GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!

[The Flash]

Voting for the first time in ages.

Be'Lakor - They win by default for not being incredibly cheesy.
Darkthrone - Black metal classic versus a forgettable Megadeth album is an easy decision.
Entombed - I prefer Left Hand Path, though this one is a fun listen also. Alter Bridge don't do anything for me.
Judas Priest - Win by default due to NIN not really being metal, though I prefer Sin After Sin regardless.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Be'Lakor might be my favorite find of this game. This stuff rules. Ratt cannot compare.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I really fucking don't want to vote for this crappy Megadeth album but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I have to cause Darkthrone is such shit.

Alter Bridge do literally nothing for me. They are pleasant. But I'll take elevator hard rock over tough guy deathcore singing about Wolverine.

Judas Priest, easily. I like NIN, but Sin After Sin is awesome.

 

[karljant]

Mike Muir and Deathcore... errrr... ok.

 

[DJ James]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I have to cause Darkthrone is such shit.

I'll take elevator hard rock over tough guy deathcore singing about Wolverine.

I do not wish to attack anyone based on their musical taste anymore. I do not wish to attack anyone based on their musical taste anymore. I do not wish to attack anyone based on their musical taste anymore. I do not wish to-

 

[Diesel 11]

But I'll take elevator hard rock over tough guy deathcore singing about Wolverine.

Just to be clear though: “Wolverine Blues” isn’t about the Marvel character; the music video only includes him because management figured it’d sell better.

 

[Mosh]

The first two Entombed albums are classic, but once they got into the whole “death and roll” thing it was a major fall from grace. Hard to believe it’s the same band.

 

[Cornfed Hick]

cheese

incredibly cheesy

I don't get this. Compared to many of the bands in this game, including early 80s releases by Judas Priest, Ratt is not even remotely cheesy. It's straight-down-the-fairway Sunset Strip sleaze metal of the sort that Guns 'n' Roses (quite effectively) copied a few years later. I'm old enough to remember when this was released. Later unfairly lumped in with the hair-metal power balladeers, Ratt convincingly kicked ass at the time. Plus, you get a young Tawny Kitaen on the cover and Uncle Miltie in the video -- what's not to like?! Bonus point: no Cookie Monster death growls.

P.S. When I saw Pantera beat Deep Purple's legendary In Rock (which did almost as much to invent heavy metal as Black Sabbath did) and Bathory beat Van Halen's legendary Fair Warning, I came to a sad realization: I think I am now officially too old for this forum.
Kids today...grumble grumble...youth is wasted on the young...get off my lawn!

 

[karljant]

The first two Entombed albums are classic, but once they got into the whole “death and roll” thing it was a major fall from grace. Hard to believe it’s the same band.

3 amazing albums. And the three of them really different from each other (yes... even Clandestine and Left Hand Path).

Just to be clear though: “Wolverine Blues” isn’t about the Marvel character; the music video only includes him because management figured it’d sell better.

Correct. There was even a version that was issued without the band's permission by earache records featuring the character in the front cover alongside a comic, with missing tracks and without samples. One of the first of many jerk moves by Earache records.

 

[karljant]

When I saw Pantera beat Deep Purple's legendary In Rock (which did almost as much to invent heavy metal as Black Sabbath did)

Like it or not Cowboys From Hell is also legendary and this is coming from a huge In Rock fan (amazing record). And Purple did as much as Sabbath (or even more) to invent Hard Rock and contributed to heavy music. But INVENT Metal? Sabbath invented Metal, period. Either being Heavy Metal (Paranoid, Hole In The Sky, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Killing Yourself To Live, Children Of The Grave), Doom (Black Sabbath, Iron Man, Electric Funeral, A National Acrobat), Stoner (Sweet leaf, NIB, Lord Of This World) and to a certain extent even sown the first seeds for Thrash/ Speed (Symptom Of The Universe) and Goth Metal (Snowblind). The vast majority of Metal Bands formed today still base their sound entirely on Iommi's riffing principles.

Bathory beat Van Halen's legendary Fair Warning,

While Eddie's guitar playing is an absolute game changer, and a phenom to be praised (even for non enthusiasts or even casuals like me who only like a couple of records - their debut is simply excellent), Bathory had absolutely the same effect: in little more than 5 years one guy almost single handed invented Black Metal and Viking Metal.

I came to a sad realization: I think I am now officially too old for this forum.

If this applies to Pantera vs Deep Purple case, I'm sure you're aware that less than 6 years separate Bathory and Van Halen's debut (let's be honest... that's not much time). And the "age factor" IMO only applies strongly if you were a fan when such record came out, if you were immersed in the buzz it made when it hit the scene.

Furthermore Van Halen and Deep Purple are two Hard Rock bands, not Metal per se. And some people tend to take that in account. Just check my comment on The Downward Spiral vs Sin After Sin match. The record I like the most of these two great and iconic albums is TDS but it's not what I consider to be metal and that weighed a lot on my judgement and I ended up choosing Priest. And although it didn't weighed nearly as much with In Rock and Fair Warning it had its influence. I love Blood Fire Death way more than Fair Warning and would always vote for it, while picking Cowboys From Hell was a much more difficult choice.

