He can't cover up his fraud anymore.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
I don't know, he usually sounds decent enough. Rob's voice alternated between very rough and shot all through the Nostradamus tour, but he recovered. Sounds like Labrie either has hit a really rough patch, or a temporary fall. This is fucking awful, but you know, could be just a night where they should have cancelled.
KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
He's been sounding like this for the entire AVFTTOTW tour. A noticeable step down compared to the Distance Over Time/SFAM anniversary tour, unfortunately.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Hope for a better tour next time. Rob substantially improved for the 2011 tour, and the 2010 British Steel tour was very good too.
Honestly I feel bad for him more than anything else. He’s getting old, he never fully recovered from his injury, and Petrucci keeps giving him parts that are impossible to sing consistently night to night. It would be another thing if he was writing the songs. I don’t think he’s a fraud, he just isn’t singing stuff that suits his strength.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
Dream Theater would be such a better band with a different singer - and I've been saying this for 20 years.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Nah, speaking generally, when LaBrie has good form, he is a part of their sound. In studio, I like his timbre more than Karevik's, for example.
It's a pity he's so inconsistent.
It's a pity he's so inconsistent.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
I’m the opposite. Outside of his meh Kamelot output, I’d take Tommy over LaBrie any day of the week. They both have breathy lows which work well, but Karevik lights it up in his upper range whereas LaBrie sounds like a dying bird. Tommy also has a lot more soul to his singing.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
On the surface this is a weird comparison as these guys don't sound anything alike, but they both use a lot of studio magic to make them sound good on a record and both have inconsistencies in their live performances. The difference is that Tommy's live performances are only generally inconsistent on the really hard notes (otherwise he sounds fantastic) whereas if James is off, his entire performance sounds like someone drowning a drunk bird. Karevik also plays in bands who have no shame in using a ton of backing tracks.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
You’re right - a drunk dying bird.
Spambot
Meme Lord
Mike Portnoy, is that you?
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
It was more about both "high pitched singers in prog or prog-leaning bands".
Mainly it's the whole overboosted head voice that Karevik was using in Seventh Wonder (and thankfully he doesn't do as much in Kamelot, trying to ape Khan more), but I could name also Jon Arch, Kiske (especially on Keeper, with his all off-key caterwaulings well) or even Andre Matos.
Next to them I find studio Labrie very pleasant. I know many people love it, I'm just kinda allergic to it nowadays.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Also, although my favourite epic is probably still ITPOE, I have been positively obsessed lately with Octavarium. I just can't get enough of the track and I actually always used to rate it much lower, I guess, but now it just completely clicked.
I guess you could say it kinda follows the trends of that album, with the structure and the individual parts being more simplistic and the overall approach being less technical (in fact, the instrumental part between Full Circle and Intervals might be the only example of "wankery" on the whole album), but it just works for me, in a very primal, straightforward fashion.
(Also, my kids are positively obsessed with DT in general - both the 4yo and the 2yo manage to sit and listen attentively, almost hypnotised, to a full-blown prog epic and don't make a sound. In fact, wifey found out when the elder one was about 21/2 that she can play Count of Tuscany to him several times over and he managed to sit and listen for almost an hour straight. They do appreciate a lot of other interesting music, but their affinity to the general discography of DT seems quite remarkable).
Also, I realised that although I generally really like Train of Thought, one trick pony it is, the reason that's been holding it back for me from getting higher on my list is definitely Honor Thy Father. It's the fourth heavy song in a row (I know that Sacrifice is technically a "ballad", but a significant part of it is rather heavy, so it counts, at least subjectively) and it really has nothing new to say. There's not much interesting in here, musically, the chorus is pedestrian, there's no riffing that I would be able to remember (even after literally decades of listening to DT and hearing this album what feels like hundreds of times) the spoken word interlude is completely unnecessary and obnoxious and this whole bog is 10 minutes long. Way to hurt such a great album.
And @Detective Beauregard , you are among the members here I really respect most for your musical knowledge and how well-versed you are and how well can you express yourself... but your bizarre and befuddling hatred toward the Endless Sacrifice's instrumental section is still my greatest WTF moment of this forum, years later. Nothing comes even close.
I guess you could say it kinda follows the trends of that album, with the structure and the individual parts being more simplistic and the overall approach being less technical (in fact, the instrumental part between Full Circle and Intervals might be the only example of "wankery" on the whole album), but it just works for me, in a very primal, straightforward fashion.
(Also, my kids are positively obsessed with DT in general - both the 4yo and the 2yo manage to sit and listen attentively, almost hypnotised, to a full-blown prog epic and don't make a sound. In fact, wifey found out when the elder one was about 21/2 that she can play Count of Tuscany to him several times over and he managed to sit and listen for almost an hour straight. They do appreciate a lot of other interesting music, but their affinity to the general discography of DT seems quite remarkable).
Also, I realised that although I generally really like Train of Thought, one trick pony it is, the reason that's been holding it back for me from getting higher on my list is definitely Honor Thy Father. It's the fourth heavy song in a row (I know that Sacrifice is technically a "ballad", but a significant part of it is rather heavy, so it counts, at least subjectively) and it really has nothing new to say. There's not much interesting in here, musically, the chorus is pedestrian, there's no riffing that I would be able to remember (even after literally decades of listening to DT and hearing this album what feels like hundreds of times) the spoken word interlude is completely unnecessary and obnoxious and this whole bog is 10 minutes long. Way to hurt such a great album.
And @Detective Beauregard , you are among the members here I really respect most for your musical knowledge and how well-versed you are and how well can you express yourself... but your bizarre and befuddling hatred toward the Endless Sacrifice's instrumental section is still my greatest WTF moment of this forum, years later. Nothing comes even close.
