Frank Zappa Discussion/Survivor: Last albums by original Mothers (now voting!) [abandoned]
- Thread starter SinisterMinisterX
- Start date
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
I'm Not Satisfied
You're Probably Wondering - two weakest tracks off the first album, IMHO
Trouble Every Day - too preachy, too long, too... "Dylanish"?
Plastic People - one of the weaker tracks off the second album (which I generally like much more, BTW) - it bores me and it gave name to those incompetent poseurs in the Czech Republic who worshipped Zappa and the Velvet Underground and who are still revered up to this day pretty much because they were imprisoned by the regime. The second reason's just for fun, though
You're Probably Wondering - two weakest tracks off the first album, IMHO
Trouble Every Day - too preachy, too long, too... "Dylanish"?
Plastic People - one of the weaker tracks off the second album (which I generally like much more, BTW) - it bores me and it gave name to those incompetent poseurs in the Czech Republic who worshipped Zappa and the Velvet Underground and who are still revered up to this day pretty much because they were imprisoned by the regime. The second reason's just for fun, though
"I Ain't Got No Heart", "I Ain't Satisfied" and "You're Probably Wondering Why I'm Here" are eliminated.
Round 3 has begun, six more songs to eliminate!
@Mosh
@Shadow
@Deus_Adrian
@JudasMyGuide
... and all others wishing to freak out.
@Mosh
@Shadow
@Deus_Adrian
@JudasMyGuide
... and all others wishing to freak out.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Brain Police
How Could I Be Such a Fool?
Trouble Every Day
Plastic People
I'm probably alone in that regard, but purely from the personal point of view (that is, how much fun the album is to me), Absolutely Free wins easily over both the debut and WOIIFTM. The debut's way too much rooted in the doo wop etc., it sounds a bit half-baked to me at times, it would definitely need some trimming (throw away that needles "social commentary" of Trouble Every Day, get rid of some of the 60's parody stuff (I'm Not Satisfied, You're Probably Wondering) and shorten the Magnet a bit and you have a nice little consistent single album, IMHO.
Money is actually way too serious in all that hippie-bashing, it's awfully inconsistent, and it's way too "inessential" - I mean, the Megaphone, Harry You're a Beast, Nasal Retentive..., Bow Tie Daddy... these and others are pretty much of the joke tracks, the "listened to it once/twice, no need to return" for me.
BTW - when we get to Money, I will (if you won't) mention that instrumental rendition of Take Your Clothes Off from The Lost Episodes - it's the "lounge" version which he recorded in the early 60's, IIRC, and it's been one of my favourites. Very sentimental for me, believe it or not.
How Could I Be Such a Fool?
Trouble Every Day
Plastic People
I'm probably alone in that regard, but purely from the personal point of view (that is, how much fun the album is to me), Absolutely Free wins easily over both the debut and WOIIFTM. The debut's way too much rooted in the doo wop etc., it sounds a bit half-baked to me at times, it would definitely need some trimming (throw away that needles "social commentary" of Trouble Every Day, get rid of some of the 60's parody stuff (I'm Not Satisfied, You're Probably Wondering) and shorten the Magnet a bit and you have a nice little consistent single album, IMHO.
Money is actually way too serious in all that hippie-bashing, it's awfully inconsistent, and it's way too "inessential" - I mean, the Megaphone, Harry You're a Beast, Nasal Retentive..., Bow Tie Daddy... these and others are pretty much of the joke tracks, the "listened to it once/twice, no need to return" for me.
BTW - when we get to Money, I will (if you won't) mention that instrumental rendition of Take Your Clothes Off from The Lost Episodes - it's the "lounge" version which he recorded in the early 60's, IIRC, and it's been one of my favourites. Very sentimental for me, believe it or not.
"How Could I Be Such A Fool", "Any Way The Wind Blows" and "Plastic People" are eliminated. The latter two of those eliminated on my tiebreaking vote - first time I've actually voted. 
3 more to kill and then on to the next group!
@Mosh
@Shadow
@JudasMyGuide
@Deus_Adrian
3 more to kill and then on to the next group!
@Mosh
@Shadow
@JudasMyGuide
@Deus_Adrian
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Brain Police, Trouble Every Day and Vegetable.
Group One is completed!
"You Didn't Try To Call Me", "The Duke Of Prunes" and "Call Any Vegetable" are eliminated.
Advancing to the next stage: "Hungry Freaks, Daddy", "Who Are The Brain Police?", "(More) Trouble Every Day" and "Brown Shoes Don't Make It".
"You Didn't Try To Call Me", "The Duke Of Prunes" and "Call Any Vegetable" are eliminated.
