I regret that not. We're on a timeframe that has been extremely strict the entire tournament, I only extended over Christmas day.
GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!
- Thread starter LooseCannon
- Start date
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Well many studies can be made on many matters but nonetheless it's subjective because different people ring with different audiences. It's a question of synchronicity. It varies: if you shift the audience what's charismatic for group X may sound awful to group Y. There are many cases of quiet frontmen that are absolutely low profile and their fan base love it and find it charismatic. And the opposite is also true (as well as every behavior in between). If you don't like Owens' presence, fine. Just don't make it a universal truth. As for the fact that he was replaced yeah... but he got the jobs and keeps on getting them. I'm not even a IE fan: after the first records the only time I listened to Iced Earth was precisely just to listen to Owens' performance. I think it was great but the music (with the exception of Gettysburg and 10000 Strong) was absolutely mundane ( as I think the majority of IE's records are). So as you can see motivations vary.
Did he? When was he invited to play with other great names in metal? Anything else than Pyramize? I'm simply unaware of his choices.
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Ah, so don’t do what you’ve been doing this entire time?
I'm giving you observations based on my experience, not my preference. For example, I absolutely hate In Flames and their singer, but I've seen them multiple times as a support act and on festivals, and I can't deny that the singer had presence and knew what to do with a crowd. Owens simply didn't on the two occasions I saw him, and it wasn't a matter of the audiences disliking him by default. He had the aura of a used car salesman, trying too hard to please and doing too little at the same time. The crowd was dead. There was more positive reaction to when Schaffer was singing than to Owens. He put on a good performance as a singer, but he did not as a front man.
Or, in other words,
If he doesn't ring with the audience that is there to see him, what audience is he going to ring with?
Barlow retired from music to become a policeman. He did not make himself available to the market. He took the gig with Pyramaze because they were bold to contact him and convinced him it fits with his schedule. At the time, the general belief was that he would never return to music.
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Once again I'll repeat:
Technique, Range Timbre = factual measurable attributes.
Charisma and personality = subjective attributes that vary from person to person (i.e. : lots of people think Manowar are quite charismatic and have strong personality. Many others think they're clowns).
So no. It's not what I've been doing this entire time.
It's absolutely fine you preferring Barlow to Owens. Measuring "charisma" or "personality" is a different (and erroneous) thing.
Ariana
Black-and-white leopard
Are you sure you know what charisma means? Because it's not the same as flamboyance. Being quiet or low profile does in no way negate charisma and personality.
NB: This is a rhetorical question since you have already said bye.
Spambot
Meme Lord
Overture
As overtures go, I guess this one serves its purpose. I could discern all the songs that follow while still being cohesive. I've got to admit I love the "fantasy" element of it although it is quite obvious, being the overture, this one couldn't stand on its own. More so, since this is imagined as symphonic instrumental piece, I feel that Portnoy at certain points drags down the whole song a bit. Not a much to write about it really, especially when you know it trails path for the next one.
About to Crash
If somebody told me that one day I would feel great listening to a song about a girl having a depression and/or bipolar disorder - I'd call him an idiot. But alas, that is what happened. Although the theme is really tragic, that first part is so upbeat and just dances with joy, I can't help but I enjoy myself. Every time Jordan starts the song, it's not like I'm listening to a song - it's like I'm embarking on a journey. Just listen to that transition at 1:50 - if that isn't one of more positive DT composition than I don't know which ones are. And again, I don't know a thing or two about drumming, but Portnoy just makes it sound so fun on this track.
War Inside My Head
I once said that there's something for everybody on Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence and I still stand behind that statement. I mean, the previous track was this good-feeling rock song and a couple of moments later you're listening to heavy metal track with sinister synth. Granted, I admit it sounds a bit cheesy and they have done much better "metal" tracks. Still it's a pity it lasts for only 2 minutes.
The Test That Stumped Them All
Same as previous one, although I wish those vocal harmonies were omitted. I realise they tried to portrait different characters within the same song but to me they ended up gimmicky and look like Dream Theater parodied themselves within a mammoth of a song. Did I mention before how awesome Petrucci is? No? John Petrucci is awesome. Guy makes me want to pick up a guitar after not playing for like 5-6 years. But I realise how frustrated I'd be if I tried to recreate anything that he plays, so I'm just gonna keep my guitar away.
