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Drummers topic

Discussion in 'Musicians Discussion' started by Forostar, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    Indeed. And this is why when you actually see something being played you often understand how it's played better --& therefore realise that your original estimation of how hard/easy it was, might require adjustment. Of course, when you heard it, you could have just applied your musical knowledge a little better & actually thought about what was being played. But, for guitar anyway (& as you mention, in regard to positioning), it's not always obvious where something is played, positioning-wise, etc.
  2. SinisterMinisterX

    SinisterMinisterX Illuminatus Staff Member

    It depends on your ear and your experience with guitar. I've known guitarists who can tell, purely by listening, which string is being picked - and therefore the position the guitarist is in. But every guitarist I've known with an ear like that has either gone to music school or played for 20+ years.
  3. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    Aye, there is much truth in all of that. I have a reasonably good ear (I had years of professional lessons); but, as I said, I tend to let my imagination get the better of me sometimes! :D
  4. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    Of course that's just the rhythm section though. On guitar those songs are pretty easy and the speed isn't bad.
  5. SinisterMinisterX

    SinisterMinisterX Illuminatus Staff Member

    Back to drumming... one of my weaknesses is maintaining a proper grip. I start well, and somewhere along the line I slip into grabbing the stick in my fist like a caveman. I usually notice when I start a drum fill, which takes more work to play with bad grip (you have to reach an inch or two further to hit the drum, and that makes one notice). Maintaining a good grip is always key. Good cymbal work is impossible without it.
  6. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Something funny when you look at these photos of Clive, taken in 1980 (Judas Priest tour) by Keith Wilfort, scanned and shared by Loopy World:

    When I saw this, I thought: wow his hi-hat is pretty low!

    But then this:

    In the first photo he's standing (I guess at the end of a song), but for some reason I didn't notice it immediately!

    How high do you guys put your hi-hat?
    Are their (dis)advantages with a high vs low set-up?
  7. Lego

    Lego Shadows in the stars, we will not return!

    I keep mine pretty high, but I'm over 6 feet tall, so it's more ergonomic for me that way!

    SixesAlltheway and Forostar like this.
  8. SixesAlltheway

    SixesAlltheway Yacht Rock

    Nice set Lego!

    Was looking at Nicko's Premier set in the Angel and the Gambler video earlier. Loaded with toms. Not a single hit.

    Well, who needs big ass 80s rock drum kits. This is Ian Paice from Deep Purple with a snare, high tom, two floor toms and bass drum!

    Forostar likes this.
  9. SixesAlltheway

    SixesAlltheway Yacht Rock

    Brilliant :D

    Forostar likes this.
  10. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Lego likes this.
  11. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    For the drummers out there: how good is programmed drumming now capable of sounding? The reason I ask, Buckethead is a guy with no band & has used drum machines for years, sometimes bordering on Electronica; no suggestion they are anything other than programmed drums. However, on some of his most recent releases (over the last year or so) the drumming has been sounding far more organic. I always assumed he had simply stepped up the effort to make the drumming sound better; but I've read a few other guys into programming & such saying some of the stuff sounds pretty good for programming; or at least a little too nuanced to be done quickly. (I kinda doubt this.) With time & effort is it possible to make programmed drumming sound close to real drumming (now)?
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  12. SinisterMinisterX

    SinisterMinisterX Illuminatus Staff Member

    Yes. Sampling technology and drum machines are both quite sophisticated now.
  13. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    I'm not a drummer but I program drums a lot. The technology has started to sound really good. You can get programs to automatically create drum beats using samples of real drum sets/players and there are lots of specific settings like how complex/loud you want the drums to be or how many fills to do. You can even set the drums to follow a particular instrument. Most people won't even notice the difference. Doesn't take long either, it's the easiest part of the process as far as I'm concerned. You can put a little bit of reverb and EQ on it as well to help make it a bit more realistic.

    I'm listening to some recent Buckethead now and it sounds like (really good) programming to me. The trick is to listen to the cymbal hits. They fade out unnaturally fast and every hit sounds the same (this is true for snares too if you trigger them but that goes for real drums anyway). Cymbals have a lot of personality from the drummer and even hi hat hits will have subtle differences. Computers can't capture that...yet.
  14. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    They've really improved, haven't they? But as you say, they're just too uniform/identical sounding. Still, better than his 90's drum machine sound! :p

    Mosh, not sure what "recent" you listened to (there), but he's started playing an eight-string too. Quite interesting sounding. The Pikes are coming out even quicker now...
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  15. Lego

    Lego Shadows in the stars, we will not return!


    Hitting the studio this weekend to record an album of monster progressive black metal tunes!
    JudasMyGuide, Forostar and Brigantium like this.
  16. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    Yea especially for metal. It's come a long way though and I look forward to seeing where the technology goes. Of course nothing will ever beat a real live drummer, but we've at least reached a point where you can get a pretty good sounding drum part from a computer.

    Can't remember what song I heard but it was the most recent Pike I think. I wasn't really paying attention to the guitar but I'll have to come back to that, I'm starting to get into 8 strings so I'm definitely interested!
  17. Brigantium

    Brigantium Work Geordie for hire Staff Member

    Do share the results!
  18. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Most metal drums are sampled/programmed/repaired. People are not that aware of it, but I bet that most of it is fake.

    The good things about it, when making music myself: it's tight. Some of these parts I can't drum myself, so it has less limits when it comes to possibilities.
    The bad things: if done well, it takes a lot of time: the more detail, the more effort. It's fake.

    In my Talescape project for about half of the work I programmed drums myself, and for the rest I used sequenced parts: built in loops, from a keyboard.

    The first two parts of the following song have programmed drums, the last 3 parts (starting at 08:30) have sequenced drums:
    Path of the Beast (19:08)

    This next song is programmed as well:
    Revel in Greatness (5:29)

    In future recordings I'd like to try to play drums myself (on an electronical kit), but I'm afraid that I can't do it tight enough. We'll see!

    Yes. With good software, it can be done pretty quickly I guess. Especially when there is regularity and experience involved.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  19. Lego

    Lego Shadows in the stars, we will not return!

    I will indeed! Hopefully in a couple months we'll have it all wrapped up. :)
  20. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    Pike #130 was that? :D
    He's been detuning for years & probably playing bass with distortion sometimes too; but now he's clearly playing a seven or eight string.
    Listening to Path of the Beast right now. There's an impressive amount of songwriting going on here...
    Forostar likes this.

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