European Politics
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Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
All due respect, but I'm convinced anyone who unironically blames "political correctness" for the problems we are facing globally does not have a coherent argument and is just throwing words around based on their feelings.
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Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
It isn't. It's Elon Musk stirring up shite against the government because he's bankrolling a far-right party led by a former neo-nazi who want to be legitimate opposition.
Azas
Exciter
And when police or government hides statistics due it's nature from the public eye, what You call it? You certainly could call it 'pc'
(And it's not about UK. I think this trend was in Sweden or Germany.)
Again, I am not living in GB and do not know what to think of it. And I am starting to hate Musk proactively, regardless, because he uses his power in a very dirty way.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
It shows, as you basically are talking out of your arse.
Nothing against you, but the amount of disinformation you take as an accurate reflection of what is really going on in some places is worrying.
Azas
Exciter
Man, I just raised a question. My sentence was "if it's true.." I have no power to fast fact check this, I have no access to UK's crime archives.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
That's the thing. It is not true. Period. Entertaining blatantly false or wrong scenarios for the sole purpose of pushing your viewpoing is a form of strawmanning. Not only that, it still has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with what you call "pc".
When I was younger the adults used to say "don't believe everything you read on the internet". It seems we need to bust out that piece of advice more often.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
You could talk about PC and leftist group think in Sweden - TEN YEARS AGO, and even then it was on decline.
(Now, the group think is blatantly hard right, public discourse far less "PC", where now the complete opposite is completely normal; the new "PC" is to adopt different degrees of xenophobic, quasi-authoritarian, nationalist and hard-line talking points. Talks of liberties, human rights and caring is like, so far removed from de-facto parliament politics that it's kind of anti-PC at this point - talking about applying different degrees of repressive policy is the new normal. The transition, and how fast it happened, is wild).
So once again, stop arm-chair guessing stuff.
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Meliegree
Evening The Odds.
The basic problem is the definition of 'good' or 'bad'. No bad person thinks of themselves as a 'bad' person. Everyone is susceptible to propaganda, young age is not a decisive factor here. The problem is that social media distracts young people from education, actively weakening the community.
Adults, on the other hand, are just as susceptible to the message. The first mistake people make is believing that they are immune to propaganda.
The only way to limit the negative impact of social media is through broad legislative and behavioral changes in general population.
Social media are programmed to maximize the time spent on them - negative content and content from our information bubble work perfectly here, so in fact fighting a platform like tiktok, youtube or facebook is fighting the core of human psychology.
Platforms detect that people react to 'stupid' videos so they show more of them. They also detect that we are eager to react to content that polarizes society and also strive to escalate this content on our profiles. I'm 99% sure that Tik Tok algorithm is different in China and rest of the world.
However, people generally believe that these are planned actions, i.e. that Tik Tok intentionally shows us stupid videos, which is not entirely true - Tik Tok is only a mirror of what caused our reaction (time spent watching the content, time spent watching the thumbnail, reactions, comments [including such as 'stupid video'] etc.]). On Facebook you will see post if this post is engaging to other people with similar psychographic profile as you, creator has history of creating engaging posts, post is type of content you usually click on (i.e. photo or video) and was posted rescently. As you see - fighting with system like that is quite hard.
I believe that only real way to fight it is to minimize the number of reactions. Considering the psychology of the crowd - a law requiring that the number of views or likes under the video / comments to be private and visible only to video author could significantly reduce the influence of the platforms (it is proven that if users don't see how many likes etc. given piece of content gets they engage with it less).
But let's not forget that these platforms are not the only ones. Newspapers, TV etc. are also used in propaganda.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Great post, thank you.
UpTheIrons
Ancient Mariner
Musk is piping up about these things for his own cynical and self-serving reasons, but I am in the Uk and the court transcripts, inquiries, police reports etc. are available online for all to see. Truly depraved atrocities were excused and extremely vulnerable people were let down by the authorities that should have protected them for reasons of what could broadly be called 'political correctness'.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
It seems Maiden got it right on the final song off Seventh Son of a Seventh Son:
www.theguardian.com
Jean-Marie Le Pen, French far-right leader, dies aged 96
Former paratrooper led National Front party for decades and courted controversy, being repeatedly fined for contesting crimes against humanity
www.theguardian.com
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Fascism is on the rise globally, looking to repeat the mistakes from the last century. Populist and far right parties all over the world are promising their voters unrealistic dreams that are all but impossible to achieve, are voted into power and then just end up clinging to power and making the rich richer, while actively hurting the interests of the constituents who voted for them in the first place.
