GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!

Clockwork Angels is fine, and I mostly treat Hemispheres as an EP, because I almost always skip Cygnus and go straight to the tracks on Side 2. But each track on Side 2 is better than anything on Clockwork Angels, and Hemispheres gets my vote in part because the sound quality of the Clockwork Angels CD is so horrible, it's pretty much unlistenable. I bought it, endured it a handful of times, and was so disgusted by how bad it sounded (the compression and clipping) that I've never felt a desire to go back. Really a waste, because it otherwise could have been a brilliant return to form.

EDIT: Also, of course I'm voting for my nominee, I will never vote for Blaze, and I recorded my first own-goal of this tournament by accidentally voting for Amon Amarth instead of Amorphis as I intended. I don't care much about either, so no biggie.
 
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@Diesel 11

I think LaBrie has areas where he would fit a song better than Russell would (e.g. the big stereotypical outro-choruses of most DT epics), but otherwise it’s Russell anytime, anywhere for me. The guy just nails it on everything I’ve ever heard him sing on. He obviously has a lot of similarities to Dio, but the music that Symphony X plays is far beyond the classic rock of Dio’s music in my book. I think the first time I really heard Dio in Russell’s voice was when I was zoning out listening to Bastards of the Machine from Iconoclast (solid album but one of my least favorites by them), and the verses are just Dioriffic; they’re like a Diorama (ok I’ll stop).

Lyrically, I prefer concepts about life and experiences and stuff like that, so mythology and war (and the tuff-guy metal lyrics of Symphony X’s later, more inferior work) isn’t my thing. “We are strong! We will stand and fight!” That band needs a real lyricist. To me, Dream Theater (Petrucci in particular, excluding the count song) are far more my lyrical tastes. Not Portnoy’s stuff, though. His lyrics take Romeo’s and Russell’s to a whole other level...
 
Blood & Belief is my favorite Blaze album and I'd like to see it do well, but, if I'm being honest with myself, I still prefer Dance of Death. :S
 
Clockwork Angels is a great album but is the play classics thing is lame. We’re not talking about middle of the road 70s Rush here but possibly the band at its peak. Clockwork Angels is heavier though that is for sure.

I find the symphony x vs dream theater thing a little goofy because they’re very different bands. Once you get past the fact that they both have prog tendencies and feature virtuosic musicians, the similarities end. The approach to epics is very different. Dream Theater does a bit more of a balance between instrumental and vocal parts and go for composed instrumental sections with lots of unisons and harmonies more than soloing. Symphony X does a lot of soloing and mostly only really breaks it up with orchestral sections. They also tend to lean more on the instrumental side (Divine Wings is mostly instrumental).

On that note, Symphony X definitely has more of an orchestral influence to their music. Dream Theater experiments with this occasionally but it’s not a cornerstone of their sound. Also, SX takes a lot more influence from classical composers whereas DT is more on the film score side of things.

As far as influences in the rock realm go, the two bands couldn’t be more different. Symphony X has a lot of power metal flavor. Michael Romeo is an obvious Yngwie descendent and they have often have that fast tempo with big hallelujah choruses trait that is characteristic of power metal. Allen is much more of a typical metal singer as well. DT on the other hand is definitely more of a traditional hard rock and metal influence. Bands like Maiden, Metallica, Rush, etc. Petrucci also seems more influenced by the guitarists from those bands plus Steve Morse. Even within the prog realm, I hear a lot of Yes and Genesis in DT but for Symphony X I hear more bands like Kansas and ELP.

There are two things that typically put DT over the edge for me. The first is balance among the instrumentalists. Symphony X has really turned into the Allen and Romeo show, and even in their glory days the other instruments weren’t that more musically prominent, they were just more audible in the mix. While I concede that JLB is a weaker vocalist than Allen, I prefer every other musician in DT to their counterpart in SX. The songs just feel more well rounded and it feels like everyone is playing to their strengths. The Petrucci/Rudess/Portnoy chemistry is legendary and unmatched.

The other thing, and this is going to make people upset, is that SX is kinda formulaic. The riffing style, the song structures, Romeo’s playing, they’re really good at what they do but there’s not a lot of variety to it. Sometimes I find their songs blend together, especially the short rockers. But even the ballads, as enjoyable as they are, have a lot of recycled material. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, I obvious enjoy SX immensely, but I give DT major credit for constantly varying their sound and doing new things. Look no further than Six Degrees, where each song is a unique experience.
 