Goodnight Kiss
Here it comes: right-in-the-feels duo. Listen, I can sit down and I could dissect this one for hours and write a thesis on each part how cheesy it is. I see it clearly for what it is: each cliche checked, each low blow recognized. But damn man... I'd lie if I said I don't get overwhelmed each and every time I listen to Goodnight Kiss. Actually, I get so overwhelmed that sometimes I skip that later part in the song because it's just.... Too much. IDK, maybe it's due to the fact that I'm a parent and once you introduce new human being into this world, not only that your priorities turn inside out, your whole character does the same. A couple of years ago, I believe I would skim over this one and probably wouldn't ever look back. Now, I don't know which hits me harder: LaBrie's delivery, that chorus, Petrucci's solo, the lyrics, the mood that Jordan sets in the background or the whole thing together. Definitely that later part when you hear those sounds from the hospital and mother wailing. The only thing that gets me through it (except Petrucci solo) is an excellent Jordan's transition introducing the next song.
Oh, and for those who said DT or LaBrie lacks feeling, go and see/listen this two songs on Score. If you say it doesn't have a feel or whatsoever you deserve the extension -bot more than I do!!!
Solitary Shell
Same as previous one, I can see all the cheesefest that is happening within it, yet, I find it beautiful. Yes, even the solo on acoustic guitar. The theme again is a grim one, but just like About to Crash the song has this unique good-feel vibe all around it. I've probably understood it wrong, but I caught a sense this one is being mocked a lot in DT community and I honestly don't know why. I mean, I get that it's pop-y but Dream Theater have done several of those and it's quality didn't even came close to Solitary Shell.
About to Crash (Reprise)
That first riff (and the sound of it) is so Van Halen (and I love EVH) so that's a big thumb up from me. Unfortunately, this is one of the times where LaBrie just bit much more than he can chew. I don't have the knowledge of technical terms, so I can't tell you what seems wrong to me with LaBrie on that one, but something just sounds off. Anyway, I think this would also be a good way to end the second disc, bringing this whole concept to a full circle and end it.
Losing Time/Grand Finale
There is nothing wrong with this one actually, I could just never got into it. Maybe if it was placed somewhere else on the album. Especially that first part since it portrays a sixth character and it got tangled with the finale, while that first character got two songs. Nothing wrong musically, just kind of off mathematically. I mean the finale is bloated as every finale should be, but overall it a nice wrap up to the whole album.
So there it is.
I've just read every post I wrote about this album I can't discern did I praise it enough or did I critized it enough and I'm fine with that.
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is a colorful bunch and represents everything I like and everything I dislike in Dream Theater.
And I repeat again, if every member on this board took time and listened to this one properly, I guarantee everyone would find at least one bit of song that he/she would like.
As overtures go, I guess this one serves its purpose. I could discern all the songs that follow while still being cohesive. I've got to admit I love the "fantasy" element of it although it is quite obvious, being the overture, this one couldn't stand on its own. More so, since this is imagined as symphonic instrumental piece, I feel that Portnoy at certain points drags down the whole song a bit. Not a much to write about it really, especially when you know it trails path for the next one.
About to Crash
If somebody told me that one day I would feel great listening to a song about a girl having a depression and/or bipolar disorder - I'd call him an idiot. But alas, that is what happened. Although the theme is really tragic, that first part is so upbeat and just dances with joy, I can't help but I enjoy myself. Every time Jordan starts the song, it's not like I'm listening to a song - it's like I'm embarking on a journey. Just listen to that transition at 1:50 - if that isn't one of more positive DT composition than I don't know which ones are. And again, I don't know a thing or two about drumming, but Portnoy just makes it sound so fun on this track.
War Inside My Head
I once said that there's something for everybody on Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence and I still stand behind that statement. I mean, the previous track was this good-feeling rock song and a couple of moments later you're listening to heavy metal track with sinister synth. Granted, I admit it sounds a bit cheesy and they have done much better "metal" tracks. Still it's a pity it lasts for only 2 minutes.
