Illegal inmigrants in the U.S.

Metal_made

Metal_made

Trooper
Many people from different countries go to the U.S. looking for a job, however, this is a great problems to the americans and to people from all those countries, in Mexico's case, the inmigrants can't find a job anymore because the U.S. it's overpopulated and Mexico can't give them a job either.

Though I don't like the idea that some of my mexican comrades go to the U.S., I understand them, because they need the job,but I don't like it because they often receive a bad treatment, there's a lot of racism.

I would like to know your opinion about this.
 
I've heard all kinds of arguments why illegal immgration has to be stopped - how these immigrants are a drain on the economy, how legitimate taxpayers wind up paying for them etc. While such arguments sometimes have some validity, I don't think they tell the whole story.

We've got a statue in one of our eastern harbors which says something about "give me your tired, your hungry, your poor...." These aren't (or shouldn't be) empty words. The only people who should be barred from entering the USA are persons (like terrorists) with violent or criminal intentions (if they can even be caught). Someone coming here for a job or a better life ought to be allowed in.

If the systems currently in place cannot support illegal immigrants, then the systems need to be changed (as opposed to tossing immigrants out). Yes, that's a very liberal opinion. But then again, I lean so far to the left that I'm almost a socialist.

Regarding racism: sure it exists, but I think it's getting better. I recalling hearing somewhere that Hispanics are now the 2nd-largest ethnic group in America (behind Anglos like me). So we're getting used to a more diverse society. But racism will never be eradicated, simply because of the natural human tendency to fear those who are different. And nearly as sadly, racism can't be reduced quickly; you have to wait for the racists to die, and hope their children grew up differently. I've never heard of a way to make a racist stop being a racist.
 
My two cents:

People in the US illegally should be deported ASAP to make room for the honest immigrants who are willing to follow the proscribed process.
If someone breaks the law the second they enter the country, it doesn't exactly set a good tone for the duration of their stay there. Let the people who abide the law come and build a better life for themselves - take as many of them as will fit without causing huge socio-economic problems, the more the merrier - but make sure the FOLLOW THE RULES when getting there.
 
The USA is a country based on immigration. Where would the country be without English, Irish, Italian or any of the other major contributing countries? the thing seems to be now that people in the USA are very hypocritical. Their forefathers came to America and were welcomed with open arms, now they want to stop a lot of people coming into the country.
I agree that any immigrants coming in must be legal ones, i.e they have applied for immigration and seem fit to live and work in the country. What isn't needed is a lot of people coming into the country to live in slums in the streets.
The WASP majority in the bureaucratic system must realise they need an influx of immigrants into the country but also they must control the population. This is a very sensitive issue and it is hard to say to anybody to leave America and go back to whatever hell-hole they have come from.
 
It is always nice to see a deep, well thought-out and interesting contribution to the discusion [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--].

As for my two cents and a quarter: I don't care anymore, It is getting upset and worked up over nothing, the U.S can't stop people from coming in and thinking they can is stupid. They are putting up a wall A WALL on the border thinking that will stop them. This is to apeace the scared white minority because the government know nothing can really be done about it.
 
This is a very sensitive issue because people get very passionate talking about this subject. I was born in Los Angeles, CA, USA. My parents are both from Mexico and of course I am very proud of my Mexican heritage.

I think that European Americans (whites) are frightened because they see themselves becoming less and less of the majority here in the US. Latinos (Hispanics), or people of Latin American backgrounds, (Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Nicaraguans, Ecuadorians, Colombians, Peruvians, etc.) are now the second largest ethnic group in the US. Latinos have overtaken African Americans (blacks) and are largest minority group in the US.

In the state of California, Latinos account for about 30 % of the population. Latinos have a high birth rate and can quickly increase their numbers in the near future. So I feel that Whites seem frightened because they want to retain control politically and economically from all the other groups that live in the US.

A Little History

The southwestern section of the United States has a large influence of spanish speaking people since the Spanish claimed it during the early 1500's. The problem of illegal immigration to this part of the US has always been an issue since the United States fought and took California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, 3/4 of Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, 1/4 of Kansas, parts of Wyoming and Oklahoma in 1848 from the Republic of Mexico. That being said the Spanish/Mexican culture along with its people have existed in these parts of the US for at least 500 years. Many of the people that come this country from Mexico and other Latin countries come to work and to pursue a better life for themselves and more importantly their children.