Mosh said:
The other thing, and this is going to make people upset, is that SX is kinda formulaic. The riffing style, the song structures, Romeo’s playing, they’re really good at what they do but there’s not a lot of variety to it. Sometimes I find their songs blend together, especially the short rockers. But even the ballads, as enjoyable as they are, have a lot of recycled material.
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This is definitely true, Symphony X do the same thing quite a lot (Of Sins And Shadows vs Inferno for instance). But at least in their golden age, their formulaic nature never impeded them from adding some new element that made the songs stand out and kick ass all over again.

Also, and I’m sure I’m in the minority here but, I just don’t really understand why Portnoy is elevated as being one of metal’s greatest drummers. I don’t really hear anything interesting in his playing that sets him apart. When it came down to him vs Peart in the best band ever game, it was particularly confusing because Peart is doing something interesting the entire time, throwing in little shades and elements few drummers go out of their way to include. Same with Rollo, who’s kind of like the in-between of Portnoy and Peart. He can make it straightforward and also take it to the next level and go wild on the kit, particularly to fit the demand from Romeo’s songwriting. Portnoy has his moments for sure but by and large — and admitting this is probably just a me thing — I don’t really get what it is about him that everyone seems to love.
 
Diesel 11 said:
Also, and I’m sure I’m in the minority here but, I just don’t really understand why Portnoy is elevated as being one of metal’s greatest drummers. I don’t really hear anything interesting in his playing that sets him apart. When it came down to him vs Peart in the best band ever game, it was particularly confusing because Peart is doing something interesting the entire time, throwing in little shades and elements few drummers go out of their way to include. Same with Rollo, who’s kind of like the in-between of Portnoy and Peart. He can make it straightforward and also take it to the next level and go wild on the kit, particularly to fit the demand from Romeo’s songwriting. Portnoy has his moments for sure but by and large — and admitting this is probably just a me thing — I don’t really get what it is about him that everyone seems to love.
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I already commented on this, but once again - I admit that Peart is ingenious when it comes to patterns, rhythms etc. ... but to me personally he is dreadfully boring and that is why I dislike him that much. He has none of that Latin charm, of the warm, groovy blood pumping, it's all really calculated in a way that feels even more sterile to me than Mangini does (because he brings it to another level of absurdity; yes, he is cold, calculated and "without feels", but what he does is sometimes so ridiculous it's still too much fun for me)

Portnoy might be below Peart and Mangini (and I don't know how he compares to Rullo) in terms of this type of technicality, yet, he is very technical still (ooh, the accents in Test That Stumped Them All!) and he has absolutely awesome groove. He is one of the most consistent guys to make me air-drum like a madman even if somebody else is watching me. It's just so lively and energetic.

I believe (or at least I think I read it somewhere) that Portnoy himself said once about Nicko something along the lines "he can play a third of the rhythms I can, but he just sounds better at those chosen few then I ever will". That's what makes me love him and dislike Peart (also, Objectivism? I guess + the unbridled veneration of Rush in general that gets on my nerves)

He just seems like a guy who could clave if he wanted to. I guess?

The combination of technicality and passion is really what seals the deal for me. Always has, always will.

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As for Rullo, I actually really love him and I insist the Symph show is Allen + Romeo + Rullo. He is indeed one of the greats and I love his work. Also, to be positive - like I said, I love Symph X very much and as far as the shorter songs go, Fallen might be my favourite short song in general among both the bands? Maybe? Maybe not, but enough so that I would put it here.

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Detective Beauregard said:
Lyrically, I prefer concepts about life and experiences and stuff like that, so mythology and war (and the tuff-guy metal lyrics of Symphony X’s later, more inferior work) isn’t my thing. “We are strong! We will stand and fight!” That band needs a real lyricist. To me, Dream Theater (Petrucci in particular, excluding the count song) are far more my lyrical tastes. Not Portnoy’s stuff, though. His lyrics take Romeo’s and Russell’s to a whole other level...
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Although I personally love mythology (and should prefer it, I guess in the bands), I still find it to be quite inadequately done in Symph X's case, with some exceptions (yes, The Odyssey in particular is just glorious, lyrically).

