Iron Maiden lyrics tournament final: Empire of the Clouds rises above all

[Forostar]

Deja-Vu ... This becomes a problem when the song itself does not provide as much musical depth as some others on the album.

Well explained from your point of view. This sentence triggered me. It also touches the 3rd criterium (the fit) of this game. You rather have lyrics that compensate the not so strong music.

But how do the lyrics fit to the song, to the music?

To be honest, I've never thought well about it. Deja-Vu might not be a deep song but I find it a fresh, sparkling, very dynamic song (the playing, not per se the song structure) with sublime rhythm section accompanied by irresistible guitar (synth). I find it a very pulsating experience. Perhaps its this glorious musical ride that makes me (more) tolerant to simple lyrics.

The song almost sounds as an instrumental with some words added to it. Bruce joins the ride for just over one third of the time. I see him as someone hopping on and of the train. Twice (as in a deja-vu ). But yeah, I guess that when he joins, the lyrics could be stronger than this. Still, I like the directness of these words.
It fits. I'd also love to see a deeper dive into the surreal as Per explained, but only if Bruce hops off the train on time, exactly the way he does now.

 

[Perun]

You rather have lyrics that compensate the not so strong music.

I don't know if you can generalise that. It's just something I noticed with this particular song.

I'll be honest here: I'm not setting out to do any kind of meta-reflection on what I think is important in lyrics or what type of lyrics I like or not. Right now, I'm just playing this game by its rules and look into each song and see why I do or do not think the lyrics are good, why they connect with me or not and whether I think they fit to the song. Maybe, in the end when all is said and done and there have been many constructive discussions about the lyrics, I will come out with a clearer image of a broader scale of what I like or don't like about lyrics. But right now, I'm not thinking about that.

 

[mckindog]

I think Holy Smoke has a certain level of clever snark - not exactly a lasting form of high expression, but it works for me on that level.

I disagree that it was jumping on the pile late. Jim Bakker was indicted for fraud in 88. Jimmy Swaggart made his tearful "I have sinned" confession that same year. No Prayer was Maidens first opportunity to respond to these hypocrites, who had targeted them as the work of Satan. I remember when the song was released. It resonated.

But Perun nailed the issue with the lyrics. They are purely the product of their environment and don't stand the test of time.

 

[Forostar]

I wasn't aiming to move the focus towards general views. The sentence applied to this particular song although it certainly can be seen as a general statement as well. For now, it rather was a bridge to the rest I said.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

I find Man of Sorrows among Steve's deepest and best lyrics.

In Christian iconography the Man of Sorrows is the aspect of Christ suffering to free us from our sins:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_of_Sorrows

Steve deftly parallels this with a terminally ill patient forced to continue living to assuage the guilt and grief of society. He forces us to actually look at what the patient is going through and delivers a sensitive plea for mercy killing.

Free the anguished from their pain
Free the captives from their chains
Cast aside the doubt that
Nothing good can come their way again

His meter is excellent, his images excellent, his topic important and his message deep.
And it is a perfect fit with Dave's sad and beautiful music.

Steve made reference to losing someone important to him during the BOS recording.
I think this one comes from the heart.

These are all great points and make me respect the song a lot more. However, for a song with such deep lyrics, you'd think that he wouldn't overlook a line as inanely boneheaded as, "Now we need to know the truth now."

What is so terrible about these lines? By asking these questions there's an interesting interaction, but more important, we feel that the author is wondering about a subject. This form emphasizes awe about the phenomenon that is called deja-vu. This form is unusual, but not terrible.

Agreed. I find the lyrics to Deja-Vu to be overly simplistic, but not terrible. They work for what the song is trying to accomplish.

I would see your point if the song didn't have a title, or had been called Floating. But it's about Purgatory. The lyrics try to evoke an image of what kind of thing that is - a state of uncertainty. I think this is really well reflected in the lyrics. The narrator doesn't know what's happening, and whether he is alive or dead. Although I admit that I'm a bit stumped on "my body tries to leave my soul", because I'm used to it being the other way around.

Miyamoto Musashi, the topic of the song, was a deeply religious Buddhist, and the wheel of dharma is one of the symbols of Buddhism. It symbolises the way of the world and the ability to see truth beyond illusion, which is very much what Musashi said is a key skill for a successful warrior.

