Europeans are stupid

[Anonymous]

I like your avatar. Is that Hadrian?

 

[Anonymous]

What's a European?

 

[Anonymous]

The opposite of an Irishman

 

[Urizen]

I don't know who it is, actually. But I don't think it's Hadrian, because I'm looking at my Plutarch's "Lives" book right now, that features Hadrian's head on the cover(or so it says inside), and he doesn't have facial hair at all, but besides that he looks similiar to my avatar(maybe he grown beard especially for that sculpture, or the sculptor messed it up ). On my book he is featured in front, and on the avatar in profile view, but I definitely see some resemblance anyway. It could be him.

I can not read the letters on the coin. I'll try to enlarge the image and figure it out, as I'm interested in finding this out also.
I got this avatar from some of the first sites that popped out when I typed "Avatar" on Google search. It is called "roman coin".
I'm glad you liked it.

 

[Anonymous]

Hadrian is actually notorious for being the first Roman emperor to carry a beard. He was actually a trendsetter with that, and pretty much every emperor after him wore one as well (not to mention the average Roman male around 130).

Strange to put Hadrian on the cover of a Plutarch edition, since he never wrote about him... but I guess it's the "ancient" flair

 

[Urizen]

Hadrian is actually notorious for being the first Roman emperor to carry a beard. He was actually a trendsetter with that, and pretty much every emperor after him wore one as well (not to mention the average Roman male around 130).
Strange to put Hadrian on the cover of a Plutarch edition, since he never wrote about him... but I guess it's the "ancient" flair

I didn't know that. But now when I think of it, the beard is explained by him being an admirer and patron of greek culture. I've read "Hadrian's memoars" and completely forgot about that fact. Probably, because I was then experimenting with Toni Buzan's fast reading method.

Yeah, I asked myself the same question when I bought it. My copy was published by a Belgrade publisher, maybe it was simply their choice. In the background there's a "Athenian scholl" by Raphaello.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Well, well, well... this thread has definitely taken a few turns since the original post, or since my post  .

I guess now I don't have to apologize to Duke  .  Anyway, I thought Duke's original thread was pretty much answered by the first post - which was Perun's.  I thought I'd take it in a new direction.  Praises to Anomica, Urizen and Perun for taking the time to answer my querries on the EU.  I encourage more discussion!

If members can drop out of EU and this remains so, than really there should not be much of a problem.  Why is Greece still in the EU if it is ruining their economy?  I agree that cultural heritage will not be lost due to EU membership.  No one can force any peoples to stop feeling passionate or to become dismissive of their culture without their approval. 

By the way, why is Duke being kicked so much?  Are Europeans on this board feeling so insulted?  I think stupidity is found everywhere regardless of country or continent.

To Urizen: Civilization IV kicks total ass!!!

To Albie: I did not realize that chief London papers would spend so much time talking about American pop-culture.  It seems it is more prevalent than in American media and almost as much as in Croatian media  . 
Hmmm... could this be why there is this negativity towards Americans?  People love to hate them because in some ways they are envied.  By the way British members: is Madonna considered more cultured now that she is a proper British lady?    According to her she definitely considers British culture to be superior.  Ah!  Celebrities!  Without them we'd have no one to poke fun, except politicians?  In conclusion, the amount of pop-culture in any particular country could be said to equal that country's ignorance of the rest of the world.  Well, that and poverty.

Concerning geography, I think Canadians (at least the younger generation) are also fairly ignorant. 

 

[Urizen]

Duke specifically asked everyone to kick him. There's a thread about it on the madness forum.
Yes, Civilisation4 is great. And I gotta tell you that my (crazy) brother had beaten the game while playing on the highest level(7)-I can't stay alive on third . But that was on Civ.3.

I think Greece stays in the EU, because they hope(or know) it will get better.
Here in Serbia politicians say, it's their goal to get us there, but they also warns us that it's no bed of roses. It's not like, you go into the EU and BUM! Everything's great. It takes time.

 

[IronDuke]

Duke specifically asked everyone to kick him. There's a thread about it on the madness forum.
Yes, Civilisation4 is great. And I gotta tell you that my (crazy) brother had beaten the game while playing on the highest level(7)-I can't stay alive on third . But that was on Civ.3.

I think Greece stays in the EU, because they hope(or know) it will get better.
Here in Serbia politicians say, it's their goal to get us there, but they also warns us that it's no bed of roses. It's not like, you go into the EU and BUM! Everything's great. It takes time.

Of what relevance is any of that first paragraph?

 

[Genghis Khan]

Of what relevance is any of that first paragraph?

Well, I was wondering why people were kicking you.  I thought you had a good point to make.  Naturally, I wondered if people misunderstood your thread.  I did not think people should have kicked you, but as Urizen explained for some reason yet unknown to me you asked them to kick you. 