But it's the second half of your post that really feels like a rather strange take - I though it was widely accepted and acknowledged that it was Portnoy who kept DT lyrically in line and that it was Petrucci who was behind some of the cringiest moments ever ("Dreadful ending: Killer died!", About to Crash + Solitary Shell, A Nightmare to Remember + The Count, much as I love both...)?

But whatever floats your boat, I guess.
 
Yeah, to me I just hear a lot of passion in Peart’s playing beyond the technicality that I don’t really hear in Portnoy’s work. But then Peart is probably my favorite drummer so yeah. Whenever I hear Rush I’m just grooving and air-drumming alongside him, it’s just the way it is for me, lol.
 
Midnight said:
"Then she weaved a mist... and cast me into the shadows!"
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"She saaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiyeaheahheahaaaiaaayaaid..."

Mosh said:
There are two things that typically put DT over the edge for me. The first is balance among the instrumentalists. Symphony X has really turned into the Allen and Romeo show, and even in their glory days the other instruments weren’t that more musically prominent, they were just more audible in the mix. While I concede that JLB is a weaker vocalist than Allen, I prefer every other musician in DT to their counterpart in SX. The songs just feel more well rounded and it feels like everyone is playing to their strengths. The Petrucci/Rudess/Portnoy chemistry is legendary and unmatched.

The other thing, and this is going to make people upset, is that SX is kinda formulaic. The riffing style, the song structures, Romeo’s playing, they’re really good at what they do but there’s not a lot of variety to it. Sometimes I find their songs blend together, especially the short rockers. But even the ballads, as enjoyable as they are, have a lot of recycled material. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, I obvious enjoy SX immensely, but I give DT major credit for constantly varying their sound and doing new things. Look no further than Six Degrees, where each song is a unique experience.
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I definitely agree that the two bands really have very little in common. They always get compared but they really aren't similar at all. Symphony X is far more metal than Dream Theater, for example.

Since Paradise Lost, yes - Symphony X has been more focused on guitar riffs and vocals. But that's not how they used to be. Albums like Divine Wings, Twilight, V, etc. feature just as much bass and keyboard as they do guitars. The Odyssey headed in the guitar-driven direction but was still a 50/50 mix of their older style, but they've gotten carried away with Paradise Lost onward. The songs are less interesting to me now because they're more straightforward and less complex in general. Paradise Lost, while a great album, isn't even that progressive. There's almost none of the band's signature polymetrics present, for example.

However, with Symphony X I always know that I'm going to get 90% quality, 10% filler. That just isn't the case with Dream Theater, who tend to get more experimental with stuff like The Astonishing and Octavarium. Overall, DT definitely has more emotion in their music and melodies, but they rarely capture the epic highs and raw power of Symphony X.

I completely disagree with DT's chemistry compared to Symphony X's. I've seen both bands live countless times, and DT are literally robots. Symphony X feed off of each other and groove with each other, while the only chemistry I see in DT is when Myung and Petrucci stand next to each other and play the same riff (which still seems choreographed). Rudess and Mangini are cyborgs; once you get past the "wow" factor, watching them becomes a chore.

I will agree that Symphony X tends to stick in a safe zone in terms of songwriting, while DT takes more risks. However, I like that Symphony X actually writes songs as opposed to exercises meant to show off and impress. I can't recall any technically-challenging moment in a Symphony X song that doesn't benefit the song, whereas with DT there's around a 50% chance that an obligatory 4-minute wank session will come out of left field midway through every other song. Examples? Endless Sacrifice, The Ministry of Lost Souls, Beyond This Life, Outcry, half the songs on BC&SL, Pale Blue Dot, etc. In fact, DT's self-titled album is one of my favorites of theirs because they dial a lot of that back in favor of actually writing songs.
 
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Diesel 11 said:
This is definitely true, Symphony X do the same thing quite a lot (Of Sins And Shadows vs Inferno for instance). But at least in their golden age, their formulaic nature never impeded them from adding some new element that made the songs stand out and kick ass all over again.