 

[Jer]

I don't get this. Compared to many of the bands in this game, including early 80s releases by Judas Priest, Ratt is not even remotely cheesy. It's straight-down-the-fairway Sunset Strip sleaze metal of the sort that Guns 'n' Roses (quite effectively) copied a few years later.

This, mostly. It certainly wasn’t considered cheesy in its time by metal fans, and it’s no more cheesy than any of its immediate peers in hindsight.

By the way, in what universe are death vocals not considered cheesy in their own right? They’re cheap, unpleasant, and blatantly inauthentic, so they check all the dictionary definition boxes for cheesiness. I don’t see how grown adults trying to sound “scary” by emulating the absurd vocals of a character from a children’s TV show while writing 7th grade gorefest lyrics is any less ridiculous than adult men with big hair singing about their supposed male prowess, or dudes with unnaturally high voices singing in multi-part harmony.

Hate to break it to you folks, but pretty much all metal has some cheesiness to it, be it from the imagery, fashion, or types of sounds in play. It’s just part of the package.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

I don't get this. Compared to many of the bands in this game, including early 80s releases by Judas Priest, Ratt is not even remotely cheesy. It's straight-down-the-fairway Sunset Strip sleaze metal of the sort that Guns 'n' Roses (quite effectively) copied a few years later. I'm old enough to remember when this was released. Later unfairly lumped in with the hair-metal power balladeers, Ratt convincingly kicked ass at the time. Plus, you get a young Tawny Kitaen on the cover and Uncle Miltie in the video -- what's not to like?! Bonus point: no Cookie Monster death growls.

P.S. When I saw Pantera beat Deep Purple's legendary In Rock (which did almost as much to invent heavy metal as Black Sabbath did) and Bathory beat Van Halen's legendary Fair Warning, I came to a sad realization: I think I am now officially too old for this forum.
Kids today...grumble grumble...youth is wasted on the young...get off my lawn!

It's not the age. When I discovered Maiden they had 11 or 12 albums under the belt and were long past heyday, per media and general public opinion. If I were totally true to my generation I would've listened to Korn.

These American bands aren't that popular elsewhere because they did not tour elsewhere. It is as simple as that, they did not build the following. On Wikipedia it is visible that Ratt played a handful of shows in Europe in their entire career. This connects bands from 70's glam rock/hard rock and the later hair metal scene. Their primary audience was North America, followed by Japan. Everything else was sporadic.

 

[karljant]

Hate to break it to you folks, but pretty much all metal has some cheesiness to it, be it from the imagery, fashion, or types of sounds in play. It’s just part of the package.

Fact. I agree but not quite regarding the reasons you presented. Nevertheless I think the majority of metal has a good amount of cheese in it (death vocals and glam included). Although there's levels to this ( like *cof* Manowar *cof*).

 

[Deleted member 7164]

But INVENT Metal? Sabbath invented Metal, period.

I can stress here that Purple was looking in direction of Sabbath and Zeppelin prior to recording In Rock, therefore the riffs and the energy and the metal itself was inspired by their peers, so they can't be the inventors of it.

Purple added massive virtuosity to the mix.

 

[Diesel 11]

They’re cheap

No. They are hard to master and hard to do without killing your throat and clean singing voice. Cheap is hardly the word for them.

unpleasant

To you.

and blatantly inauthentic

No? What the hell do you define as “authentic”? Your personal taste does not equal objective fact.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

It certainly wasn’t considered cheesy in its time by metal fans, and it’s no more cheesy than any of its immediate peers in hindsight.

Cheese or not, Out of the Cellar as an album is not exactly heavy metal by 1984 standards, it's between hard rock and that. I believe I had heard the term "hard and heavy" applied to this sort of a music. It is a league below in heaviness compared to Defenders and two leagues below Powerslave, Ride the Lightning.

Try to put yourself in the position of a classic metal fan that never listened to these bands, let alone seen them live. Do you really think Ratt has that much to offer as compared to top 1984 metal releases?

 

[karljant]

They are hard to master and hard to do without killing your throat and clean singing voice. Cheap is hardly the word for them.

True. It takes training and technique as any other singing style. And by technique I mean techniques since there's a myriad of tricks and ways to pull various types of screams, growls and roaring.

No? What the hell do you define as “authentic”. Your personal taste does not equal objective fact.

Here I must agree but not in the way the question is made. Growls are indeed "inauthentic" since they're voice modulations in order to reach lower and more distorted notes than your average voice range. BUT so is falsetto since it's the same but on higher pitches with often cleaner timbre. Or Baso. Or Throat Singing. And I know a ton of people who HATE falsetto vocals. So it is what it is: many of my favorite singers don't use their "authentic" vocal range (and I like both falsetto, growling, throat singing, baso... etc) and I'm sure many of @Jer 's don't do it either. The only difference is he thinks growlers are not singers and that's @Jer's problem, not theirs.

