GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!

Mosh said:
Rush has one thing Floyd doesn’t: hard riffs. They also have reggae backbeats, so it’s hard to say how metal they are. Still, a pile of dead mosquitoes couldn’t stop me from voting for rush.
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It'd weird how the definition of metal has changed since the days of Purple, Sabbath and (yes) Zep.
Some bands expanded it, others refined it to a very specific pure form without much room for variation. I'm glad that this game has chosen a more open definition.

Personally, I don't consider some of the more extreme forms of music I've heard in this game 'metal' because the metal I have been listening to for 40 years always had melody. To each his or her own.

That said, I find it hard to not consider something like the riffing on Natural Science 'metal.'
 
Ah... Ghost. From times to times there are these acts that come and go and turn out to be one hell of a hype for no apparent reason (at least musically speaking). And make no mistake: I think there's nothing gravely wrong concerning the band's sound but I believe that Ghost is one of those cakes that are too much topping (specifically the visual side) and too little content for the fuss they generate. After a brief intro Rats reveals to be an interesting retro hard rocker that would fit perfectly in one of Ozzy's first records. From the get go one of the things that holds Ghost's sound a bit back is Tobias Forge's voice. Not that the man can't sing but I think his approach to the whole thing throughout the remainder of the album demanded a little more of fire and sharpness. Faith is a bit heavier and although really competent it reveals once again the lack of oomph that IMO the band suffers. See The Light is boring as hell while Miasma is a fairly enjoyable piece of psychedelic heavy rock (that sax solo really caught me by surprise). Danse Macabre is really bad 80's hard rock but on the other hand Pro Memoria's 70's prog rock kinda Pink Floyd second wave inspired smoothness and intelligent build really works (also think Tobias' voice is way more fitting to this kind of vibe). Witch Image is more lalala skipabble stuff and the next instrumental has some cool nuances but that's it. To close the record a watered down slow and calm Prog Rocker that, although featuring nothing systematically wrong, is a perfect sample of what this record is mood wise: a really well played yet unmoving 40 minutes plus yawn, bloated and boring as much as competent and immediately pleasant to the hear. The problem with Prequel isn't what it is (as I said before the majority of the material here has nothing wrong). It's precisely what it isn't, what it fails to reach, as IMO music is always intended to be a catalyst of some sort of emotion and I feel absolutely nothing compeling in the crushing majority of Ghost's songs. Perhaps they ran out of ideas after imagining their suits and make up, I don't know. Iron Maiden's Dance Of Death is easily better at every composing and musical level.

Then we have the Aussies Angels (when they were known as Angel City) and although being a bit predictable this is a really solid 70's hard rock album. It picks a bit from old Status Quo, ZZ Top and even their homies AC/DC with a small wink at punk rock here and there (it was the late 70's after all). And that's it: some really exciting mug facing clenched fist pumping rockers can be found here as Take A Long Line, Comin' Down or Shadow Boxer. Like old school grown beard men rock? This is for you for sure. Only downside is it offers little more than that. But I believe all these dudes wanted was precisely that... a record to have a good time while listening and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Nevertheless Coroner's technical Thrash is way more my beach of choice.

And man... Godsmack REALLY annoys me! It's one more of those bands that, unlike many abominations that were taking form when Nu Metal was taking over the scene, apparently has nothing wrong with their sound as far as I'm concerned. But once again the problem here is not what Godsmack brings to the table. Instead its their lack of originality, true fury in the heavier moments and sentiment in the calmer. Listening to Faceless is like plunging into a well wrapped and shining box of nothingness: no new ideas, no compelling ambiances, an absolute compositional void besides the fairly competent yet predictable instrument playing. Spirit Of The Earth Aflame is precisely the opposite when it comes to soul and passion so it's an easy vote for Primordial.