I see your point re: Purgatory, but I just don't think it succeeds at evoking that image. It succeeds at evoking multiple images that don't necessarily fit together very well.

Re: Sun and Steel, I did not know that, and it makes me view the song much better. Kind of like knowing that the Red Baron used to talk of monkeys.

 

[Forostar]

re: social commentary

I'm not really a big fan of this lyrical direction (I think Maiden are at their best at the 'comic book' stuff IMHO), but I'm curious to see what resonates with people.

They resonate with me. I don't care much if things are (too) much attached to a certain period in time. I have no problems getting into a subject, whenever it happened and I can always try to make a link to the present times (as I did with Holy Smoke). I am socially aware as well (very much) so I can appreciate musicians if they unleash their ideals or frustrations (unless I highly disagree with what is said ).

 

[Mosh]

Somehow I missed a bunch of posts here.

@Perun more accurately described my issue with Holy Smoke. It's not so much that it wasn't topical anymore, that sort of message is always going to be relevant, it's the way they presented it that makes it dated. At face value, most of the references in that song are going to be lost on people today unless they do a bit of research on what the song is about. IMO the best lyrics that contain social commentary are the ones that you can't really pin a period of time to. Holy Smoke is firmly planted in the late 80s/early 90s.
A good example of social commentary in lyrics done right is Operation Mindcrime. A lot of those lyrics could've been written in 1968 or 2008 and still have the same relevance and I think that is part of the reason that album held up so well over time. Maiden themselves have succeeded at this. Look at Afraid To Shoot Strangers just a couple years later. The fans and anyone looking at the release year know it's about the Gulf War, but it could've easily been about Iraq/Afghanistan.

On the other hand, the way Perun described Speed of Light is exactly why I enjoy it. It's a bit random but it still paints a visual image to go along with the music. Any lyric that can do at least that much is OK in my book.

Man Of Sorrows is my favorite lyric on the new album. I know we're supposed to try and disconnect a bit from the music, but I feel the music matches on that song matches its lyric just as well as Empire. It's one of the most thought provoking lyrics Steve has written in a long time. Really heralds back to The X Factor.

 

[Perun]

It's not so much that it wasn't topical anymore, that sort of message is always going to be relevant, it's the way they presented it that makes it dated.

That's exactly how I see it. As you said, later songs clearly echo the times they were written in (Afraid to Shoot Strangers, Blood on the World's Hands, El Dorado), but they do a good job at addressing their subjects in a more general and poetic manner, so that they can be applied to many other situations.

On the other hand, the way Perun described Speed of Light is exactly why I enjoy it. It's a bit random but it still paints a visual image to go along with the music. Any lyric that can do at least that much is OK in my book.

Whenever I hear Speed of Light, the only images that come to mind are those from the music video. I could rant about the detachment of music video topic from song topic now, but that would go too far to a different direction.

 

[The Flash]

I strongly disagree that Maiden are at their best with the comic book/fantasy style lyricism. Their socially conscious/topical lyrics are their best works, e.g. Hallowed Be Thy Name, 2 Minutes to Midnight, Paschendale, Brighter Than a Thousand Suns, The Longest Day, El Dorado, Starblind. I'm very glad that they started to incorporate more topical subjects in the Reunion era, it was a sign of them maturing as a band, I thought.

The socially conscious topical approach to lyricism on AMOLAD and the way music accompanies it is the main reason why consider that album the "old age masterpiece" of the band.

Only contrary examples I can give are Revelations and Powerslave, they're very strong lyrically and aren't centered on socially conscious topics.

 

[Brigantium]

I don't see Hallowed as a socially conscious one as such. It touches on a couple of themes that might be, but overall, it's about one character. There's a back story we never quite find out, but it's easy to imagine he's a lifelong fighter or rebel who has killed someone in an act of revenge and then been convicted of murder. That's quite comic book or cinematic in itself.

 

[SixesAlltheway]

The two albums with the most conscious/topical lyrics are the two albums that seems the most hated on these forums - Fear of The Dark and No Prayer.

 

[The Flash]

The two albums with the most conscious/topical lyrics are the two albums that seems the most hated on these forums - Fear of The Dark and No Prayer.

That's because the music sucks

And the lyrical delivery is usually lacklustre. They perfected their craft in that regard after Reunion.

 

[Brigantium]

They're very 'no frills'. I think the reunion era has the bigger concentration of thoughtful socially conscious themes. But this is themes in addition to the craftsmanship of the lyrics.

