Adrian once said in an interview (in the German Rock Hard magazine, no I don't have a link, I have the printed magazine stowed away in a box 1300 km away, don't ask me for it) that the guitarists never write songs together because all that would come out of it would be some bluesy jamming. A very nice song which seems to succeed in what The Man Who Would Be King tried to do.
Empire of the Clouds is a pompous, overblown, ridiculous piece written by an absolute madman with true passion for what he is doing, and that is why it works perfectly. Bruce narrates the Decline and Fall of the British Empire by proxy of the story the R101, in a way that it pays tribute to the pomp and circumstances the British love so much and at the same time turns it into a truly vicious caricature. It's easy to be impressed by an 18-minute song and laud the songwriter for it, but Bruce really is doing something new that hasn't been done by Maiden before, or by any other metal band, really. He manages to evoke grand images of a blimp flying majestically over the clouds by the use of a piano and a march rhythm alone, and creates an impressionist musical vision of a storm that works the same way as the paintings of William Turner. At the same time he sings witty lines about people who take themselves too seriously and end up perishing thanks to their own hybris. Amazing song.
Final Frontier is a nice song, it has a great hook and all, but I think it's ultimately nothing special. As with many other songs on the album (and as discussed here), Bruce sounds quite strained. It's also a song that could have benefited from a more complex and melodic chorus. They did it right with Different World, and were already going in the right way with Wildest Dreams, so for an opening rocker, this feels like a step back. The instrumental section is class, but it just doesn't shine when compared with the better songs on the album.
Overall, TFF isn't really a very good album. The first half really drags it down. The second half has all the good stuff, but as mentioned earlier, it ultimately suffers from the fact that it was written for 80's Bruce, who wasn't there to sing it anymore. There is also some really lacklustre songwriting, with Mother of Mercy and The Alchemist. Coming Home is a decent remake of Out of the Shadows, giving Adrian the spotlight rather than Dave, which is fine. I think the subject of the song is rather pedestrian if you compare it to the predecessor - flying your plane vs the miracle of birth. It's a great live number, though. Singing along to it with tens of thousands of people at the O2 in 2011 was a special experience. El Dorado is fun, I like the riff a lot and I still think the lyrics are very inspired, even if they may not have the same impact anymore as back in 2010.
The good stuff is in the second half of the album. Isle of Avalon is a daring piece of songwriting which is quite underappreciated. Starblind still has the best lyrics in the Maiden catalogue and the music works together with it to give it an ethereal feel. The Talisman is also a great storytelling type of song, although Bruce's vocals are quite strained at times. I still haven't warmed up to The Man Who Would Be King, despite trying really hard to like it, because on paper it has everything I like about a Maiden epic. When the Wild Wind Blows manages to bring the album to a satisfying close nevertheless. It's a great song all around, with all the Maiden trademarks.
Moving on to TBOS, it's a much, much better album. I never actually wrote down my opinion on the album on this board, so bear with me. I know the following isn't Pulitzer-worthy, but I'm not claiming to write a review of the album either. Just some brief attempts to sum up my feelings.
If Eternity Should Fail is a great opener. It has a marvelous build-up and one of my favourite choruses of all Maiden songs. This is what I meant when I criticised The Final Frontier: A rocker can have a complex chorus, because these are much more fun to sing along to! I also love how Bruce managed to put every instrument in the spotlight, especially in the mid-part. I sometimes think he understands Maiden best of all the songwriters.
Speed of Light is meh. It's just a Deep Purple tribute - a good one at that, but still. It really feels a bit out of place on the album. This is what b-sides used to be for.
The Great Unknown gave me the same feeling as These Colours Don't Run on AMOLAD. It is an intense introduction to the album itself and the world it develops.
The Red and the Black assembles all Maiden trademarks, and I guess it's this lack of originality that people dislike about the song. But come on... this is 13 minutes of pure Maiden! I think I once compared it to opening a treasure chest full of gold. Sure, there are no diamonds and rubies in it, but it's filled to the rim with music that I love, so what if I've heard it all before somehow?
I dislike When the River Runs Deep, because it has a rather tacky rhythm (I'm not sure this is the best way to describe it), and the music doesn't feel like it has and depth to me, which is ironic considering the title.
The Book of Souls is one of those typical Janick epics. The guy knows how to write a song, and despite clearly having his handwriting, it has many original moments. It is a thoroughly majestic song worthy of the ancient civilisation it draws a painting of, and it has so many great little moments, like the repetition of the leitmotif followed by the heavy instrumental section in the middle.
Death or Glory is the best rocker they wrote since The Wicker Man, and a great throwback to the 80's. A very dramatic song that does great service to its subject matter. This shits on Iced Earth's abomination about the Red Baron like an albatross on a camel.