The Test That Stumped Them All
Same as previous one, although I wish those vocal harmonies were omitted. I realise they tried to portrait different characters within the same song but to me they ended up gimmicky and look like Dream Theater parodied themselves within a mammoth of a song. Did I mention before how awesome Petrucci is? No? John Petrucci is awesome. Guy makes me want to pick up a guitar after not playing for like 5-6 years. But I realise how frustrated I'd be if I tried to recreate anything that he plays, so I'm just gonna keep my guitar away.
Goodnight Kiss
Here it comes: right-in-the-feels duo. Listen, I can sit down and I could dissect this one for hours and write a thesis on each part how cheesy it is. I see it clearly for what it is: each cliche checked, each low blow recognized. But damn man... I'd lie if I said I don't get overwhelmed each and every time I listen to Goodnight Kiss. Actually, I get so overwhelmed that sometimes I skip that later part in the song because it's just.... Too much. IDK, maybe it's due to the fact that I'm a parent and once you introduce new human being into this world, not only that your priorities turn inside out, your whole character does the same. A couple of years ago, I believe I would skim over this one and probably wouldn't ever look back. Now, I don't know which hits me harder: LaBrie's delivery, that chorus, Petrucci's solo, the lyrics, the mood that Jordan sets in the background or the whole thing together. Definitely that later part when you hear those sounds from the hospital and mother wailing. The only thing that gets me through it (except Petrucci solo) is an excellent Jordan's transition introducing the next song.
Oh, and for those who said DT or LaBrie lacks feeling, go and see/listen this two songs on Score. If you say it doesn't have a feel or whatsoever you deserve the extension -bot more than I do!!!
Solitary Shell
Same as previous one, I can see all the cheesefest that is happening within it, yet, I find it beautiful. Yes, even the solo on acoustic guitar. The theme again is a grim one, but just like About to Crash the song has this unique good-feel vibe all around it. I've probably understood it wrong, but I caught a sense this one is being mocked a lot in DT community and I honestly don't know why. I mean, I get that it's pop-y but Dream Theater have done several of those and it's quality didn't even came close to Solitary Shell.
About to Crash (Reprise)
That first riff (and the sound of it) is so Van Halen (and I love EVH) so that's a big thumb up from me. Unfortunately, this is one of the times where LaBrie just bit much more than he can chew. I don't have the knowledge of technical terms, so I can't tell you what seems wrong to me with LaBrie on that one, but something just sounds off. Anyway, I think this would also be a good way to end the second disc, bringing this whole concept to a full circle and end it.
Losing Time/Grand Finale
There is nothing wrong with this one actually, I could just never got into it. Maybe if it was placed somewhere else on the album. Especially that first part since it portrays a sixth character and it got tangled with the finale, while that first character got two songs. Nothing wrong musically, just kind of off mathematically. I mean the finale is bloated as every finale should be, but overall it a nice wrap up to the whole album.
So there it is.
I've just read every post I wrote about this album I can't discern did I praise it enough or did I critized it enough and I'm fine with that.
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is a colorful bunch and represents everything I like and everything I dislike in Dream Theater.
And I repeat again, if every member on this board took time and listened to this one properly, I guarantee everyone would find at least one bit of song that he/she would like.
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Well there are many documented concerts where the audience is ringing with him. So as I said: different people = different interactions
After joining the police dpt Barlow had other contributions besides Pyramaze: Ashes Of Ares, the project with Barlow. Curiously enough none of them features a great metal name. I mean come on...it doesn't have to be a BAND: just a contribution in a song or something (like Ripper made countless times). So once again it may as well be his choice or it may as well be lack of interest on others contacting him. One can never know. In the case of Owens, interest on working with him never ceases to appear from various directions of the metal spectre.
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karljant
Ancient Mariner
Timbre and technique? Abigail by King Diamond in full open lung screeching mode. Or the absolute vocal workshop that are Cathedral Spires and Jugulator. Or even the 2 first parts of Gettysburg. I won't even name others. This isn't god given... it's technique.