And about Civ... well, uhm, you see Civ IV has many interesting quotes and long historical explanations from many different cultures which is sort of the opposite of saying that every country has dumb people.  Civ shows that every culture has smart people.  You should definitely get it Duke! 

 

[Belenor]

Switzerland got a new place too. I just wonder what happend to the Czech Republic...

Heheheh, if I could praise you, I would for this joke You know, the Czech Republic has been a colony for a long time in fact Austria-Hungary, Germany, Russia and nowadays, Switzerland ;-)


Well, I think people always look for someone to hate or dish dirt about, hehe. When the Czechoslovakia was a communist state controlled by the Soviet Union, our primary targets were Russians. Nowadays, we consider ourselves being free country and when the change occured, western culture (movies, music, books) ceased to be banned, we've got those bloody movies with Stallone and Schwarzenegger and yeah, bad metal music, McDonald and so on... And you know, USA is a good target now. Citizens of USA become stupid ignorants in our eyes, but hehe, when commies were in the lead, USA was our unreachable ideal deep in our souls, free country! Everybody wanted to be there!

 

[Anomica]

Hmmm... could this be why there is this negativity towards Americans?  People love to hate them because in some ways they are envied.  

This is close to what I meant when I talked about a big-brother syndrome - we envy the US for it's huge impact on almost everything around us. Big brother has it all and we want some of that too...

US culture and business affects music, food, art, literature, television, politics, business practice, stock market...we can't defend ourselves in any other way than by ridicule. And envy for it's richness and power. Swedish people (at least some) like to view themselves like powerful arbitors of peace, understanding and all that is good in life (IRONY!) but we have a very small impact on world affairs. In one way we envy the US for it's power, but we also feel that they're mis-using that power on "unworthy" causes (look for example at our involvement in the UN, or the Palestine/Israel conflict).

There is a drive towards "americanization" in Sweden (and perhaps all over Europe) when it comes to changes in our society, like social policy, employment, benefits, health care etc and I think it scares many people, which also leads to anti-americanism. Fear and envy are fertile grounds for hate or prejudice. It's complex, but anyone who thinks people are easy and straightforward is probably wrong

So you see, we are just as stupid and ignorant as everybody else...

 

[Natalie]

The same goes for Americans, unfortunately we Europeans tend to categorize them as stupid simply because the majority of Americans seem to lack even the rudiments of common knowledge, which just means Americans are more ignorant (but not necessarily more stupid, unless stupid means too silly to get off your lazy arse and educate yourself ).

I'm sorry for insulting anyone by writing this, but if you'll notice I wrote that it is unfortunate that Europeans as an entity categorize Americans as stupid since they seem to be defficient in common knowledge. This image of the stupid American is certainly helped along by the current president of the U.S., George W. Bush. Movies such as Supersize Me don't make the average American look any smarter either. What I'm saying is that I don't think Americans are stupid. You shouldn't make that sort of generalization about any group of people. They are just made to seem more ignorant than the rest of us. Also, from my personal experience, the gaps of knowledge of Americans my age at least in geography are HUGE. This guy (halfway decent education) actually asked me if Belgium was a city in Austria. His question made me think that he might not have such a decent education. Americans might be more ignorant than Europeans, or not. Its just that over here, we get to see the more ignorant side. I didn't mean this in any way to be insulting, I probably just didn't express myself clearly enough.

One word on the reason why Europeans think Americans are stupid. We envy Americans. Not all of us as individuals, but in my opinion, a lot of us. Why else do you think we pick on Americans and call them stupid? We want to be better than them because we aren't as successful or powerful as them. That's just my opinion, call it silly, but I think that is the painful truth about the greater part of Europe.

Have I managed to insult both Americans and Europeans? Maybe I should emigrate to Asia. 

@Genghis Khan: I have horror stories about Canadian knowledge of geography. Example: Is Nigeria a kind of sweet potato?

 

[Genghis Khan]

@Genghis Khan: I have horror stories about Canadian knowledge of geography. Example: Is Nigeria a kind of sweet potato?

To Anomica & Natalie and all:
There are several common themes running through this here thread.  I'd like to address them without getting into too many specifics.  It is thought that Europeans, in general, find Americans, in general, to highly influence Europeans in culture and politics while the situation is not reversed.  Combine that situation with the fact that most Americans (and Canadians too, sadly) are not that knowledgeable about Europe's politics, history and (especially) geography there is quite a bit of resentment from many European people.  As Anomica stated, European governments are changing or thinking of changing their social policies within their respective legislatures so they are more similar to that of USA, which means there is less government support for social programs.  People resent change and, if they can pinpoint the influence of that change, they will resent that influence as well, i.e. the United States.  I am not certain that many social programs are that successful in Europe.  I know that Canadians, for example, love to laud the significance of our Health Care system.  However, that system is not without serious glitches and problems, chiefly the brain-drain of our best doctors to other countries, the USA in particular and also the ridiculously long waiting time. 

