Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
"No, you may not blow this thread up."
European Politics
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
Cornfed Hick
Ancient Mariner
An excerpt from today's NYTimes article about the verdict, in response to Perun's question about reaction within Russia:
So, while there are no doubt supporters of the government's position, there is some fairly high-profile dissent going on, which is good. This case is really an outrage. Hopefully this effort to squash political dissent (by labeling it hooliganism and a religious hate crime) backfires.
The case has become a touchstone in the political conflict that began in Russia after disputed parliamentary elections last December. That is partly because of the sympathetic appearance of the defendants — two are mothers of young children — partly because their group uses music to carry its message, and because it has pitted them against a united power-structure: the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church.
As the judge read the lengthy verdict, hundreds of demonstrators had gathered outside the courthouse and shouted, “Free Pussy Riot!”
Riot police officers arrested dozens of them, including the former chess champion Garry Kasparov, who is active in the Russian political opposition. Mr. Kasparov fought with the police and appeared to be beaten as he was bundled into a police vehicle.
So, while there are no doubt supporters of the government's position, there is some fairly high-profile dissent going on, which is good. This case is really an outrage. Hopefully this effort to squash political dissent (by labeling it hooliganism and a religious hate crime) backfires.
Here's my thoughts on this:
Putin has always had a very high approval rating in Russia, sometimes artificially so due to the state control of the press. Whenever there has been a government fuckup, Putin sacrifices a close minister, that person takes the fall, and Putin is seen as a strict ruler - which Russians like. They cheered, for instance, when the Putin gov't imprisoned Mikhail Khodorkovsky for tax evasion for 20 years and broke up Yukos. European football fans will be familiar with the arrival of one Roman Abramovich into European football's ownership in 2003 - Abramovich was essentially exiled by Putin.
The Pussy Riot case shores up Putin's approval with the religious and with men, but it will cost him a lot of female support - an area where he was always having high approval rates. Garry Kasparov, I am glad to hear, is present at the case (if beaten) - he is a high profile Russian that just can't disappear, as many have under the Putin regime, and has been a centrepiece of political action before. In the end, though, it's going to be difficult for any political action to break the alliance between the ROC and the Putin government. 63% of Russians are Orthodox, most actually worship as there is little social stigma to not being a member of the Church - and most importantly, those 63% are ethnic Russians living in Russia. They are the concentration of wealth and political power. Anyone who has money/power and isn't Orthodox is either non-denominational Christian or an atheist. It's going to be tough to break that alliance.
In addition, internal Russian media will not hover on the Pussy Riot case. By tomorrow, it'll be gone from the state media, and before long, from the other major news outlets. There is little freedom of the press in Russia. We'll watch from the outside, but it will take repeated actions of similarly brave people for this style of freedom of speech to become accepted. It makes me very, very happy I live where I live.
Putin has always had a very high approval rating in Russia, sometimes artificially so due to the state control of the press. Whenever there has been a government fuckup, Putin sacrifices a close minister, that person takes the fall, and Putin is seen as a strict ruler - which Russians like. They cheered, for instance, when the Putin gov't imprisoned Mikhail Khodorkovsky for tax evasion for 20 years and broke up Yukos. European football fans will be familiar with the arrival of one Roman Abramovich into European football's ownership in 2003 - Abramovich was essentially exiled by Putin.
The Pussy Riot case shores up Putin's approval with the religious and with men, but it will cost him a lot of female support - an area where he was always having high approval rates. Garry Kasparov, I am glad to hear, is present at the case (if beaten) - he is a high profile Russian that just can't disappear, as many have under the Putin regime, and has been a centrepiece of political action before. In the end, though, it's going to be difficult for any political action to break the alliance between the ROC and the Putin government. 63% of Russians are Orthodox, most actually worship as there is little social stigma to not being a member of the Church - and most importantly, those 63% are ethnic Russians living in Russia. They are the concentration of wealth and political power. Anyone who has money/power and isn't Orthodox is either non-denominational Christian or an atheist. It's going to be tough to break that alliance.