Advancing to the next stage: "Hungry Freaks, Daddy", "Who Are The Brain Police?", "(More) Trouble Every Day" and "Brown Shoes Don't Make It".
Our second group contains 14 songs, and 4 will move on to the finals.
Lumpy Gravy, August 1967 (Official release #3)
The "Lumpy Gravy" project spanned three albums. Each of these albums is very non-traditional: no breaks between songs, many avant-garde collages of sound effects, and edits that yank the listener between musical styles without warning. Confusingly, Lumpy Gravy is actually "Lumpy Gravy Phase II" despite being released first. I like this album a great deal; it has a wide variety of styles, plus all the pigs and ponies. It's one of the first I heard, and it was vastly different from anything I'd ever heard before.
The final album in the Lumpy Gravy project is Civilization Phaze III. It was the last record Zappa completed before his death, and released posthumously (Halloween 1994, official release #63). The compositions are complex, and performed by the Synclavier. It's really for hardcore Zappafreaks; I've never been able to get through Phaze III in a single sitting, because the density of the compositions wears out my poor brain.
However, nothing from Lumpy Gravy is in the Survivor. The album really only has 2 tracks - its two sides. There are no "songs" to extract, unlike "Lumpy Gravy Phase I", better known as...
We're Only In It For The Money, March 1968 (Official release #4)
I think all the Zappa fans who've been participating here already know: extracting songs from WOIIFTM doesn't quite feel right. Although Zappa did extract these songs and play them individually live, the original presentation was meant to be heard as a full album, not split up. I've chosen to focus on those songs which sound best on their own, or were live staples for Zappa.
The cover is an obvious Beatles parody, and it's in theme with the album. WOIIFTM is largely a satire, taking aim at the popular culture of 1967 (when it was made, simultaneously with Lumpy Gravy).
Who Needs The Peace Corps?
Zappa's first shot is at "phony hippies", and it includes Frank's reason for not liking drugs or drug users: "I'm really just a phony, but forgive me 'cause I'm stoned." FZ didn't care about "intoxication"; he wasn't a Puritan. He hated that drug users used their intoxication as an excuse for being an asshole. The song ends without a proper finish, as the album moves without warning into the next song.
Concentration Moon
Now Zappa takes aim at the establishment's treatment of the phony hippies. "American Way, threatened by us / Drag a few creeps away in a bus ... Cop kill a creep, POW POW POW."
Mom & Dad
I doubt FZ intended this, but I've always felt it was his response to the Beatles' "She's Leaving Home". A truly sad, even haunting song about the generational conflict.
"Ever tell your kids you're glad that they can think? Ever say you love them? Ever let them watch you drink?"
What really strikes me about the above three songs is the viciousness of the lyrics. There was plenty of protest music in 1968, but I don't know of any songs that are as brutal as these. Still, Frank (to me at least) doesn't sound mean-spirited here. He's criticizing everyone equally.
Harry, You're A Beast
This one starts out as a vicious attack on women, and ends with a bizzare sex scene. The scrambled section near the end is the lyric "Don't cum in me, in me" repeated four times. This may not seem like much of a "song", but it's in the game because it became a live staple - usually performed instrumentally as part of a medley with "The Orange County Lumber Truck" (that's coming up later in the game). A favorite of mine, if only for the WTF effect when Zappa reveals who the lyrics are attacking. Well executed misogyny.
Keep looking for those pigs and ponies! Discover and discuss!
Lumpy Gravy, August 1967 (Official release #3)
The "Lumpy Gravy" project spanned three albums. Each of these albums is very non-traditional: no breaks between songs, many avant-garde collages of sound effects, and edits that yank the listener between musical styles without warning. Confusingly, Lumpy Gravy is actually "Lumpy Gravy Phase II" despite being released first. I like this album a great deal; it has a wide variety of styles, plus all the pigs and ponies. It's one of the first I heard, and it was vastly different from anything I'd ever heard before.
The final album in the Lumpy Gravy project is Civilization Phaze III. It was the last record Zappa completed before his death, and released posthumously (Halloween 1994, official release #63). The compositions are complex, and performed by the Synclavier. It's really for hardcore Zappafreaks; I've never been able to get through Phaze III in a single sitting, because the density of the compositions wears out my poor brain.
However, nothing from Lumpy Gravy is in the Survivor. The album really only has 2 tracks - its two sides. There are no "songs" to extract, unlike "Lumpy Gravy Phase I", better known as...