 

[Jer]

No. They are hard to master and hard to do without killing your throat and clean singing voice. Cheap is hardly the word for them.

Anyone can grunt and growl. Does it take skill to do it regularly in a way that doesn’t ruin your voice? Sure, probably. Are there special growling timbres and weird techniques and things that death vox fans can geek out over? Sure, probably. But it’s objectively easier to make some kind of growl than to hit a clean tone on the right note.

[Unpleasant] to you.

And to most people. Imagine a non-metal fan trying to take that stuff seriously. Be honest with yourself on that one, you already know the real answer.

And that unpleasant approach is on purpose, in case you haven’t figured that out yet. Same with the gorefest lyrics that many of those bands employ — they’re going for shock value. Extremity. It’s right there in the genre name.

What the hell do you define as “authentic”?

I think @karljant ’s answer summed it up pretty well. Extreme vocal delivery is by definition unnatural and forced. If it were anything close to natural it would no longer be “extreme”, would it?

Inauthentic isn’t automatically bad. Men in their 60s running around in tights in front of occult imagery while singing songs based on classic literature isn’t exactly authentic either. It’s intentional theatrics, and if you enjoy the theatrics, then what’s the harm? But it doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a bit cheesy.

You’re so busy being butthurt over someone pointing out the cheesiness of your beloved death burps that you missed the fact that I was pointing out that all metal is a bit cheesy, which obviously includes all the stuff I like, too. No need to puff up your plumage.

 

[Jer]

The only difference is he thinks growlers are not singers and that's @Jer's problem, not theirs.

Singing by definition includes melody. Look it up. Growlers aren’t singing when they’re growling. Rappers aren’t singing when they’re rapping. That doesn’t mean that what they’re doing doesn’t require any skill or doesn’t have any value, but it does mean that it’s not singing. That’s not an opinion.

 

[Jer]

Try to put yourself in the position of a classic metal fan that never listened to these bands, let alone seen them live. Do you really think Ratt has that much to offer as compared to top 1984 metal releases?

I also nominated Ride The Lightning and Powerslave for the GMAC, so we’re not on totally different pages here. 1984 was a really strong year. Tooth And Nail came out that year too.

To answer your question, I’d say Out Of The Cellar is about a half step down from those top-tier albums because it’s a little simpler. I like it better than Defenders Of The Faith because it’s more consistent than that album, but I don’t like it quite as much as the Metallica, Maiden, and Dokken albums from the same year. The rhythm and lead work are fantastic, the vocal lines are great, and the songwriting vascillates between strong and great. The lyrics are a bit silly in places, for sure. But yes, I think that anyone who gives it a fair listen should hear its value.

 

[Diesel 11]

You’re so busy being butthurt over someone pointing out the cheesiness of your beloved death burps that you missed the fact that I was pointing out that all metal is a bit cheesy, which obviously includes all the stuff I like, too. No need to puff up your plumage.

Jer. My dude. You have always been so full of yourself it’s hard to take you seriously. 50% of your posts are ego, 49% are lame and unfunny jokes, and 1% are actually beneficial and well constructed music takes. I still enjoy reading your song reviews, but I don’t enjoy hearing you go off about dog farts or constantly belittle opinions that don’t match with your own. I know I’ve made those mistakes before too, but I’ve worked a lot to move past that and I’m still continually trying to improve myself with each passing day, hence why I’m not yelling at you in all caps in this post. What doesn’t bother me is your opinion, it’s the way you treat your opinion as fact.

When I say I like a chorus in a certain song more than other choruses in other songs, I don’t need someone to tell me that it’s just because I’m young and fanboying and one day I’ll like something else. So? I can enjoy what I enjoy can’t I? And I’ve said before and I’ll say it again: I’m not even a big fan of harsh vocals because it’s harder to glean differences between songs. I literally would have no issue if all you said was “I hate these kinds of vocals, they do nothing for me”. But you keep treating them as if they’re objectively worse, which I take issue with, because from my personal experience they are much more difficult to master, and even though I don’t care too much for death metal bands, I respect the vocals a lot. I know you don’t, and that’s fine, but you constantly go off as if your opinion is the only one that matters and then get — to use your own vocabulary — butthurt when a lot of people disagree.

Anyone can grunt and growl? Well everyone can also sing cleanly, but I would hate to have to listen to most of those people. It’s the same thing with growls — when you hear bad growlers it’s pretty terrible but when you hear good ones it’s quite nice. To me. To you all of them are bad, which is fine, but that’s just like... your opinion.

And also — they’re bad to a lot of people? Who cares about a lot of people? A lot of people got Donald Trump elected and I think that speaks for itself. A lot of people like to listen to mumble rap which I don’t particularly care for in the slightest. Good for them — but just because a lot of people like something doesn’t make it objective fact. That’s what I take issue with. And you can call me butthurt all day long but that doesn’t make it an objective fact, either.