Now let's look at the Europeans. Many came to escape religious persecution, oppression from a number of European countries during the 1500's, 1600's, 1700's, 1800's, and 1900's. The Native Americans, which people by mistake call Indians, are the original peoples of North and South America. The Europeans came and just simply took control of their land and disrupted their lives. There is further evidence of this in other parts of the world. Just look at South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Zimbabwe and other places where the Europeans came and told the native people to leave.

Now some people of the US are acting by being against illegal immigration but they should remember that their ancestors came from a far away continent and established their lives here. Now in my opinion this was also illegal immigration of grand proportions because their ancestors almost wiped out an entire race of peoples and cultures and established theirs.
 
Maybe this is only of interest to me, but [a href=\'http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4364698,00.html\' target=\'_blank\']here's an interesting article[/a] from today's Denver newspaper about how politicians are using this issue to gain popularity with white voters who don't like illegal immigrants. As the article points out, they're not really addressing the issue - they're only using to boost their own popularity.
 
I'm not very well informed, but I heard that Arnold Shwartzeneger (Or whatever his last name is), is trying to get latin people out of California. Could someone explain this to me?
 
I believe that illegal immigrants are the backbone to the economy. Think about it. California is the fifth largest economy in the world, and a lot of California's wealth is based in the San Joaquin Valley, which is full of agriculture. Most jobs in the fields of central California have extremely low wages and requires that workers work well over forty hours a week out in the scorching sun. The only people that take those jobs are illegal immigrants because they have no other choice. Anyhow, if all illegal immigrants where to be deported back to their countries, who would take those low paying jobs in the fields? If the agriculture industry comes crashing down, California's economy would drop exponentially. Thats just one example of how illegal immigrants are the backbone to a capitalist economy.

Also, the United States always talks about "liberty" and being a "self-made man", and "equality and justice for ALL", but yet, a huge chunk of the population wants to shut down the borders and deport all the illegal immigrants. A lot of people forget that their ancestors where in fact immigrants to the US (unless they are 100% native americans, but non of them exist because they where all slaughtered).

I'm mexican-american, and yes, both my parents are former illegal immigrants.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Metal_made+Jan 5 2006, 04:33 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Metal_made @ Jan 5 2006, 04:33 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]I'm not very well informed, but I heard that Arnold Shwartzeneger (Or whatever his last name is), is trying to get latin people out of California. Could someone explain this to me?
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Schwarzenegger wants to tighten up "La Migra" (nickname for the border patrol in spanish). But just about every other republican has wanted to do the same, including Bush.

Trying to get Latin people out of California?? Haha. That is impossible. You go to cities like East Los Angeles, or the eastern part of the San Fernando Velly, and the hispanic population (mostly mexican) is easily 80% (and I'm not even exagerating it). My cousin's graduation ceremony was done in spanish for crying out loud.
 
So Europeans can understand how the Southwestern region of the US is so heavily Latino to a region in Europe...think about Catalonia in Spain, the Turks in Germany, the Chinese/Indians/East Asians in England, etc. This region has had Spanish roots since the early 1500's.
 
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]The USA is a country based on immigration. Where would the country be without English, Irish, Italian or any of the other major contributing countries? the thing seems to be now that people in the USA are very hypocritical. Their forefathers came to America and were welcomed with open arms, now they want to stop a lot of people coming into the country.[/quote]

I think that is a common misconception, while true, this is a country based on immigration, but at the time, immigration was needed to settle the vast piece of land west of the Appalatians. Also, workers were needed for factories that were springing up everywhere in a rapidly growing country. Large numbers of immigrants are no longer needed. In the past when immigrants came to the US, they adopted our culture and language, which is hardly the case in present day.
I have absolutly no problem with someone wanting to come to the US as long as they do it legally, I do have a problem with them coming over illegally. They are breaking the law, they should have no rights.

I also find it interesting that most Mexicans want a pourus border with the US, while Mexico has their own border patrol on their southern border, which is known for it's brutality toward illegal immigrants wantiing to come to Mexico.

