Iron Maiden lyrics tournament final: Empire of the Clouds rises above all
- Thread starter mckindog
- Start date
I'm curious to see the reaction to No More Lies.
It's a bit borderline to me; I like the message more than the execution.
But I am curious if the frequent bashing of the repetitive chorus carries over to this discussion.
To me, it is irrelevant to the quality of the lyrics.
It's a bit borderline to me; I like the message more than the execution.
But I am curious if the frequent bashing of the repetitive chorus carries over to this discussion.
To me, it is irrelevant to the quality of the lyrics.
I had the same exact thought process. I initially checked its box but then after giving it some thought I realized that aside from the repetitive chorus -which I agree is usually irrelevant- it's a really strong lyric. There's some really effective imagery in it too.
An example of repetitiveness being relevant is Another Life.
Message v execution is something that's making me hold off voting. There are plenty of songs I like musically that I can accept don't have the finest lyrics, but there are also some in which I think the message is a good one, but the craftsmanship of the lyrics themselves not so good. And I sometimes wonder if someone deserves a gold star just for finding any lyrics at all which kind of go along to the music.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
THIS:
+
Man on the Edge - Awkward phrasing while trying to recall the plot of the film, mixing heavy emotional lyrics with mundane every day life subjects (a pet peeve of mine).
Sanctuary/Prodigal Son - Jumbled story lines again. Phrasing that suggests the song has a very specific point which the lyrics never get to.
Gangland - Because bad.
The Educated Fool - Awkward phrasing, repetitive and simplistic "deep" questioning lines and uncompleted lines.
+
Man on the Edge - Awkward phrasing while trying to recall the plot of the film, mixing heavy emotional lyrics with mundane every day life subjects (a pet peeve of mine).
Sanctuary/Prodigal Son - Jumbled story lines again. Phrasing that suggests the song has a very specific point which the lyrics never get to.
Gangland - Because bad.
The Educated Fool - Awkward phrasing, repetitive and simplistic "deep" questioning lines and uncompleted lines.
Interesting because that's a pet peeve of mine too, but I feel Man On the Edge really captures the frustrations that come with the mundane. Both in the music and the lyrics.
I could be a lot meaner to a lot of the earlier material, but since it fits the mood or music of the time I'm going to be more charitable.
Another Life - It doesn't do much at all, really.
Gangland - It's a bit half-baked, I would have thought there was plenty of material there to inspire something way more dramatic with some good storytelling
The Prophecy - Although I'm musically okay with this and SSOASS is one of my favourite albums, it sounds like it's a bit of hurried storytelling to carry the tale forward, without much artistic flair
Hooks in You - Slightly tacky and a big step back to 70s/early 80s perhaps? Doesn't tie in with everything else at this stage.
The Nomad - Musically I like this one, but the lyrics and theme? If it's meant to be a romanticised view of nomadic desert peoples or personification of the culture as a legendary figure, it does nothing to build the enigma. It's more like a series of observations.
Another Life - It doesn't do much at all, really.
Gangland - It's a bit half-baked, I would have thought there was plenty of material there to inspire something way more dramatic with some good storytelling
The Prophecy - Although I'm musically okay with this and SSOASS is one of my favourite albums, it sounds like it's a bit of hurried storytelling to carry the tale forward, without much artistic flair
Hooks in You - Slightly tacky and a big step back to 70s/early 80s perhaps? Doesn't tie in with everything else at this stage.
The Nomad - Musically I like this one, but the lyrics and theme? If it's meant to be a romanticised view of nomadic desert peoples or personification of the culture as a legendary figure, it does nothing to build the enigma. It's more like a series of observations.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I feel like that is how I would describe half of Steve Harris' lyric writing: "At his best, he seems to transcend the ability to meld theme with sound while delivering true emotional resonance, at his worst he writes nothing more than a moody series of pondering observations."
Which brings us on to: whose lyrics are the best? 
I suspect it's Bruce's.
I suspect it's Bruce's.JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
No More Lies are at worst mediocre, but it is also one of the cases where the repetition of the chorus is justified, IMHO.