Rush are a legendary band that are to Dream Theater and all Prog Metal bands the same that Zeppelin and Purple was to Judas Priest and UFO. Without both these bands' IMMEDIATE and ALL AROUND influence I'm dead sure Prog Metal and Heavy Metal would be utterly different. I think that settles my point regarding the eligibility of all these proto metal acts (unlike the mighty Pink Floyd that had a far lesser impact on the main architecture of what metal is normally portraited as and it pains me to always vote against them). With that out of the way I'm not that much of a Rush fan. I mean... I really love 2112, Hemispheres and a couple more of their 70's stuff but that's it. Permanent Waves really detaches itself significantly from that era and I must confess (although still being a bible of prog technique) I really didn't dig the majority of the album. Nevertheless there are some exceptions: Jacobs Ladder is one hell of a track that I really didn't knew. Closing the record comes the only song I knew previously from this album: the anthemic utterly labyrinthic prog rock opus Natural Science... and man this thing is a feast for any Prog Rocker (and possibly the closest to their earlier sound I referred to). So there you go... two songs but taking in account the other four I think it kinda falls short as an whole album. Running Wild's album is nothing special comparing to their best releases (as I said before) but at least is way more constant regarding quality and so it gets my vote by a whisker.
 
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I'm just glad that in general we don't decide solely according to Metal Archives, who are idiots. Sorry, but their picks are completely arbitrary - relatively recently they deleted all the medieval metal bands (In Extremo, Subway to Sally, Schandmaul), because not enough metal, they never had System of a Down or Rammstein, because not enough metal, but then they put there Purple and Rush. Just because.

They actually admit to it in the FAQ - that their selection is admittedly arbitrary and you don't get to complain. Well, thank you, anonymous internet people who registered that domain.

I voted against Rush because I hate the f*** band (after I loved them for a short time, to be clear), I voted for Floyd because I love them. Although both are ridiculous as "metal", tbh.

Anyway, I voted for Maiden - I might consider DOD to be really uneven, but I'd vote for the worst Maiden album against Ghost. Heck, I'd vote for 99% of metal albums in general against that wankers. I'd vote for Rush against them. Heck, I'd vote for a penile fracture over the band that released Kiss the Go-Goat.

I don't care about either of the albums in the second pairing, but Coroner are probably closer to being consistently enjoyable.

Primordial - again, not my favourite album, but one of the bands that should get really high in any metal cup.

Running Wild - not only I'm for all things pirate, but also they're against Rush, so...

oh and

Ariana said:
I would probably vote for a dead mosquito over Rush.
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Thank you, you always warm my heart <3 I voted for Alter Bridge, you know?
 
mckindog said:
Personally, I don't consider some of the more extreme forms of music I've heard in this game 'metal' because the metal I have been listening to for 40 years always had melody.
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I can't recall of a single record that entered this game that didn't have melody (regarding the word's definition). Downtuning, dissonant scales and extreme heaviness are attributes that can at best camouflage melody but never kill it.
mckindog said:
That said, I find it hard to not consider something like the riffing on Natural Science 'metal.'
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I concur. Some passages could be at any of the 70's metal heaviest metal records and wouldn't be slightly dislocated.
 
I don’t particularly care for Tobias Forge’s singing style, but the songwriting on the Ghost album is consistently strong, and it’s enjoyable to listen to. Gotta love that sax solo. Dance Of Death is bottom third Maiden, and while it has some highlights, it’s also got a lot of filler, and some meaningful production problems. Though this one is still sort of close overall, I’m going to go with @Yax ’s nominee here. Sorry, @Black Wizard. Winner: Ghost

The Angel City (or is it The Angels?) album is fine. Pretty solid melodic hard rock with maybe a little hint of punk. The Coroner album is rough around the edges and could have better singing, but the riffage is great and the album consistently holds my interest. Sorry, @mckindog, but the list nominee gets my vote here. Winner: Coroner

