European Politics
- Thread starter Forostar
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matic22
Ancient Mariner
If he has Kiev, he can negotiate with the west then, while holding Kiev hostage. Also, Russian businessmen started to question Putin, since the Russian stock marked crashed. The only thing he said was that "there was no other choice".
If this doesn't stop soon, most of the companies might migrate abroad.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
They should. But Putin might not let them. He's a gangster and tzar crossover, why would he let them walk away. But I meant that there would be next to zero reason for the west to negotiate, that would only embolden him; Putin would rather not become a pariah though if it can be avoided, so he could throw in a few bandaids, but I guess that's about it.
So, what is there to negotiate about between Russia and NATO? Ukraine isn't part of NATO. It's the victim of a predatory empire, but it's non-aligned. Tell me, pray, what negotiations are supposed to be about.
matic22
Ancient Mariner
Not NATO. Ukraine.
There is nothing to negotiate with NATO. I think what Putin wants is that while holding Kiev hostage, Ukraine might bend over and give him what he wants (Donetsk, Lugansk, new goverment and deal that Ukraine will never join NATO). But that might last for months and we could see Sarajevo part 2. Again, it'll probably be the question of who gives up first.
Negotiations at the barrel of a gun aren't negotiations, they're demands.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
On a related note, Sweden's weapons export policy is insane. It makes no distinction between victim and aggressor. Ship the anti tanks weapons to Ukraine. Pronto. Why the hell would anybody help Sweden militarily (which our entire security doctrine is based upon) with our bizarre and contradictory neutrality policy? NATO membership- Now. Change the damn export policy, and not soon, but now, like Ukraine is asking us.
matic22
Ancient Mariner
True. I wrote it like this because I was reading that Lavrov said "we are still prepaired to negotiate, blah blah blah".
In reality it's more like... When we reach and take Kiev via Chernobyl, we will express our demands. Then we will hold Kiev until most of our demands are met.
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jazz from hell
Ancient Mariner
I think we should be careful to not cross a certain line with sanctions. I'm not against them, but the Russian stock market has already crashed 50 %. And what's more, when Swift payments were discussed in context of sanctions against Russia in 2014, Putin said that for him that would signify a declaration of war against Russia. And we don't want a hot exchange between two nuclear superpowers.
There's also been talk about trying to "re-activate" Angela Merkel, as apparently she is one of the very few politicians Putin respects, because she speaks Russian and whatnot.
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
Hopefully Xi doesn’t plan to invade Taiwan while the west’s attention is focused elsewhere.
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
Oh, it certainly can. But whether Xi recognizes that or not is an open question. Our non-response when Hong Kong’s freedoms were snuffed out a couple decades early may have emboldened him.
