Europeans are stupid
- Thread starter IronDuke
- Start date
Onhell said:
I was thinking more in terms of geographical size - land area, that is. If it's reasonable to think that people should know 24 divisions of an area the size of Europe, then knowing the divisions of large areas like the US or Canada makes equal sense.
In terms of size, French provinces are more akin to US counties. And no, I wouldn't expect anyone to know US counties.
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Anonymous
Guest
European countries and US States are a bit different from each other. I'm talking about such petty factors as language, culture, history, religion, social system... Pure geographical area does not play any role here. They are a bit more than administrative divisions.
Perun said:
Per, be serious here. There are HUGE differences between different parts of the USA, just as there are in Germany. Compare the languages, cultures, and histories of the following places:
Northern Maine
San Antonio, Texas
South Carolina
Harlem, New York
the Upper Penninsula of Michigan
San Andreas Valley, California
Appalacia
They all speak dialects of English and have the same flag (some still prefer the Confederate one...), but their hstories, cultures, foods, even diction is completely different. If they spoke different languages you'd swear you were different parts of the world. You're speaking with the suppositions and conceptions of an outsider. It'd be as if I said Bavaria, Holstein, Salzburg, and Tirol were essentially the same because they all speak German. You have to appreciate the subtlties of the geographical and historical differences, how they interact with one another, and what kind of people they have produced.
Technically, all 50 of the states are autonomous entities which, much like those in the EU, have agreed to pool their resources in certain matters (embodied by the federal government). This was, I'll admit, proven to be untrue in practice during a minor disagreement in the 1860s.
I'll admit, Canada is much more culturally homogenous than the USA (excepting the French-English thing). But even here in the English provinces, it'd be fallicious to say that they're culturally identical. (One thesis has it that there are 6 basic socio-geographic regions here...I'm not sure I buy it entirely)
Just remember that just because you, an outsider, can't iimmediately see the cultures of the USA doesn't mean they don't exist. What you see of America is what comes to you via the lenses of European bias. America isn't just the way the European (and American) media depicts it.
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Anonymous
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I never said the US states aren't different, but they are not independent political entities, and their cultures are more alike than those of Spain and Estonia.
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Anonymous
Guest
Duke, I would advise you to go to Spain and then to Estonia.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Sorry Duke, but I have to agree with Perun here. I may be a little off, but from what I gather, Perun is a "Big Picture" kinda guy and you are a "details" kinda guy. Because in the big picture, everybody in the U.S speaks English and is subject to the federal government and the great majority are some denomination of Christianity, mostly protestant. In Europe each country has, for the most part (there are like six nations that speak German or some form thereof) their own language, cultural identity and while western europe is mostly catholic/protestan, eastern europe opts for Orthodox christianity. Ask a Californian what he identifies himself as and he will most likely say "an american" just like a Texan, or New Yorker... not so in Europe.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
Onhell said:
Let me get into this...
Onhell, it is a GREAT generalization and a common mistake to assume that eastern Europe can be said to "opt for Orthodox christianity". Poland, Czech Rep., Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia are predominantly Catholic Christian. Even Ukraine has large Catholic influences. There is also an Islamic influence particularly in Bosnia and Bulgaria.
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Anonymous
Guest
Maybe that's why they are usually referred to as Central Europe.Genghis Khan said:
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Anonymous
Guest
JackKnife said:There is no difference, McDonald's stuff never changes. Anybody knows that Perun!
In Budapest, they sell Schnitzel Burgers, something I've never seen here
Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and Belgium all have German as at least one of its official languages. The German minority in Belgium is very small, and the main language in Luxembourg is actually Letzebuergsch (which you may want to pass as a German dialect, but it really isn't). Apart from that, you can ask any German who went to Switzerland, me included, if they understood the dialect they speak there, and for the most part they will say "no". I'm not saying it's a different language, but it is a dialect that developed differently from all others spoken in Germany or Austria.
Because they're not minor factors in a social identity; they're really the only things which really differentiate one group of people from another. It's as if you were to say Mexico, Bolivia, and Argentina were essentially the same because thye all speak Spanish. (An imperfect analogy, but still...)
Allan Pred and Clifford Geertz, philosophers, have postulated that beyond language and dialect there is actually no way of determining anything about the past or present. I really can't be bothered to fully explain their theories, but to boil it down to a general maxim:
Nothing exists outside of discourse, and language is the site of history's enactment.
That IS the bigger picture. It's the embodiment of postmodernity and the pursuant crises in thought which plagued the 1990's. This thread, by the way, is out of control
Allan Pred and Clifford Geertz, philosophers, have postulated that beyond language and dialect there is actually no way of determining anything about the past or present. I really can't be bothered to fully explain their theories, but to boil it down to a general maxim:
Nothing exists outside of discourse, and language is the site of history's enactment.
That IS the bigger picture. It's the embodiment of postmodernity and the pursuant crises in thought which plagued the 1990's. This thread, by the way, is out of control
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
IronDuke said:
Well... yes, they are all part of Latin America, they all speak spanish, they are all mostly catholic and they were all conquered by the spanish and it is this commonality that differentiates them, not from each other but from Anglo-America (U.S and Canada). What REALLY differentiates them is their native populations, I think Latin America is unique in that respect.
I agree they are important, but not THE key factors, again, someone from California and a New Yorker are Americans at the end of the day.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
Serratia said:
This is an important point, Serratia. It brings me to a question about demarcation of European-ness and regionality I've wanted to mention before. There are different ways to separate Europe in regions. Some people do not bother with the "Central" Europe demarcation; to them it is either "North, South, West or East". The main issue with using "Central" is that it is unclear what to use as the basis.
I used the old East vs West political criteria, which is biased, I know, but it is what many still use. Using the above demarcation, however, the catholic countries I mentioned can be separated into either East or South.
This brings me to the actual demarcation of Europe. Going by traditional definitions Europe is separated from Asia by the Ural Mts., the Caspian Sea, the Caucasus Mts., the Black Sea, and Bosporus and the Dardanelles. However, geographically it is more appropriate to refer to the continent as Eurasia.
I don't think I would be the first person to say that cultural reasons are the chief reasons for separating Europe and Asia.
IronDuke said:This thread, by the way, is out of control
Really? You think!
Let's make this thread into "everything you wanted to discuss about Europe but where afraid to bring up".
Genghis Khan said:
All right then, I'll say it: I think "The Final Countdown" is a terrible song.
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Anonymous
Guest
SinisterMinisterX said:All right then, I'll say it: I think "The Final Countdown" is a terrible song.
Bah! Objection! The Final Countdown is a wonderful song.
And for the record, so is Rock The Night and Carrie...