This third match-up is tough because I don’t have particularly strong feelings for or against either album. Godsmack is more melodic than a lot of their nu-metal brethren, but their lyrics are annoyingly bro-tastic and the songs are a bit samey. Still a solid record overall, though. I like the tone of the Primordial record, and the core musical ideas are good. The singing is a bit amateurish and off-key, and occasionally lapses into black metal vox that I don’t care for. Also, the songs tend to get into a single groove and sit there the entire time, which isn’t ideal. Honestly, I could probably flip a coin here, but I’ll get off the fence and go with @Magnus ‘s choice because I prefer the sound that Primordial is trying for, even if they aren’t fully successful at getting there. Sorry, @Saapanael. Winner: Primordial

For the last matchup, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no-contest win for @mckindog. Winner: Rush
 
Once again it's not the what but the why. It's a common trait Nemtheanga to sing half a tone off key and that's absolutely intended to go along with his bard like storytelling prone vocals. Further ahead he started doing something really interesting called micro shifting where he goes on and off key (something that is far from being new or amateurish: really recently the Seattle scene used and abused it - especially Kurt Cobain). You can spot the same trend into countless other skilled metal vocalists like Confessor's Scott Jeffreys who does the same inflection (although his output is completely different - high pitch falsetto). But if your sense of non amateurish is being square on key without nuances, discarding dissonance and dynamics then Primordial's voice is surely (and fortunately) "amateurish".
 
karljant said:
But if your sense of non amateurish is being square on key without nuances, discarding dissonance and dynamics then Primordial's voice is surely (and fortunately) "amateurish".
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If the performer’s supposedly cunning, intentional, 3D chess approach to their instrument produces results that are indistinguishable from an amateur trying their best and not quite getting there, does it matter what their intentions were anymore, or do they just sound bad?
 
Sad to see such a great album like Ghost´s Prequelle losing against a mediocre Maiden.
Oh wait, we´re on a Maiden forum. :p
And what´s with the comparison of a dead mosquito and Rush? :wtf:
 
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Ghost vs Maiden - I gave my opinion on Dance of Death recently, and I don't think it's Maiden's best. It does have moments of greatness though, and they are not all that few. The Ghost album is competent and professional, but seriously, I hear nothing in it that is great, much less anything that qualifies it even for consideration of being a great album. Honestly, it just bores me. Maiden with the win.

Angel City vs Coroner - Angel City is your typical mid-70's hard rock, more melodic than AC/DC and edgier than Deep Purple, but that's the thing: I can't really assess it by its own merit, only by comparing it to other music from the time. It's really nothing special. With Coroner, I appreciate that there is quality to what they are doing, but just like Death and Celtic Frost, this brood-to-fiddle interval they do every other second is something I have no patience for and after struggling to listen to the song Loosey posted until the end, I really don't feel like an entire album full of it. This is just not my type of music. I'll have to go with Angel City.

Godsmack vs Primordial - Ah, the days when people thought having your guitar hanging below your knee looked cool (it never did) and that angsty white suburban teenager music was edgy (it never was). Nostalgia can't save this dreck, though. Primordial, on the other hand, is holy music. No contest.

Rush vs Running Wild - I'm not part of the Rush worship on this board, nor would I say they are one of my favourite bands, but I do enjoy them and listen to their albums every once in a while. Permanent Waves is certainly a classic and better than post-prime Running Wild, even if I like the latter a lot. So, Rush.
 
Jer said:
If the performer’s supposedly cunning, intentional, 3D chess approach to their instrument produces results that are indistinguishable from an amateur trying their best and not quite getting there, does it matter what their intentions were anymore, or do they just sound bad?
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Point 1: It's indistinguishable maybe for you, since the man perfected that same way of on key/ off key subtle shifts in singing in further albums.
Point 2: They sound bad to you judging by the number of die hard fans the band and especially Nemtheanga's voice amassed throughout the years and to a certain point the records' performance on this game.
But hey... have it your way. It's fine by me
 
karljant said:
Point 2: They sound bad to you judging by the number of die hard fans the band and especially Nemtheanga's voice amassed throughout the years and to a certain point the records' performance on this game.
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OK. Someone could use the same argument to claim that Dave Mustaine’s vocal technique is some amazing, intentional piece of performance art. I’m a fan of Megadeth, but I would never make that argument about Dave’s voice — he’s a bad singer. His voice has attitude and drips with scorn, so it can grow on you if you overlook its technical shortcomings, but it would be foolish for me to claim he’s some amazing master of an obscure vocal technique just because I like his music.
 
