Drummers topic

The sound of a piece doesn't tell you the physical requirements to play it.
Indeed. And this is why when you actually see something being played you often understand how it's played better --& therefore realise that your original estimation of how hard/easy it was, might require adjustment. Of course, when you heard it, you could have just applied your musical knowledge a little better & actually thought about what was being played. But, for guitar anyway (& as you mention, in regard to positioning), it's not always obvious where something is played, positioning-wise, etc.
 

SinisterMinisterX

Illuminatus
Staff member
It depends on your ear and your experience with guitar. I've known guitarists who can tell, purely by listening, which string is being picked - and therefore the position the guitarist is in. But every guitarist I've known with an ear like that has either gone to music school or played for 20+ years.
 
It depends on your ear and your experience with guitar. I've known guitarists who can tell, purely by listening, which string is being picked - and therefore the position the guitarist is in. But every guitarist I've known with an ear like that has either gone to music school or played for 20+ years.
Aye, there is much truth in all of that. I have a reasonably good ear (I had years of professional lessons); but, as I said, I tend to let my imagination get the better of me sometimes! :D
 

Mosh

And I should contemplate this change
Staff member
Of course that's just the rhythm section though. On guitar those songs are pretty easy and the speed isn't bad.
 

SinisterMinisterX

Illuminatus
Staff member
Back to drumming... one of my weaknesses is maintaining a proper grip. I start well, and somewhere along the line I slip into grabbing the stick in my fist like a caveman. I usually notice when I start a drum fill, which takes more work to play with bad grip (you have to reach an inch or two further to hit the drum, and that makes one notice). Maintaining a good grip is always key. Good cymbal work is impossible without it.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Something funny when you look at these photos of Clive, taken in 1980 (Judas Priest tour) by Keith Wilfort, scanned and shared by Loopy World:

When I saw this, I thought: wow his hi-hat is pretty low!


But then this:


In the first photo he's standing (I guess at the end of a song), but for some reason I didn't notice it immediately!

How high do you guys put your hi-hat?
Are their (dis)advantages with a high vs low set-up?
 

SixesAlltheway

Ancient Mariner
Nice set Lego!

Was looking at Nicko's Premier set in the Angel and the Gambler video earlier. Loaded with toms. Not a single hit.

Well, who needs big ass 80s rock drum kits. This is Ian Paice from Deep Purple with a snare, high tom, two floor toms and bass drum!

 
For the drummers out there: how good is programmed drumming now capable of sounding? The reason I ask, Buckethead is a guy with no band & has used drum machines for years, sometimes bordering on Electronica; no suggestion they are anything other than programmed drums. However, on some of his most recent releases (over the last year or so) the drumming has been sounding far more organic. I always assumed he had simply stepped up the effort to make the drumming sound better; but I've read a few other guys into programming & such saying some of the stuff sounds pretty good for programming; or at least a little too nuanced to be done quickly. (I kinda doubt this.) With time & effort is it possible to make programmed drumming sound close to real drumming (now)?
 
Last edited:

Mosh

And I should contemplate this change
Staff member
I'm not a drummer but I program drums a lot. The technology has started to sound really good. You can get programs to automatically create drum beats using samples of real drum sets/players and there are lots of specific settings like how complex/loud you want the drums to be or how many fills to do. You can even set the drums to follow a particular instrument. Most people won't even notice the difference. Doesn't take long either, it's the easiest part of the process as far as I'm concerned. You can put a little bit of reverb and EQ on it as well to help make it a bit more realistic.

I'm listening to some recent Buckethead now and it sounds like (really good) programming to me. The trick is to listen to the cymbal hits. They fade out unnaturally fast and every hit sounds the same (this is true for snares too if you trigger them but that goes for real drums anyway). Cymbals have a lot of personality from the drummer and even hi hat hits will have subtle differences. Computers can't capture that...yet.
 
I'm listening to some recent Buckethead now and it sounds like (really good) programming to me. The trick is to listen to the cymbal hits. They fade out unnaturally fast and every hit sounds the same (this is true for snares too if you trigger them but that goes for real drums anyway). Cymbals have a lot of personality from the drummer and even hi hat hits will have subtle differences. Computers can't capture that...yet.
They've really improved, haven't they? But as you say, they're just too uniform/identical sounding. Still, better than his 90's drum machine sound! :p

Mosh, not sure what "recent" you listened to (there), but he's started playing an eight-string too. Quite interesting sounding. The Pikes are coming out even quicker now...
 
Last edited:

Mosh

And I should contemplate this change
Staff member
They've really improved, haven't they? But as you say, they're just too uniform/identical sounding. Still, better than his 90's drum machine sound! :p

Mosh, not sure what "recent" you listened to (there), but he's started playing an eight-string too. Quite interesting sounding. The Pikes are coming out even quicker now...
Yea especially for metal. It's come a long way though and I look forward to seeing where the technology goes. Of course nothing will ever beat a real live drummer, but we've at least reached a point where you can get a pretty good sounding drum part from a computer.


Can't remember what song I heard but it was the most recent Pike I think. I wasn't really paying attention to the guitar but I'll have to come back to that, I'm starting to get into 8 strings so I'm definitely interested!
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Most metal drums are sampled/programmed/repaired. People are not that aware of it, but I bet that most of it is fake.

The good things about it, when making music myself: it's tight. Some of these parts I can't drum myself, so it has less limits when it comes to possibilities.
The bad things: if done well, it takes a lot of time: the more detail, the more effort. It's fake.

In my Talescape project for about half of the work I programmed drums myself, and for the rest I used sequenced parts: built in loops, from a keyboard.

The first two parts of the following song have programmed drums, the last 3 parts (starting at 08:30) have sequenced drums:
Path of the Beast (19:08)
https://myspace.com/talescape/music/song/path-of-the-beast-53294681-57604657

This next song is programmed as well:
Revel in Greatness (5:29)
https://myspace.com/talescape/music/song/revel-in-greatness-66190320-72553110

In future recordings I'd like to try to play drums myself (on an electronical kit), but I'm afraid that I can't do it tight enough. We'll see!

With time & effort is it possible to make programmed drumming sound close to real drumming (now)?
Yes. With good software, it can be done pretty quickly I guess. Especially when there is regularity and experience involved.
 
Last edited:
Can't remember what song I heard but it was the most recent Pike I think.
Pike #130 was that? :D
I wasn't really paying attention to the guitar but I'll have to come back to that, I'm starting to get into 8 strings so I'm definitely interested!
He's been detuning for years & probably playing bass with distortion sometimes too; but now he's clearly playing a seven or eight string.
In my Talescape project for about half of the work I programmed drums myself, and for the rest I used sequenced parts: built in loops, from a keyboard.

The first two parts of the following song have programmed drums, the last 3 parts (starting at 08:30) have sequenced drums:
Path of the Beast (19:08)
https://myspace.com/talescape/music/song/path-of-the-beast-53294681-57604657

This next song is programmed as well:
Revel in Greatness (5:29)
https://myspace.com/talescape/music/song/revel-in-greatness-66190320-72553110
Listening to Path of the Beast right now. There's an impressive amount of songwriting going on here...
 
Top