Running Free/Another Life/Sanctuary - Early juvenile shit, neither better nor worse than any hard rock band...
Hooks in You - A complete lyrical throwaway...
The Prisoner - "If you kill me, it's self defence // If I kill you, they'll call it vengeance", I always cringe at that one (good idea, but bad execution). The chorus is also very so so. I realise I'm alone in that regard, but still...
Icarus - A clumsy retelling of a classic story, full of clichés and weird lines (the second verse, mainly)
Can I Play with Madness - Again, clichés and it's somewhat nonsensical as a whole.
Quest for Fire - No comment, really, it's just silly. Gangland is very mediocre, IMHO.
Most of the rest I more or less like.
Running Free/Another Life/Sanctuary - Early juvenile shit, neither better nor worse than any hard rock band...
Hooks in You - A complete lyrical throwaway...
The Prisoner - "If you kill me, it's self defence // If I kill you, they'll call it vengeance", I always cringe at that one (good idea, but bad execution). The chorus is also very so so. I realise I'm alone in that regard, but still...
Icarus - A clumsy retelling of a classic story, full of clichés and weird lines (the second verse, mainly)
Can I Play with Madness - Again, clichés and it's somewhat nonsensical as a whole.
Quest for Fire - No comment, really, it's just silly. Gangland is very mediocre, IMHO.
Most of the rest I more or less like.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Which brings us on to: whose lyrics are the best?
Hey now, don't jump the gun! We're currently only allowed to be negative!
Another Life As @Mosh said, these are just lazy and written on the off chance that they may have meaning. Is it supposed to be about depression, addiction, suicide or something else? The song offers three verses to explore these rather serious questions, but it just repeats the same thing twice. The words also go very awkwardly in the melodies in the "Oh what it is I wanna know" part. You can't sing this without sounding slurry. And seriously, "as I lay here lying on my bed"?
Man on the Edge I usually defend these lyrics because people keep misunderstanding or misinterpreting them. But that in itself is already a sign of problems. It's really just picking up very random elements from the film and putting them into verse form. Admittedly, it's not just a re-telling of the film's plot but also contains elements of reflection on the story, but that doesn't help very much in this case. The song is too simplistic and straight-forward to benefit from such complex layers. On a very bad day, I also find the repetitions of the chorus a bit tedious.
Gangland At first glance, there's nothing really wrong, but at second, there's nothing really right. First of all, it's too verbose. There are too many words that tell us too little, and they force the vocal melodies to be too awkward. This can't be delivered in the cutting, brooding way that was probably intended. A prime example is the line "A rat in a trap but you've got to survive". You can hear Bruce tripping over the second half of the line. What's worse is, the words are completely unpolished. The first verse has three lines beginning with "you", except for the first one, and this pattern is picked up nowhere else. The lyricist - Clive? - couldn't decide on whether to use long, atmospheric words ("Shadows may hide"), or short, cutting phrases ("A rat in a trap"). Most awkward of all however, is the completely undecided rhyming scheme. First verse rhymes (AABB ); second rhymes partly (AABC), third one doesn't at all (ABCD) and fourth one partly rhymes again (AABC).
Quest for Fire Let's look beyond the dinosaurs. I get it, this is not supposed to be taken too seriously, it's just an adventure story about a bunch of cavemen. But the lyrics still aren't terribly well-written. It's a very unimaginative way of storytelling if the lines begin with "then the tribes", "and the wolves", "so they plowed", "and they fought". The first verse is actually the best one, because it does a decent job of setting the scene by evoking a powerful image. This tacky way of storytelling also doesn't do the rest of the song justice, especially the very dramatic instrumental section. It could have been made to fit together if Steve just put a bit more effort into the way he tells the story.
Here are some that I'm unsure about, but ended up not voting for:
Running Free / The Prisoner Both these have really cheesy lyrics that really don't have any depth to them. But thing is, they fit to their respective songs like hand in glove. If you're writing a high octane song, you need lyrics like these to transmit the drive. So this way, I can't really say they're bad.