We're Only In It For The Money, March 1968 (Official release #4)
I think all the Zappa fans who've been participating here already know: extracting songs from WOIIFTM doesn't quite feel right. Although Zappa did extract these songs and play them individually live, the original presentation was meant to be heard as a full album, not split up. I've chosen to focus on those songs which sound best on their own, or were live staples for Zappa.
The cover is an obvious Beatles parody, and it's in theme with the album. WOIIFTM is largely a satire, taking aim at the popular culture of 1967 (when it was made, simultaneously with Lumpy Gravy).
Who Needs The Peace Corps?
Zappa's first shot is at "phony hippies", and it includes Frank's reason for not liking drugs or drug users: "I'm really just a phony, but forgive me 'cause I'm stoned." FZ didn't care about "intoxication"; he wasn't a Puritan. He hated that drug users used their intoxication as an excuse for being an asshole. The song ends without a proper finish, as the album moves without warning into the next song.
Concentration Moon
Now Zappa takes aim at the establishment's treatment of the phony hippies. "American Way, threatened by us / Drag a few creeps away in a bus ... Cop kill a creep, POW POW POW."
Mom & Dad
I doubt FZ intended this, but I've always felt it was his response to the Beatles' "She's Leaving Home". A truly sad, even haunting song about the generational conflict.
"Ever tell your kids you're glad that they can think? Ever say you love them? Ever let them watch you drink?"
What really strikes me about the above three songs is the viciousness of the lyrics. There was plenty of protest music in 1968, but I don't know of any songs that are as brutal as these. Still, Frank (to me at least) doesn't sound mean-spirited here. He's criticizing everyone equally.
Harry, You're A Beast
This one starts out as a vicious attack on women, and ends with a bizzare sex scene. The scrambled section near the end is the lyric "Don't cum in me, in me" repeated four times. This may not seem like much of a "song", but it's in the game because it became a live staple - usually performed instrumentally as part of a medley with "The Orange County Lumber Truck" (that's coming up later in the game). A favorite of mine, if only for the WTF effect when Zappa reveals who the lyrics are attacking. Well executed misogyny.
Keep looking for those pigs and ponies! Discover and discuss!
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Somehow all day long, I forgot to mention... today was the 22nd anniversary of Zappa's death. 
What's The Ugliest Part Of Your Body?
Starts out pleasantly clever... and then Zappa releases the hounds.
Absolutely Free
Some of the best melodies on the whole album are in this song.
Let's Make The Water Turn Black
Stories about Ronnie and Kenny, Zappa's childhood friends.
Here's a superb live instrumental version, which segues into "Harry, You're A Beast", showing the versatility of that song as well.
Where's my waitress? Discover and discuss!
Starts out pleasantly clever... and then Zappa releases the hounds.
Absolutely Free
Some of the best melodies on the whole album are in this song.
Let's Make The Water Turn Black
Stories about Ronnie and Kenny, Zappa's childhood friends.
Here's a superb live instrumental version, which segues into "Harry, You're A Beast", showing the versatility of that song as well.
Where's my waitress? Discover and discuss!
If there's in anyone in a blocked country who needs an alternate video, speak up! I'll find 'em if ya need 'em. 
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I did an arrangement of Lets Make The Water Turn Black./Harry You're A Beast/Oh No/Orange County a few years ago for clarinet quartet. If I find the recording I'll post it here maybe.
WOIIFTM is one of my all time favorites. It's a little dark for a Zappa album, but I like it. It's probably where Zappa goes most overboard on studio tricks. AFAIK no live recordings are present here, everything is studio recorded and then heavily manipulated. This would become more and more of a rarity as the years went on, as while Zappa was a huge pioneer when it came to recording and studio work, he didn't seem especially fond of actually recording in the studio. He seemed more interested in taking live recordings and making them sound like they were recorded in the studio. After awhile he completely stopped recording guitar solos in the studio. With all that in mind, this album sticks out quite a bit in the catalog, more so than the other original Mothers albums just because of all the editing IMO.
The connections with Lumpy Gravy are really interesting too. Love that musique concret stuff.
WOIIFTM is one of my all time favorites. It's a little dark for a Zappa album, but I like it. It's probably where Zappa goes most overboard on studio tricks. AFAIK no live recordings are present here, everything is studio recorded and then heavily manipulated. This would become more and more of a rarity as the years went on, as while Zappa was a huge pioneer when it came to recording and studio work, he didn't seem especially fond of actually recording in the studio. He seemed more interested in taking live recordings and making them sound like they were recorded in the studio. After awhile he completely stopped recording guitar solos in the studio. With all that in mind, this album sticks out quite a bit in the catalog, more so than the other original Mothers albums just because of all the editing IMO.