Put the military on the US border now.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-MexicanBurtReynolds+Jan 18 2006, 08:45 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(MexicanBurtReynolds @ Jan 18 2006, 08:45 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]I also find it interesting that most Mexicans want a pourus border with the US, while Mexico has their own border patrol on their southern border, which is known for it's brutality toward illegal immigrants wantiing to come to Mexico.

Put the military on the US border now.
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Wait a second, the people from the southern countries of Mexico are actually willing to go to the US, and are just using Mexico to pass through so please, first you have to know what is going on before you post. Now, I don't mind reminding you that the US government of those times when the war with Mexico, fought a country that was just starting to be free, a country that had a lot of internal problems , and what did the US do? they took away a HUGE part of MEXICO'S territory, they just took it away, like that. So, I think I don't care if mexicans are "invading" a territory that used to be ours.

You should be as tolerant as SMX who seems to know what's going on.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Metal_made+Jan 18 2006, 09:54 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Metal_made @ Jan 18 2006, 09:54 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] So, I think I don't care if mexicans are "invading" a territory that used to be ours.

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Amen to that! As Cesar Chavez once famously said: "we didn't cross the border, the border crossed us!"
 
While illigal immigration has occured ever since, as Metal_Made put it, the U.S took those territories from Mexico, it is alarming the rate in which it has increased in the past decade. Ironically it is when NAFTA or TLC (for the spanish speakers lol) was implimented supposedly facilitating trade among other things. However it has been very detrimental to Latin America's economic health (no surprise there. thought it was to facilitate trade BOTH WAYS, however when I go to Mexico I see McDonald's, Wal-Mart, along with other american stores and franchises, our supermarkets are full of American products like cereals, chocolates, and the like. However here in the U.S I see that our major export is illegal workers (sadly). I don't see any Mexican or Latin American products outside the "Mexican Food" aisle in the Supermarket, a couple of Mom and Pop stores in the "south side", "Mexican side" or Hispanic side" of town and that it is. What else is being imported from Latin America? Nothing, like always we are just being exploited for our cheap labor (go into a department store and see where all their clothes are made: Honduras, Guatemala, Mexico, Brazil etc. )
 
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Wait a second, the people from the southern countries of Mexico are actually willing to go to the US, and are just using Mexico to pass through so please, first you have to know what is going on before you post. Now, I don't mind reminding you that the US government of those times when the war with Mexico, fought a country that was just starting to be free, a country that had a lot of internal problems , and what did the US do? they took away a HUGE part of MEXICO'S territory, they just took it away, like that. So, I think I don't care if mexicans are "invading" a territory that used to be ours.[/quote]

I'll be 100% honest with you, of all the arguments I've ever heard about illegal immigration, I've never heard of the "taking back our territory" argument before. I kind of like that one. Look, I've got absolutly no problem with Mexican/Mexican Americans, their values closely resemble mine, 1. Catholic 2. Extremely hard workers, good work ethic, and 3. Strong family values. I just think that if you want to come, do it legally.
Not a flame, but a question, but if it was Mexico's long-term goal to repopulate the SW US, why didn't you just invade Texas in 1865, right after the Civil War?
 
wow. really serious topic for a metal forum. What i want to know is why all the negative attitude to illegal immigration. theyre not hurting anyone. Their just looking for a better life. the thing that really pisses me off is the 'they took my job' attitude. If you lost your job its your own fault so dont have a cry to the immigrants.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-MexicanBurtReynolds+Jan 20 2006, 04:38 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(MexicanBurtReynolds @ Jan 20 2006, 04:38 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Not a flame, but a question, but if it was Mexico's long-term goal to repopulate the SW US, why didn't you just invade Texas in 1865, right after the Civil War?
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Mexico was involved in a war against the French from 1862-67.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-MexicanBurtReynolds+Jan 19 2006, 11:38 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(MexicanBurtReynolds @ Jan 19 2006, 11:38 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Not a flame, but a question, but if it was Mexico's long-term goal to repopulate the SW US, why didn't you just invade Texas in 1865, right after the Civil War?
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Well, apart from what LC said, I must be honest with you aswell, because Mexico could never win a war against the U.S.
 
Besides, 1865? The military might of the US was such that it was, at the time, the largest and most powerful army in the world, with over a million soldiers in uniform, plus a gigantic navy.
 
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