In addition, internal Russian media will not hover on the Pussy Riot case. By tomorrow, it'll be gone from the state media, and before long, from the other major news outlets. There is little freedom of the press in Russia. We'll watch from the outside, but it will take repeated actions of similarly brave people for this style of freedom of speech to become accepted. It makes me very, very happy I live where I live.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Judge Marina Syrova: "These three plus others... plotted together to undermine civil order, motivated by religious hatred"
... "two years deprivation of liberty in a penal colony". ...
2 years punishment camp. Disproportional.
"I am not bitter about being in jail," band member Nadezhda Tolokonnikova said in a letter posted on Twitter by her lawyer on the eve of the verdict. "But politically, I am furious," she added. "Our imprisonment serves as a clear and unambiguous sign that freedom is being taken away from the entire country."
Arrest of Kasparov: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19300149
... "two years deprivation of liberty in a penal colony". ...
2 years punishment camp. Disproportional.
"I am not bitter about being in jail," band member Nadezhda Tolokonnikova said in a letter posted on Twitter by her lawyer on the eve of the verdict. "But politically, I am furious," she added. "Our imprisonment serves as a clear and unambiguous sign that freedom is being taken away from the entire country."
Arrest of Kasparov: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19300149
German court backs eurozone's ESM bailout fund
Germany's top court has rejected calls to block the permanent eurozone rescue fund - the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) - and the European fiscal treaty. (More in link)
Any thoughts on this? It's only been the topic that has dictated European headlines all year...
German media report that all parties represented in the Bundestag are satisfied. You'll only see smiling politicians in the news these days. What is amazing however is that if you ask the people, there is almost unanimous rejection. According to one poll, 90% of all Germans are against ESM support. Opinions range from "our grandchildren's grandchildren will still be busy paying off the debt" to "this is the end of democracy" to "there will be war within the next few years". There are federal elections here next year, and frustration with all the established parties is abundant.
I don't think I have enough insight to or knowledge of the topic to form a qualified opinion myself, but I still thought I might carry this here.
Germany's top court has rejected calls to block the permanent eurozone rescue fund - the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) - and the European fiscal treaty. (More in link)
Any thoughts on this? It's only been the topic that has dictated European headlines all year...
German media report that all parties represented in the Bundestag are satisfied. You'll only see smiling politicians in the news these days. What is amazing however is that if you ask the people, there is almost unanimous rejection. According to one poll, 90% of all Germans are against ESM support. Opinions range from "our grandchildren's grandchildren will still be busy paying off the debt" to "this is the end of democracy" to "there will be war within the next few years". There are federal elections here next year, and frustration with all the established parties is abundant.
I don't think I have enough insight to or knowledge of the topic to form a qualified opinion myself, but I still thought I might carry this here.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Sounds like increasing anti-Europe atmosphere to me. I am glad that this didn't shine through in yesterday's Dutch elections. Wilders did his utmost best with his ravings but he failed tremendously.
Can't judge well how bad this will be for the German people, but we all need to contribute to keep (the) Euro(pe) stable.
Can't judge well how bad this will be for the German people, but we all need to contribute to keep (the) Euro(pe) stable.
Well, the analysis on the page I linked to pretty much hits the mark judging from my observation:
It is increasingly difficult to communicate to the population why Germany should come up with even more billions to feed corrupt banks in southern Europe. The money is missing at home, Germany has been in a recession since 1989. At first I shrugged all this off as tabloid hate, but I am seeing an increasing amount of intelligent and critical people sharing these opinions. Everybody knows the money is not helping the people in Greece. They're the ones suffering the most from their government's mismanagement and short-sightedness. The question I see asked the most is, why should German taxpayers support keeping up a system that is a known failure and can only be kept alive artificially for so long, if it seems like everything is breaking apart in Germany? German schools and universities suffer from a lack of funding and the education system is somewhere in the midfield in European rankings. That's a long fall for a country that once valued education as its highest resource and was admired worldwide for it. The number of working poor in the country is increasing by the hour, yet the funds that should go in a proper and social employment market are donated to Greek banks. The way an increasing amount of Germans see it, EU and Euro are doing nothing to benefit the country, and everything to destabilise it, and to sow disunity among the countries of Europe.