Shadows of the Valley does seem to be a bit aimless, just like the protagonist of the story. I just don't really see what the song is trying to be, it seems to be stitched together from several very good ideas that are executed brilliantly but they all just don't really fit together all that well. For example, I really enjoy both the pre-chorus and the chorus, but I don't think they follow logically. The riff that follows the chorus completely then seems to change the tone of the song. The woah-oh part has a great melody but feels out of place. They should have made two songs out of these ideas.
Tears of a Clown is a poignant, thoughtful masterpiece. It hits close to home on a personal level for me, but it is also a great midtempo song which manages to be both heavy and tactful to its subject matter. I can't listen to this without at least getting a faint lump in my throat. It talks about a subject matter that can very easily descend to kitsch and cheese (as the title already indicates) without actually doing so, and I think one of the reasons is that it is written as a no-frills old-school heavy metal song, and not a string-and-piano ballad.
The Man of Sorrows is a very surprising, heavy number which ends up descending into Iommi-esque blues, which I think is what happens when you loosen Dave's reins a bit. Adrian once said in an interview (in the German Rock Hard magazine, no I don't have a link, I have the printed magazine stowed away in a box 1300 km away, don't ask me for it) that the guitarists never write songs together because all that would come out of it would be some bluesy jamming. A very nice song which seems to succeed in what The Man Who Would Be King tried to do.
Empire of the Clouds is a pompous, overblown, ridiculous piece written by an absolute madman with true passion for what he is doing, and that is why it works perfectly. Bruce narrates the Decline and Fall of the British Empire by proxy of the story the R101, in a way that it pays tribute to the pomp and circumstances the British love so much and at the same time turns it into a truly vicious caricature. It's easy to be impressed by an 18-minute song and laud the songwriter for it, but Bruce really is doing something new that hasn't been done by Maiden before, or by any other metal band, really. He manages to evoke grand images of a blimp flying majestically over the clouds by the use of a piano and a march rhythm alone, and creates an impressionist musical vision of a storm that works the same way as the paintings of William Turner. At the same time he sings witty lines about people who take themselves too seriously and end up perishing thanks to their own hybris. Amazing song.
Eliminated after Round 2:
Shadows Of The Valley - 16 votes
Satellite 15...The Final Frontier - 16 votes
The Alchemist - 15 votes
El Dorado - 13 votes
The Great Unknown - 11 votes
DJ James
A coma stole my name.
Goodnight sweet prince.
Voted for:
- The Red and the Black (I will admit that part in it where the underlying guitar carries the same melody with Bruce is wonderful)
- Death or Glory
- Tears of a Clown
- Empire of the Clouds (too long, too boring)
- Coming Home
Lampwick 43
Barstool Warrior
Lampwick 43
Barstool Warrior
Speed of Light
Death or Glory
Tears of a Clown
Coming Home
The Talisman
Death or Glory
Tears of a Clown
Coming Home
The Talisman
KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
If Eternity Should Fail
Speed of Light
Tears of a Clown
WTWWB
The rest of the songs are all 10/10.
Speed of Light
Tears of a Clown
WTWWB
The rest of the songs are all 10/10.
Last edited:
Shmoolikipod
Stranger to the Light
I'm voting only for Coming Home now, the other songs are just far better. But after that, I don't know what I'm going to do... I think TRATB because there are times I can see the length criticism, Speed of Light and Death or Glory are tied for me, and one of the remaining long songs that isn't Empire, Avalon or Talisman.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
Solid review @Perun.
More like an albatross shitting on a mariner! I agree about 'Death or Glory' being a throwback to the 80s. I think of it as a tantalizing glimpse at what it was like to hear new Iron Maiden in the 80s, especially since after 'The Final Frontier' I didn't think they'd ever manage to write something like that again. I'd love them to do more like this on the next album if it ever sees the light of day. But I'd also just like them to release the album.
I've voted for Speed of Light, The Red and the Black, The Talisman, and When the Wild Wind Blows.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
This one was tough. Starblind was the only easy vote. Avalon is an interesting epic but not at the same level as the rest of the songs here, and Coming Home is great but it’s not one I come back to very often. Then to throw in something from TBOS, I decided on Speed Of Light, because it’s the least great of the songs that remain from that album.
The Dissident
Ancient Mariner
Tears Of A Clown
Isle Of Avalon
Starblind
When The Wild Wind Blows
Isle Of Avalon
Starblind
When The Wild Wind Blows
Yes, I'm voting to Starblind too. Wonderful lyrics, song pootles along and doesn't live up to the lyrics.
KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
Starblind is a masterpiece. I couldn't imagine voting for it.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
It's also a very simple song. Nothing complex at all.