I can understand the perspective from both camps, I think, to an extent at least, since I was born in Europe (Croatia) and now live in Canada.  I don't think this hostility towards Americans would be nowhere nearly as bad if more Americans (or at least their government and media) knew more about Europe or if America was not so influential globally.  On the other hand, I can understand that America is a large country, unlike European countries, so they do not feel the pressing need to understand more about the world across the pond.  This is a mistaken belief, nevertheless, as evidenced by the fact that almost every time the US government wants to fix global problems they only make it worse.  American foreign policy is based mostly, I firmly believe, on the expedient moment without trying to understand the local or regional situation.  For example, many American intellectuals were pointing out to the Bush government that ousting Hussein would only exacerbate the local tensions and hostilities.  Did Bush Jr., Rumsfeld and company listen?  No.  Also, there is a higher need for inter-dependence in Europe, which requires wider knowledge of one's neighbours.  What do people say?  A friend in need is a friend indeed.

Part of the difficulty is that USA is the ONLY global power today.  I sincerely believe that USA's domestic policies are mostly positive, and in many ways are the envy of the world, (and should be emulated).  America's foreign policy is a disaster and future American governments would do their own country, and the rest of the world a favour, if they sought to educate themselves about the world and stopped military interventions of foreign nations.  Just because you are a global power does not immediately give you the right to excercise that power.  I have complete sympathy and agreement with those people who believe America "is ignorant" in their foreign policies; I have no sympathy and I am completely in disagreement with those people who believe America "is ignorant" in its domestic policies of wanting more freedom and bash America because they believe in philosophies like "rags to riches".  I realize that every country has contradictions when it comes to practicing their freedoms, democracies and free economies, but I still think that USA is the most liberated country today, with some exceptions of social freedoms in marginalized groups, for example the unnecessary militant pursuit of banning marijuana in all forms and uses.  I am also unsympathetic of Europeans who sop up American culture like sponges water and then complain that their nation is losing its national identity. 

I hinted earlier that pop-culture is partially the culprit of the decreasing interest in the world around us, and thus an important contributor to increasing self-absorption.  Media is so influential with children in all the Western societies that it is increasingly harder for them to spend time apart from their T.V., video games and so on.  Learning is pushed to the way side.  Many Canadian kids cannot even locate Ottawa, their country's capital, on the map.

 

[IronDuke]

Wow. That's got to be the best post I've seen on these forums in a LONG time Genghis. Seriously, wow. You win today's cookie.

 

[DeadlySinner]

Perun said:
Nobody says that the EU means giving up cultural identity. The motto of the EU is United in diversity.

Is this not how the US started? 'The salad bowl'. In long terms, it does indeed mean giving up cultural identity.

 

[Anonymous]

Perun said:
Nobody says that the EU means giving up cultural identity. The motto of the EU is United in diversity.

Is this not how the US started? 'The salad bowl'. In long terms, it does indeed mean giving up cultural identity.

Uhm, no it isn't. The thirteen states had a common identity to begin with.

 

[IronDuke]

Uhm, no it isn't. The thirteen states had a common identity to begin with.

Not really Per. Language and the shared experience of fighting Britain was pretty much the only thing they had in common. The history of government, settlement, economy, religiosity, and cultural/ethnic composition varied just as much as any two European states.
Massachusetts:
Settled by religious fanatics
Governed mostly by local "town hall" type councils
Maritme-based trade economy with te Caribbean, Europe, and BNA
Became more tolerant of different religious faiths over time
Primarialy settled by people from the Home Counties and Northern Ireland (in the 18th C., that is)

Virginia:
Settled by people looking to make a quick buck
Slavery was huge, molded every facet of dialy life for blacks AND whites
Agrarian-based economy, exporting tobacco (so much that they rarely grew enough food)
Became more segregated and untolerant of differences (religious, racial, etc)
Primarialy settled by Africans (unwillingly) and plantation owners from the West Country.


The other 11 original states had equally different cultural make ups.

 

[Natalie]

@Genghis Khan: Wow, that has got to be one of the best posts ever. I completely agree with your statement and think that it was really unbiased (not in favor of one camp of the other) and summarized this thread really well. However, I don't really understand what you mean by this sentence:

I have no sympathy and I am completely in disagreement with those people who believe America "is ignorant" in its domestic policies of wanting more freedom and bash America because they believe in philosophies like "rags to riches".

Could you elaborate on this? (Like, who is 'they'?)

P.S. Have a praise.

 

[Urizen]

The history of government, settlement, economy, religiosity, and cultural/ethnic composition varied just as much as any two European states.

Maybe, but the time span in which these differences existed was much shorter for American states than it is among European ones, therefore making it possible for them(American states) to unite with relative ease.
European countries have centuries long history of being different from each other in many aspects.