Also, and I’m sure I’m in the minority here but, I just don’t really understand why Portnoy is elevated as being one of metal’s greatest drummers. I don’t really hear anything interesting in his playing that sets him apart. When it came down to him vs Peart in the best band ever game, it was particularly confusing because Peart is doing something interesting the entire time, throwing in little shades and elements few drummers go out of their way to include. Same with Rollo, who’s kind of like the in-between of Portnoy and Peart. He can make it straightforward and also take it to the next level and go wild on the kit, particularly to fit the demand from Romeo’s songwriting. Portnoy has his moments for sure but by and large — and admitting this is probably just a me thing — I don’t really get what it is about him that everyone seems to love.
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I think that Portnoy plays with a lot of feeling, so perhaps that (along with his obvious technical ability) is what people love. Dream Theater had a lot of big open emotional moments where Portnoy could really shine. For Rullo (who I prefer to literally any other metal drummer ever), he isn't given those kinds of opportunities due to the more restricted style of Symphony X's music.

Comparing Portnoy to Mangini is where I lose it, though. Portnoy may have an abrasive personality and has penned some weak lyrics, but I've never heard Mangini play with feeling in anything he does. He is a calculator, and that bores me.

JudasMyGuide said:
As for Rullo, I actually really love him and I insist the Symph show is Allen + Romeo + Rullo. He is indeed one of the greats and I love his work. Also, to be positive - like I said, I love Symph X very much and as far as the shorter songs go, Fallen might be my favourite short song in general among both the bands? Maybe? Maybe not, but enough so that I would put it here.

Although I personally love mythology (and should prefer it, I guess in the bands), I still find it to be quite inadequately done in Symph X's case, with some exceptions (yes, The Odyssey in particular is just glorious, lyrically).

But it's the second half of your post that really feels like a rather strange take - I though it was widely accepted and acknowledged that it was Portnoy who kept DT lyrically in line and that it was Petrucci who was behind some of the cringiest moments ever ("Dreadful ending: Killer died!", About to Crash + Solitary Shell, A Nightmare to Remember + The Count, much as I love both...)?

But whatever floats your boat, I guess.
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I love Rullo and the energy he brings to Symphony X. He was the first drummer I had ever heard play those kinds of polymetrics, which you hear a lot more in Symphony X's music (since they tend to follow the riff in some ways) as opposed to DT (where everyone often plays the same thing). A lot of Symphony X songs have them - Eyes of Medusa, Through the Looking Glass, Fallen, King of Terrors, half the stuff on Iconoclast, etc. One of the reasons why Paradise Lost is less interesting musically to me is because there are so few polymeters when compared to the band's other work.

I don't dislike mythology-based lyrics, but I find them to be rather cheesy. However, what I find worse are the generic lyrics that the band started spitting out on Iconoclast and Underworld. There's only a few Symphony X songs that I believe have interesting lyrics, and from memory, Candlelight Fantasia and Awakenings are among them. But I will admit that I've never really paid much attention to what Russell is singing, but rather how he is delivering it.

With DT, I couldn't tell you who wrote their lyrics in the earlier days. Images, Awake, FII - those albums all had solid lyrics. I know Petrucci did Lines in the Sand, which grabbed my attention. But when I think "Portnoy lyric time," my mind immediately goes to Honor Thy Father, Never Enough, most of the alcoholic songs, etc. We must also consider his delivery of some of Petrucci's weaker lyrics, such as the bridge of A Nightmare to Remember and The Dark Eternal Night.

From what I remember, Myung wrote the most interesting lyrics in DT, and he's only written like five songs. So Myung floats my boat.
 
Detective Beauregard said:
Since Paradise Lost, yes - Symphony X has been more focused on guitar riffs and vocals. But that's not how they used to be. Albums like Divine Wings, Twilight, V, etc. feature just as much bass and keyboard as they do guitars. The Odyssey headed in the guitar-driven direction but was still a 50/50 mix of their older style, but they've gotten carried away with Paradise Lost onward. The songs are less interesting to me now because they're more straightforward and less complex in general. Paradise Lost, while a great album, isn't even that progressive. There's almost none of the band's signature polymetrics present, for example.
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I don’t entirely disagree, Thomas Miller was definitely a flashier player, but imo it was more that there were spaces to feature bass and keys rather than the bass and keys being arranged into the songs really well (the bass more so). The keys are really well balanced on Damnation Game and Divine Wings, but I think there’s a gradual decline until you get to Paradise Lost. There was probably also a desire to use the space filled by the keys with orchestral sounds, which (not coincidently) started to get a lot more realistic sounding around The Odyssey and Paradise Lost.