Back in the Village I almost voted for this. I really dislike the song, and for a large part it's because I think it has one of Bruce's worst album performances ever, a completely awkward vocal melody and needlessly revisits the Prisoner topic. But the lyrics themselves aren't all that bad. They're well-written and produce a powerful imagery. But since they go together with the music poorly, I'm still a bit undecided.
Hooks in You Again, I really dislike the song, but I have to admit that I appreciate the lyrics more than I used to. Considering the back story Bruce told, it's really easy to see that this is one of his more inspired outings. I can relate to it, because I keep thinking of the abyss that looms behind so many average, bourgeoise façades. The idea of the song is great, and the lyrics are Bruce's typical wit.
The Nomad Objectively, I should vote for this, but I don't have the heart. The song in general and the lyrics in particular are nostalgic as hell to me, because they were what essentially got me into Maiden. Sure, the words are awfully cheesy, but they struck a chord with 15-year old me, so they are doing something right.
Man on the Edge I usually defend these lyrics because people keep misunderstanding or misinterpreting them. But that in itself is already a sign of problems. It's really just picking up very random elements from the film and putting them into verse form. Admittedly, it's not just a re-telling of the film's plot but also contains elements of reflection on the story, but that doesn't help very much in this case. The song is too simplistic and straight-forward to benefit from such complex layers. On a very bad day, I also find the repetitions of the chorus a bit tedious.
Gangland At first glance, there's nothing really wrong, but at second, there's nothing really right. First of all, it's too verbose. There are too many words that tell us too little, and they force the vocal melodies to be too awkward. This can't be delivered in the cutting, brooding way that was probably intended. A prime example is the line "A rat in a trap but you've got to survive". You can hear Bruce tripping over the second half of the line. What's worse is, the words are completely unpolished. The first verse has three lines beginning with "you", except for the first one, and this pattern is picked up nowhere else. The lyricist - Clive? - couldn't decide on whether to use long, atmospheric words ("Shadows may hide"), or short, cutting phrases ("A rat in a trap"). Most awkward of all however, is the completely undecided rhyming scheme. First verse rhymes (AABB ); second rhymes partly (AABC), third one doesn't at all (ABCD) and fourth one partly rhymes again (AABC).
Quest for Fire Let's look beyond the dinosaurs. I get it, this is not supposed to be taken too seriously, it's just an adventure story about a bunch of cavemen. But the lyrics still aren't terribly well-written. It's a very unimaginative way of storytelling if the lines begin with "then the tribes", "and the wolves", "so they plowed", "and they fought". The first verse is actually the best one, because it does a decent job of setting the scene by evoking a powerful image. This tacky way of storytelling also doesn't do the rest of the song justice, especially the very dramatic instrumental section. It could have been made to fit together if Steve just put a bit more effort into the way he tells the story.
Here are some that I'm unsure about, but ended up not voting for:
Running Free / The Prisoner Both these have really cheesy lyrics that really don't have any depth to them. But thing is, they fit to their respective songs like hand in glove. If you're writing a high octane song, you need lyrics like these to transmit the drive. So this way, I can't really say they're bad.
Back in the Village I almost voted for this. I really dislike the song, and for a large part it's because I think it has one of Bruce's worst album performances ever, a completely awkward vocal melody and needlessly revisits the Prisoner topic. But the lyrics themselves aren't all that bad. They're well-written and produce a powerful imagery. But since they go together with the music poorly, I'm still a bit undecided.
Hooks in You Again, I really dislike the song, but I have to admit that I appreciate the lyrics more than I used to. Considering the back story Bruce told, it's really easy to see that this is one of his more inspired outings. I can relate to it, because I keep thinking of the abyss that looms behind so many average, bourgeoise façades. The idea of the song is great, and the lyrics are Bruce's typical wit.
The Nomad Objectively, I should vote for this, but I don't have the heart. The song in general and the lyrics in particular are nostalgic as hell to me, because they were what essentially got me into Maiden. Sure, the words are awfully cheesy, but they struck a chord with 15-year old me, so they are doing something right.