 

[mckindog]

Round three is up.
Not nearly as strong a group as the previous two, IMO

 

[soundwave]

I don't see Hallowed as a socially conscious one as such. It touches on a couple of themes that might be, but overall, it's about one character. There's a back story we never quite find out, but it's easy to imagine he's a lifelong fighter or rebel who has killed someone in an act of revenge and then been convicted of murder. That's quite comic book or cinematic in itself.

Yeah, I think Hallowed is firmly in the 'comic book' group and is pretty illustrative of that style for the reasons you mentioned.

My problem with Maiden's approach (mainly on NPFTD and FOTD) is that I find the lyrics are usually overly trite and populist in approach. Politicians suck... The streets aren't safe...children are hungry...Maiden tend to approach those issues in a very direct unsophisticated surface level manner (which is odd, because they are very erudite and sophisticated in other topics). Though I will say that they've been doing a much better job in the reunion era with some of these themes (with the exception of 'Age of Innocence' - those lyrics sound like something my dad would write).

 

[Mosh]

I think the reunion era lyrics have been a bit more personal too. I can't help but feel that a lot of the lyrics on No Prayer and FOTD are a bit contrived.

 

[Forostar]

On No Prayer: I am not saying it is a good thing that the lyrics were done fast (with this quality) but I think they spent less time on them because they wanted to.
I estimate (yes it is an assumption) that the music was formed fast and spontaneous as well. It all sounds very fresh and live and Bruce was busy with Tattooed Millionaire plus tour and might have had less time and/or inspiration either. Even if they had, it would be odd to spend a lot of time time (in comparison) on the lyrics when the rest went pretty fast and when a deadline had to be met. No Prayer isn't a sophisticated album. I'd even go this far that the type of music might not even need a much higher level of (erudite! yuck) lyrics.

Music and production wise, Fear of the Dark might have had a longer and more careful approach. I don't really hear "populist" lyrics on Fear of the Dark. Are e.g. Childhood's End lyrics really this unsophisticated? Or how different are they compared to Blood on the World's Hands?

Not mentioning the reference of the hunger (with an example) might come across as vague or populist(?)
Being more concrete: mentioning the reference (e.g. a name of a person in Holy Smoke) is not good either.

It's pretty difficult to tread a correct path when it comes to these type of lyrics. Perhaps more use of poetry and metaphors is a solution. But what interests me is that when the music sounds rough and unpolished, the lyrics can be too.

 

[soundwave]

I think it's just a preference of mine. Take Tool's "The Pot" - it's a double entendre on American social mores regarding drug use, and the lyrics have a lot of wit and metaphor interwoven through them. Or another approach is Gojira with anything off of "From Mars to Sirius" - touching on environmental destruction as a sci-fi concept album. With Maiden, it's usually straightforward "No food, no love etc..." it's just very, very direct and to the point. That doesn't impact me the same way. As @Mosh said, it feels contrived in places.

Good point on No Prayer - Steve wanted a more stripped down approach so that would make sense that the lyrics followed that (but it just didn't do anything or me).

 

[Forostar]

"No food, no love etc..." it's just very, very direct and to the point.

That's Maiden, especially in this era. But of course I do recognize that they have been different on other songs/albums.

 

[Mosh]

Running Free - Generic deliberately sing-along rebellious lyrics. What they're going for is obvious and it works on that level, but meh.

Another Life - One of the laziest lyrics in the band's catalog. Was probably written a few minutes before going on stage at one of their early gigs.

Lightning Strikes - I almost didn't vote for it because it does a decent job at describing a storm, but that's all there is to it really. It seems like they were trying to go somewhere deeper with it, but any hidden meaning is lost on me.

Quest For Fire - This one is pretty obvious. One of several examples of Maiden taking a historical event and portraying it in a way that is not only boring, but also inaccurate. In the case of this song it's laughable.

Hooks In You - Really silly lyrics that harken back to the pedestrian nature of the early lyrics.

The Edge Of Darkness - I feel like I'm always in the minority with this one, but I think these lyrics are awful. The quoting of the film dialog is sloppy and they don't really enhance the events of the plot the way Rime did.

Nomad - I always found these lyrics a bit goofy. I kinda get what they were going for but it really doesn't work. The vagueness of the lyrics seems more like laziness rather than an attempt at creating a mystery.