Detective Beauregard said:
I completely disagree with DT's chemistry compared to Symphony X's. I've seen both bands live countless times, and DT are literally robots. Symphony X feed off of each other and groove with each other, while the only chemistry I see in DT is when Myung and Petrucci stand next to each other and play the same riff (which still seems choreographed). Rudess and Mangini are cyborgs; once you get past the "wow" factor, watching them becomes a chore.
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You’re talking about the visual element here. I mean pure musical chemistry and the way they write songs together.
 
Rush will get their third same-on-same match next round. It's like this one super team has all these smaller clubs the sponsor and they keep coming up against each other.
 
Blood and Belief is one of Blaze's lesser albums. Sorry, it is. It's not bad, he's only made one really bad album, but it's a lesser album. Still, if it was close I would have been tempted to vote for it to end Dance of Death's too-deep run. But it's not close, so I can vote Iron Maiden without any concerns.

Ghost, if only because Square Hammer is an anthem similar to Madhouse, but the rest of Meliora is significantly better to the rest of Spreading the Disease. The Anthrax tracks are good but Meliora is likely Ghost's pinnacle, especially if they continue to move towards pop.

Easy vote for Amon Amarth. Vikings > ancient Finns.

Rush.
 
Mosh said:
I don’t entirely disagree, Thomas Miller was definitely a flashier player, but imo it was more that there were spaces to feature bass and keys rather than the bass and keys being arranged into the songs really well (the bass more so). The keys are really well balanced on Damnation Game and Divine Wings, but I think there’s a gradual decline until you get to Paradise Lost. There was probably also a desire to use the space filled by the keys with orchestral sounds, which (not coincidently) started to get a lot more realistic sounding around The Odyssey and Paradise Lost.


You’re talking about the visual element here. I mean pure musical chemistry and the way they write songs together.
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I love Lepond’s bass work and I think he is a great live performer, but Miller’s style is more to my liking. Lepond is a self-confessed “straight ahead non-prog metal guy,” and that’s never been my preference. I give him credit for playing some of that lead stuff on a 4-string, but Miller’s bass parts stood out more (and they were also higher in the mix due to the guitars being less overwhelming back then). He also arguably wrote the band’s best lyrics.

The keyboard style that Pinnella used on the band’s early work is something I dearly miss. Playing haunting piano lines over a complex polymetric riff was the band’s style for years, and I’ll take that any day over the straightforward chugga-chugga of Paradise Lost onward. The epic choirs are cool but it’s reached a point where they’re simply overused. I’ll admit that I don’t mind the band cutting back on keyboard solos, as the early days are filled with solo sections that felt tacked on and bloated. They always fit the songs from a flow standpoint, but many weren’t necessary in my opinion. Smoke and Mirrors, for example, could have been cut to one solo each. Same goes for many other songs from that era.

Regarding chemistry, I haven’t heard it in DT since the early Rudess days. Much of what they have written since Train of Thought seems forced; also, it’s mostly the Petrucci show now in that department. Scenes and the pre-Rudess albums had excellent songwriting that rarely seemed forced; the instrumental sections in particular (much like Symphony X) fit the songs and didn’t seem tacked on solely to impress. They have written many tasteful songs since (Blind Faith, Forsaken, Breaking All Illusions, Beneath the Surface, most of the self-titled, much of D/T, etc. come to mind), but the magic that was present on their second through fifth albums is gone. I feel the same way about Symphony X, but replace fifth album with sixth album.
 
Iron Maiden kicks out Blaze...again. He's got a tiebreaker coming up in a second!
Ghost stops the spread of Anthrax pretty quickly. Anthrax is back in the Premiership.
Amon Amarth cuts down Amorphis, who are eliminated from the GMAC. You know, most Amorphis albums we saw did quite well in the mushy middle, but didn't survive now that we move into the fully professional leagues. Let's pour one out for them. The Vikings battle with Motörhead in League 5.
Rush defeats Rush for the second time this game. It's Celtic Frost next.
 
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