Was not expecting Angel City to do well with this audience. Karljant nailed their ethos: high-energy pub rock honed by conquering halls packed with obnoxious Aussie drunks with a relentless fist-pumping attack.

What elevated them beyond was the crazed-eyes baritone of Doc Neeson croaking out portentous lyrics like
"Who lies on sheets of ice, who pays for paradise, after the rain? Who suffers fools and freaks, who hangs in guilty cliques, after the rain?
while hurling himself off the risers and hanging himself with his necktie.

The double-live set Liveline does a better job of capturing their fury. Their later work had, in turns, more variation, and a more AC/DC bent, but the high-energy simple rhythms and undeniable melodic hooks of Face the Face remains their signature. I will continue to spread the gospel.

I liked the Coroner song. It certainly hits close to dead-centre in the 2020 definition of metal.
 
Do I like Ghost? Yes, I do. Do I like Prequelle? It's fine, but the pop influence is pretty thick and I believe it lowers the overall quality of the record. Still, if you want a semi-hard band with dance numbers, that's what they seem to be building towards. Dance of Death will eventually lose to a better album, but this isn't it. Iron Maiden.

Thanks to @mckindog for sharing Angel City, a band I wasn't familiar with. They're pretty okay, the sort of thing I can listen to when hanging out with my parents or want to put on harder music for a more normie audience. That said, Coroner has some pretty good guitar riffs and it rocks harder. One of the bigger surprises so far of the tournament for me.

I don't judge @Saapanael for liking Godsmack. Goodness knows, I liked Limp Bizkit once. But in a tournament environment, do they even come close to standing up to Primordial? Nah. That said, they are more likeable than most of their peers in 2020.

Rushbias.

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Being an old fart, I am less familiar with Ghost than probably anyone reading this, so forgive me from stating the obvious, but this is the catchiest chunk of metal pop I have heard since Jon Bon Jovi was hanging out in Vancouver strip bars, or Kiss heard Beth calling. They are performing a schtick as old as Alice Cooper and it is so obviously commercially contrived that I feel a tad icky saying it, but this album is cohesive, deep and really, really good at what it does. Do these guys have any cred at all among "real" metalheads, and why?

It would have got my vote over many competitors, but I am apparently falling into the Maiden bias trap, because I like Dance of Death. It's more uneven than Prequelle, but Paschendale, Dance of Death and Rainmaker are just great, great songs and the more conventional hard rock-isms of tracks like New Frontier are more my thing than they are for a lot of you.
 
Mckindog feels differently, but I'm kind of relieved some people shared my opinion on Ghost. It's a band I have heard praised so much, and I was afraid it's yet again a band I don't understand.
 
I think I liked this Primordial song more than other ones that have come up in the tourney, and my memory says the others weren't bad either. Again, I hear a great, sluggish beast heaving its bulk through a prehistoric swamp. I like it, but I think it would only work for me in small doses, as opposed to a full album. I could also see it growing on me.

Godsmack is pretty meh. I won't complain if you want to listen to it, but if I'm on my own, I'm going to change the channel. I can like abrasive, but not that kind of abrasive.
 
Wheels within wheels in a spiral array, it's patterns so grand and complex/ Time after time we lose sight of the way, our causes can't see their effects
^^^ is an elite example of the kind of music I like best, a thoughtful, well-performed, hard-hitting and varied album that sustains from start to finish.

I have thoroughly enjoyed Black Hand Inn and have added it to my collection. It stimulates my adrenalin gland the same way the Angel City album does with pace and melody, and makes me hyper and happy. Unfortunately, it ran into a monster.
 
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