Saapanael
Ancient Mariner
That’s where you’re wrong.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Firstly: we shouldn’t be defining singers based on the quantity of their work, but the quality of their voice.
Secondly, if we are gonna be petty and use that argument then let’s go. Barlow, since becoming a police officer, has only worked with the following:
- Pyramaze
- Iced Earth
- Ashes of Ares
- First State Force Band
- We Are Sentinels
- Artizan
- Demons & Wizards (live)
- Iced Earth
- Ashes of Ares
- First State Force Band
- We Are Sentinels
- Artizan
- Demons & Wizards (live)
I don’t have the time to list Ripper’s stuff. Here’s a link.
Ripper’s job is singing. Barlow’s primary work is his job with the police. Singing is just a hobby for him at this point. Due to his police commitments, everything has to work around his schedule, not other bands. Therefore if you want to work with Barlow you have to be willing to put up with his schedule, and he has to be passionate enough about a project to work that into his schedule. No he doesn’t have a lot of big name acts he plays with, but he does have smaller acts that he’s passionate about that he sings for.
Ripper is just a shill, he’ll sing for anything. That’s not a bad thing, unless you’re using it for your argument. Well guess what — I’m reclaiming your argument. Everyone seems to want to work with Ripper at first, until you realize that no one wants to continue working with him. He’s been shuffled around from band to band so often I’m shocked he even knows what he’s playing for now. So yeah, this argument is bullshit but if we’re gonna stoop to that level, well there’s your FACTS and LOGIC.
What? I asked you to tell me how his timber and technique are so much better than Barlow’s and all you gave me are a few songs that you think he sounds good on? Dude, I’ve already heard this shit and I came to my own conclusions a long time ago. I want to hear your perspective through your FACTS and you’re just giving me homework? Please. If that’s all I have to go off of, then yeah, this debate is over because Barlow won.
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Seems like you didn't understand my points. If you don't understand the techniques involved in those songs (among many others) it's your problem. If you think Barlow's contributions (not bands) cannot be compared with Ripper's because he's a policeman that's your problem. If you don't understand that Ripper has great relationships and is regarded as a great singer among metal's elite it's also your problem. If you think this is all BS guess what... that's also your problem. And surely I have nothing to do with it or any will of extending any longer this sterile discussion.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
I’m a communist. Fuck elites.
I gave my argument for why I think Barlow is a better singer. I broke down instances that I feel highlight Ripper’s weaknesses. And I asked you to explain why you said I was wrong, to explain why his technique and timber are so much better than Barlow’s. YOU brought that up, and I would hope that YOU could not only enlighten me, but also be able to defend your position. Instead you have labeled me and everyone else as not adhering to facts, just talking opinions (on a forum!!!), and when pressed just threw out songs for me to go listen to. And now apparently it’s because I’m too fucking stupid to comprehend this shit? You didn’t even TRY to explain ANYTHING, so how am I supposed to understand it then??????
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Good for you.
If you don't understand it by now... what can I say? I can't help you.
P.S. : Just as a side note... the only thing I dislike on Ripper's artistic career is his composing. Really meh. If anyone is interested to check his own bands here they are. Great singing but really subpar stuff. Hey... some of you may like it.
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Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
“By now”? Again, if you’re not going to put in the effort to explain it then there’s no way anyone is gonna understand it. So stop being high and mighty and either explain the FACTS that you’re so hung up on or go jerk yourself off over something else. Stop insinuating that I’m just too stupid to understand your stances on this issue. I’m not some dumbass motherfucking kid who just doesn’t understand things cuz I got into metal decades after you did. I gave my stance, I unpacked it, and all you did is shit on it and react with laughing emojis. So goddammit, I’m not the fool here, motherfucker. No I don’t understand it by now, how the fuck am I able to when you don’t explain it?
If anyone else wants to explain why Ripper’s technique and timber is so much better than Barlow’s, without just spouting up nonsense you’re unwilling to unpack, please let me know but I am GENUINELY curious. I just don’t want to discuss this shit with a literal brick wall. I’ve gotten enough of that talking to Trump supporters. Fucking hell.