It is increasingly difficult to communicate to the population why Germany should come up with even more billions to feed corrupt banks in southern Europe. The money is missing at home, Germany has been in a recession since 1989. At first I shrugged all this off as tabloid hate, but I am seeing an increasing amount of intelligent and critical people sharing these opinions. Everybody knows the money is not helping the people in Greece. They're the ones suffering the most from their government's mismanagement and short-sightedness. The question I see asked the most is, why should German taxpayers support keeping up a system that is a known failure and can only be kept alive artificially for so long, if it seems like everything is breaking apart in Germany? German schools and universities suffer from a lack of funding and the education system is somewhere in the midfield in European rankings. That's a long fall for a country that once valued education as its highest resource and was admired worldwide for it. The number of working poor in the country is increasing by the hour, yet the funds that should go in a proper and social employment market are donated to Greek banks. The way an increasing amount of Germans see it, EU and Euro are doing nothing to benefit the country, and everything to destabilise it, and to sow disunity among the countries of Europe.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Perhaps not directly, but in the end it is needed to take measurements, to make the country more stable.
This question is asked by anti-Europe sceptics in my country as well. The answer is:
A: Our countries should not be exceptions.
B: If things go worse in Greece, Germany will feel that the most.
http://www.europeanstrategist.eu/2012/03/germany-and-the-crisis-of-the-periphery/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielf...tes-germans-shouldnt-cheer-for-an-eu-pullout/
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...-mark-blyth/why-only-germany-can-fix-the-euro
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/21/germany-greece-greek-debt-crisis
http://www.spiegel.de/international...bt-transgressor-of-20th-century-a-769703.html
http://www.uni-muenster.de/imperia/...sovereign_debt_crisis_is_germany_to_blame.pdf
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I've just learnt that I do not need to be afraid for nuclear disasters.
(roughly translated by yours truly)
IAEA: Netherlands nuclear security in order
After extensive investigation by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) it seems that nuclear power plants and other nuclear installations in the Netherlands meet all requirements for security.
Minister of Economic Affairs, Agriculture and Innovation Maxime Verhagen is satisfied with the investigation: 'The Netherlands meet the existing requirements and want to introduce the latest requirements when it comes to security. Safety at nuclear power plants must come first. "
The IAEA recommends to include the latest international safety regulations in the Dutch legislation.
IAEA visited the Dutch nuclear installations 4 times, between 2005 and 2012. The Netherlands are the first Western European country in which the IAEA has completed their string of visits.
(roughly translated by yours truly)
IAEA: Netherlands nuclear security in order
After extensive investigation by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) it seems that nuclear power plants and other nuclear installations in the Netherlands meet all requirements for security.
Minister of Economic Affairs, Agriculture and Innovation Maxime Verhagen is satisfied with the investigation: 'The Netherlands meet the existing requirements and want to introduce the latest requirements when it comes to security. Safety at nuclear power plants must come first. "
The IAEA recommends to include the latest international safety regulations in the Dutch legislation.
IAEA visited the Dutch nuclear installations 4 times, between 2005 and 2012. The Netherlands are the first Western European country in which the IAEA has completed their string of visits.
Hague Tribunal is a joke... Ramush Haradinaj acquitted of all charges cause almost all witnesses that were supposed to testify against him were either dead or too scared to testify. And there are even videos of him performing executions. There's no justice in the world...
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Which videos? And they were part of the trial?
I can't guarantee it's 100% true... It was supposedly shown on TV few years ago (it's super graphic so no wonder I can't find it on YouTube) at least. Him and his soldiers lining up civilians off the road etc. Again, I'm not sure if it's true.
Though he did write in his autobiography that him and his army used to kill people (cops, civilians, soldiers) daily during the war. 19 witnesses that were supposed to witness against him died, though apparently none of them were killed. There was a book/interview with him where he confessed the crimes, though it was written and released before he got indicted for war crimes.
Though he did write in his autobiography that him and his army used to kill people (cops, civilians, soldiers) daily during the war. 19 witnesses that were supposed to witness against him died, though apparently none of them were killed. There was a book/interview with him where he confessed the crimes, though it was written and released before he got indicted for war crimes.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2012&mm=11&dd=29&nav_id=83404
A bit more about him.
A bit more about him.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
In 1989 he left Yugoslavia under a false name, and headed for Switzerland. There he became a night club bouncer, and also joined an organization that will later become the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). When he returned to the country nine years later, in 2008,
Err, that should be 1998?
I also just read this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20536318
Err, that should be 1998?
I also just read this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20536318