The connections with Lumpy Gravy are really interesting too. Love that musique concret stuff.
You told me about that when you were working on it, before the performance. Yes, post it.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Peace Corps, Mom & Dad and Absolutely Free are some of the more "essential" songs (that is, they work even when taken alone, mostly). When I listen to the album nowadays, I usually pick a selection out of these and others and play that - the album as a whole is way too incoherent and inconsistent for me to really enjoy in one sitting. It sounds like an album full of intermezzos.
Absolutely Free is definitely one of the favourites.
Mom & Dad just sounds preachy to me, always had. Well, more and more I think about it, the whole album sounds that way too from time to time.
The lyrics on this album are mostly excellent, but sometimes it looks like Frank's been aware of it too. And what's with all the hippie bashing? I realise Frank probably disliked the crowd mentality, maybe even the general ideas, but do we really need an album that - by criticising and satirising it - actually takes the movement seriously?
Ugliest Part is fun, but zero, musically. Well, no, zero musically is Harry, Ugliest Part is just pedestrian.
Let's Make the Water is very cute, one of the times Frank's been overcome with nostalgia and it worked, IMHO. That live version is very good too.
Absolutely Free is definitely one of the favourites.
Mom & Dad just sounds preachy to me, always had. Well, more and more I think about it, the whole album sounds that way too from time to time.
The lyrics on this album are mostly excellent, but sometimes it looks like Frank's been aware of it too. And what's with all the hippie bashing? I realise Frank probably disliked the crowd mentality, maybe even the general ideas, but do we really need an album that - by criticising and satirising it - actually takes the movement seriously?
Ugliest Part is fun, but zero, musically. Well, no, zero musically is Harry, Ugliest Part is just pedestrian.
Let's Make the Water is very cute, one of the times Frank's been overcome with nostalgia and it worked, IMHO. That live version is very good too.
LA vs. SF. Los Angeles had a "freak" subculture that Zappa was part of; it's the source of the album name Freak Out!.
The Idiot Bastard Son
The continuing adventures of Kenny and Ronnie. Some nice vocal melodies on this one.
Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance
One of the album's best, in my opinion. Simple but charming, with one of Zappa's catchiest melodies.
Here's a great live recording, using TYCOWYD as a jam vehicle. From Halloween 1978 at The Palladium in NYC (Zappa played there every Halloween for a few years).
Mother People
The last song in our game from this album. Jimmy Carl Black's drum performance on this song stands out to me.
I've dropped "Lonely Little Girl" from the game. I love the rocking guitar opening, but there's not much to the song. Tomorrow(-ish) I'll bring in a few songs from Ruben & the Jets before we begin voting.
Are you hung up? Discover and discuss!
The continuing adventures of Kenny and Ronnie. Some nice vocal melodies on this one.
Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance
One of the album's best, in my opinion. Simple but charming, with one of Zappa's catchiest melodies.
Here's a great live recording, using TYCOWYD as a jam vehicle. From Halloween 1978 at The Palladium in NYC (Zappa played there every Halloween for a few years).
Mother People
The last song in our game from this album. Jimmy Carl Black's drum performance on this song stands out to me.
I've dropped "Lonely Little Girl" from the game. I love the rocking guitar opening, but there's not much to the song. Tomorrow(-ish) I'll bring in a few songs from Ruben & the Jets before we begin voting.
Are you hung up? Discover and discuss!
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
And like I promised, here is another version of Take Your Clothes Off - it resurfaced on Lost Episodes in the 90's, but the recording was made some time around 1962, I believe, with now mostly forgotten studio players, showing Frank has been carrying this one around in his head for quite some time. I like it a lot. It is a bit cheesy, but there is something very innocent about it, which is a rarity for Frank. Just your gentle ol' lounge tune.
EDIT: According to Wikipedia, the song was originally recorded as an instrumental by Frank Zappa in 1961 at Pal Recording Recording Studio.
EDIT: According to Wikipedia, the song was originally recorded as an instrumental by Frank Zappa in 1961 at Pal Recording Recording Studio.
I'm partial to the surf rock version at the end of Lumpy Gravy.
As for Money, it's got several great numbers and I think it might be Zappa's high point as a satirist. I got acquainted with it relatively early in my Zappa listening and it was another revelation to me, I don't I'd heard any album with so much going on in such a short space before. I listened to it so many times that I can spin the whole thing in my head.
As for Money, it's got several great numbers and I think it might be Zappa's high point as a satirist. I got acquainted with it relatively early in my Zappa listening and it was another revelation to me, I don't I'd heard any album with so much going on in such a short space before. I listened to it so many times that I can spin the whole thing in my head.