The wealthiest are exploiting the systems and their power to become even wealthier while more and more people are slipping into poverty.
The obscene amount of consumption enabled by late stage capitalism and the ceaseless strive for endless growth is actively destroying our planet. Every year sees more people die to the effects of climate change, while many more are unable to continue living in their homelands, forcing them to abandon everything they've ever known and loved, to become refugees and to flee to foreign countries in the hope of escaping certain death. At the same time we fail to meet any of the mitigating scenarios and end up making things worse and worse with each year.
We have madmen leading regimes and invading sovereign countries. We had world leaders spreading baseless and provably wrong conspiracies during a global pandemic eroding the trust in medicine and science, while millions of people were suffering and dying. We are going to see further medical emergencies and we are even worse equipped to deal with them this time around.
And I'm supposed to believe that "political correctness is a suicide"? That all the complex issues humanity is facing are to blame on one little, if meaningless, buzzword or phrase? I'm sorry, but no. Not calling people with darker complexions the n word or other racially charged slurs is not to blame for the woes of the world. Nor is refusing to dehumanize immigrants and refugees, portraying them as filth, sub-human or describing them with phrases like "poisoning the blood of our nation".
What happened to human dignity, common decency and plain old respect? It's not the end of the world to respect another person's gender identity, is it? Just use the name and pronouns they tell you, like you would with any other person too. I'm not gonna go to my coworker who is called John and tell him "nah, you look like a Kevin to me, I'll call you Kevin from now on"; that'd be a dick move. We have a member here (forgive me for not remembering, I think it might've been Forostar) who explained in another thread that he's called Benjamin and hates being called Ben, Benny and the like. It's not difficult to respect that stance. The principle remains the same when talking about trans individuals. Hell, you don't have to understand them and what they're going through, the topic is admittedly complicated. But don't make their lives actively worse (the amount of hate crimes against LGBTQ individuals in the last handful of years has risen drastically; the amount of anti-trans legislation being introduced in the US for example is entirely disproportionate to the impact the trans community could ever have). Life is complicated and difficult enough for everyone already, no reasons to fight amongst ourselves while the rich are robbing us blind and laughing to the bank.
To summarize: I cannot take the argument serious that political correctness is to blame for our current situation. That sounds like desparate scape goating to me, to find an easy explanation to a complicated series of problems. I'd rather live in a time where we get a bad Ghost Busters movie with an all-female cast trying to pander to progressives every few years, or where you might have to ponder for a second how you are going to address your gay or trans coworker, than to live in times where gay people were chemically castrated (look what happened to Alan Turing, one of the most brilliant minds of the last century, for the "sin" of being homosexual) or where African Americans were lynched in broad daylight.
The wealthiest are exploiting the systems and their power to become even wealthier while more and more people are slipping into poverty.
The obscene amount of consumption enabled by late stage capitalism and the ceaseless strive for endless growth is actively destroying our planet. Every year sees more people die to the effects of climate change, while many more are unable to continue living in their homelands, forcing them to abandon everything they've ever known and loved, to become refugees and to flee to foreign countries in the hope of escaping certain death. At the same time we fail to meet any of the mitigating scenarios and end up making things worse and worse with each year.
We have madmen leading regimes and invading sovereign countries. We had world leaders spreading baseless and provably wrong conspiracies during a global pandemic eroding the trust in medicine and science, while millions of people were suffering and dying. We are going to see further medical emergencies and we are even worse equipped to deal with them this time around.
And I'm supposed to believe that "political correctness is a suicide"? That all the complex issues humanity is facing are to blame on one little, if meaningless, buzzword or phrase? I'm sorry, but no. Not calling people with darker complexions the n word or other racially charged slurs is not to blame for the woes of the world. Nor is refusing to dehumanize immigrants and refugees, portraying them as filth, sub-human or describing them with phrases like "poisoning the blood of our nation".