Bruce is by far the best lyricist in the band, but I think he's also the only one who prioritizes the lyrics as much as the music. If anything is obvious in this thread, it's that Steve's lyrics are very inconsistent. I think he was originally the primary lyric writer by default, not because he had a lot to say. So he has his moments of brilliance but often his lyrics seem rushed and a bit directionless. That's still true today, though he's mostly gotten better.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Not that much, really. I just value the others less. You're right, it's preachy and somewhat generic, the title/last stanza is undoubtedly the best thing about it.
But then again, take each my comment with a grain of salt, because - even though I wanted not to be controversial for once - there are going to be some weird preferences by yours truly.
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Collin
Chasing Ponce De Leon's Phantoms
I went with quite a few here.
Running Free
Another Life
Flash of the Blade
Madness
NPFTD
Man on the Edge
Lightning
BTATS
Sanctuary
Prodigal Son
Gangland
Quest
Prophecy
Hooks
Judas
Educated
Edge of Darkness
Face in the Sand
The Talisman is another strong candidate to win this game.
Running Free
Another Life
Flash of the Blade
Madness
NPFTD
Man on the Edge
Lightning
BTATS
Sanctuary
Prodigal Son
Gangland
Quest
Prophecy
Hooks
Judas
Educated
Edge of Darkness
Face in the Sand
The Talisman is another strong candidate to win this game.
I'm with Judas on Face, in that I generally agree with your take.
Meh on the verses, I quite like the chorus.
It's not among the worst of this group but if it makes the cut I can't see it lasting.
As far as Stranger goes, I find it at a similar level to Face. Another day I might have switched my votes.
I think Bruce's awesome delivery lends more weight to the verses than what's really there.
There are some nice images but no payoff, and the chorus is lacklustre.
Is it a narrative or a metaphor?
It's almost like Adrian (correctly) recognized there was a profound life message in this story he'd heard of the frozen explorer, but couldn't quite figure out what that was.
Meh on the verses, I quite like the chorus.
It's not among the worst of this group but if it makes the cut I can't see it lasting.
As far as Stranger goes, I find it at a similar level to Face. Another day I might have switched my votes.
I think Bruce's awesome delivery lends more weight to the verses than what's really there.
There are some nice images but no payoff, and the chorus is lacklustre.
Is it a narrative or a metaphor?
It's almost like Adrian (correctly) recognized there was a profound life message in this story he'd heard of the frozen explorer, but couldn't quite figure out what that was.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
This is a six and a half year old post on For the Greater Good of God. I feel less strong about it but still wonder what Steve meant:
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To be honest, I am getting a bit tired of such "complain"-lyrics. I find them a bit outdated, for an open minded songwriter of the 21st century. Is this still rebellious in these ages? When Tull's Aqualung came out in 1971, that was something back in the day! That was new and it shocked some masses, especially in the USA.
LC points out some specific things, but 'Arry's lyrics are vague. They could mean anything. Now if only he had the guts to formulate something more directly....
You know what? Steve Harris knows what life is, he knows what love is, and he knows what war is (though not as well as a soldier of course, but in ATSS he tried well). And again he asks what life is.
Life is as it is, and these constant naive questions to God begin to bore me a bit. Pleeeeeeease. Tell me something, tell me something I know already.
These lyrics would have been more impressive if some monk would sing this in some church mass.
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To be honest, I am getting a bit tired of such "complain"-lyrics. I find them a bit outdated, for an open minded songwriter of the 21st century. Is this still rebellious in these ages? When Tull's Aqualung came out in 1971, that was something back in the day! That was new and it shocked some masses, especially in the USA.
LC points out some specific things, but 'Arry's lyrics are vague. They could mean anything. Now if only he had the guts to formulate something more directly....
Cosmiceddie said:The first chorus is the best part in a Maiden song ever.
Please tell me now what life is
Please tell me know what love is
Well tell me know what war is
Again tell me what life is
Ito Mr. Steve Harris who surpassed himself with this achievement.
You know what? Steve Harris knows what life is, he knows what love is, and he knows what war is (though not as well as a soldier of course, but in ATSS he tried well). And again he asks what life is.
Life is as it is, and these constant naive questions to God begin to bore me a bit. Pleeeeeeease. Tell me something, tell me something I know already.
These lyrics would have been more impressive if some monk would sing this in some church mass.