What happened to human dignity, common decency and plain old respect? It's not the end of the world to respect another person's gender identity, is it? Just use the name and pronouns they tell you, like you would with any other person too. I'm not gonna go to my coworker who is called John and tell him "nah, you look like a Kevin to me, I'll call you Kevin from now on"; that'd be a dick move. We have a member here (forgive me for not remembering, I think it might've been Forostar) who explained in another thread that he's called Benjamin and hates being called Ben, Benny and the like. It's not difficult to respect that stance. The principle remains the same when talking about trans individuals. Hell, you don't have to understand them and what they're going through, the topic is admittedly complicated. But don't make their lives actively worse (the amount of hate crimes against LGBTQ individuals in the last handful of years has risen drastically; the amount of anti-trans legislation being introduced in the US for example is entirely disproportionate to the impact the trans community could ever have). Life is complicated and difficult enough for everyone already, no reasons to fight amongst ourselves while the rich are robbing us blind and laughing to the bank.
To summarize: I cannot take the argument serious that political correctness is to blame for our current situation. That sounds like desparate scape goating to me, to find an easy explanation to a complicated series of problems. I'd rather live in a time where we get a bad Ghost Busters movie with an all-female cast trying to pander to progressives every few years, or where you might have to ponder for a second how you are going to address your gay or trans coworker, than to live in times where gay people were chemically castrated (look what happened to Alan Turing, one of the most brilliant minds of the last century, for the "sin" of being homosexual) or where African Americans were lynched in broad daylight.
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Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
Well said. Fascism really is on the rise once again and I'm terrified at how many people openly embrace it (or deny it). But that's probably what people were saying in 1933.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Azas
Exciter
Far right is rising because on one hand enemy's (mainly russia) propaganda and influence is working over time. On the other hand Europe's immigration politics must be reviewed and become much stricter. Nothing against immigrants per se, but one cannot infuse society with many people of completely different culture and beliefs and expect that there will be no problems. If governments will ignore this, radicals may come to power.
Personally, I have no problems with immigrant's skin color. But if his culture is hostile towards me, if he treats women like lesser beings and if he's using his religion as a vehicle for extremism, then I will not sugarcoat things. Such people should be deported.
Personally, I have no problems with immigrant's skin color. But if his culture is hostile towards me, if he treats women like lesser beings and if he's using his religion as a vehicle for extremism, then I will not sugarcoat things. Such people should be deported.
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I honestly think the attitude to immigrants doesn't start with such grand ideals. The average white thug around here treats women like subordinate weaklings who should fangirl around musclebound goons like them, and treats football as a vehicle for extremism. They just don't like the idea that they might not be the overwhelmingly dominant majority and top dog. Hence they hate sections of society like toffs, students, women/older people/LGBT/disabled people who don't 'know their place', actual religious Christians, people from other parts of the British Isles, and more than anything the people from the next town along. Their attitude to anyone non-English, non-White, non-Christian and especially any large cultural group outside their own is the one thing that unifies them with the thugs from the other towns.
Radicals are coming to power partly because of social media and propaganda from a variety of sources, and partly because a heck of a lot of people lash out and look to form mobs when their norms change. Norms change very quickly thanks to the connectedness of the modern world.
Radicals are coming to power partly because of social media and propaganda from a variety of sources, and partly because a heck of a lot of people lash out and look to form mobs when their norms change. Norms change very quickly thanks to the connectedness of the modern world.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Another big part is social injustice, which in turn though, gets amplified when large groups of immigrants enter the country and society in short time, as many get stuck in the lower economic tier and don't receive enough help and incentive to functionally integrate into the workforce. Starting over in a new country is hard. Sweden started 20 years ago to apply Reagonomics, expedited the rate of privatizations (that in turn took shape 10 years earlier, and functionally invested less in welfare. Add to that a large surge of immigrants then that does create problems, because tax cuts are more important than to put the money in to make things work. The economic/social inequality has grown at staggering rates here, all the while homes have become very expensive to purchase, in conjunction with low interest rates and no property tax which has caused everybody to go heavily into debt to buy homes (as public rentals have in part been converted, and not enough new rental apartment buildings have been constructed).
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
@Brigantium made the same point but you're basically describing Christian White Nationalists here. The same angry men who are cheering on Trump/Musk in the US and Farage/Robinson over here.
I don't doubt that some immigrants bring their backwards shit with them but let's not pretend that most of the problems don't start at home.
And bear in mind now that Syria seems to be calming down you might see a reduction in immigration when their refugees start returning.
Agreed. Let's deport Nigel Farage first. I'll even help him onto the plane.
He got egged out of Scotland didn't he?