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Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
Thanks! But also... that section is bizarre. It just takes me out of the whole vibe.
You have this heartfelt, cold, empty-feeling metal ballad about a guy on the road missing his wife. Beautiful pre-chorus, then a big bombastic (if not a tad nu-metal) chorus. The riff at 4:54 is solid, and I like the eventual chaotic keyboard line above it. But then at 5:30 you can hear the beginnings of the section devolving into typical atonal Dream Theater wankery, and at 5:43 it becomes full-blown atonal Dream Theater wankery. To make matters worse, at 6:28 Jordan gets his say for some reason and adds extra layers of atonal Dream Theater wankery to a point where the song is no longer about missing your wife and all about going to the carnival with your buds while drunk out of your mind. And the carnival is in space. And you're probably high, too, because why not?
It sucks all the feeling and loneliness from the song and replaces it with classic Dream Theater out-of-left-field "my guitar is bigger than yours" fuckery. My superior edited version of the song cuts the entire section from 5:30 to 7:47, and while I don't love the section at 7:47, at 8:06 the song picks back up again and never disappoints.
I used to love Dream Theater; they're the band that got me playing a 6-string bass. Train of Thought is probably my favorite album by them. But the musical masturbation in this song is just too much considering the subject matter. The solos don't fit and reek of Petrucci going "Hey guys, we need a couple extra minutes in this emo song about me missing my wife, so... shred fest?!" Jordan: "But of course, what a novel idea!" Portnoy: "Fuck yeah bro!" Myung: " ... "
Train of Thought from best to worst:
1. In the Name of God
2. Honor Thy Father
3. Stream of Consciousness
4. This Dying Soul
5. As I Am
6. Endless Sacrifice
7. Vacant
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Thanks for the substantial reply.
There are two concerns, the thematic and musical.
As for the theme, I can't say anything more or less than as someone who is deeply affected by being for an even single night away from my wife, I can't even imagine going on tour and leaving her behind, with that I do not only find the lyrics to the song not cringy at all, but I feel the rather dark and oppressive (not to mention progressively building up in intensity) instrumental part to be also a comment of sorts, saying a lot which sometimes even the words don't.
I could go further and look at the subtext and themes beyond the mere textual significance of the song (*cough, applicability), but I won't, I just can't help but say that for what it tries to say (even musically, in this case), it says it very well, IMHO, in fact, it says it better than some other tracks by them. (Heck, Stream of Consciousness isn't much stream-of-consciousness-y at all, in fact the instrumental part of Endless Sacrifice would be more fitting for that title, but that's my next point).
I'm not sure what exactly consists of "wankery" and I feel the term is overused and abused and mainly used for "instrumental parts that I don't like" (I'm not attacking you in particular, mind). Dance of Eternity is the ultimate wankery, which has absolutely no reason to be there, but it is very beloved. The original Metropolis is pure wankery, mainly because the song just tries to show off and stops caring about any semblance of structure - and yet again, it is beloved by many.
My point is that I like to try and find out if there is anything about that individual "wankery" that contrasts it against other examples of such and makes me enjoy it.
So, for example, both the "tickle sections" on ToT - the closing minute of This Dying Soul and the similar section in In the Name of God beginning at 8:37 - might just look like meaningless noodlings where Trucci and Rudess play as fast as they can without even any particularly strong melody...
...BUT... underneath this, each time, is absolutely the sweetest, the grooviest bass section DT EVER did.
You could just concentrate on the bass in the TDS ending and groove out in a really cool swagger dance. It absolutely holds the sound together and helps me get over the fact that Trucci and Rudess have just decided to show off and helps sell the fact that this particular track ends in similarly intense way as it begins, otherwise (I mean, as for the edgy teen "cool factor", both the way TDS begins and ends rule supreme)
Just as in the ITNOG section, Myung brings out this middle-Eastern harmony (if I'm hearing it right) that not only fits the theme of the track, but again, adds some more sense to the sound and makes that part rather enjoable for me, even if many dislike it.
So, back to Endless - this section (and I'm saying this solemnly, seriously, even if off the top of my head - I might be mistaken, therere might be others) might be the smoothest, most consistently fluent passage in the whole DT discography. There are a lot of examples where they don't care particularly much about this consistency. Many prog tracks, even by them, don't make a lot of "sense" (*cough A Change of Seasons *cough - the second part, the beginning is just as fluent as ES)
To this day, hundreds of listens later, I am still fascinated at how each and every section somehow results from the previous one, harmonically, rhythmically, call/answer (or thesis/antithesis, to not overuse already overused musical terms I'm not 100 % sure I use correctly).
It just feels so ridiculously natural, with the added bonus of raising the intensity throughout, until it culminates in the insanely thrilling ascending part at 8:26 and in that final vocal section, entering in with the strained, jolting, frustrated "Over the distance..." etc.
Like I said, it reminds me of a literal stream of consciousness, of a perfect encapsulation of a wandering and frustrated mind (like one being forced to do menial things while I would rather just be joking and laughing and having philosophical conversation with my beloved) and emotionally, it is one of the greatest things DT ever could create for me.
With that in mind, that overhated 6:28 part is just a joke, an alien, a single drop of otherness, a random brain fart of silliness that kinda breaks the linearity (that would be too much) and makes some circles on the water. In fact, even thematically, what you say
is ultimately fitting. Because I've been there. Not at a carnival, not in space, not high, but... you get what I mean, right?
You could also take it as indeed a "circus" moment, a commentary on the "circus" of a tour, fans, groupies, sycophants, neon signs and air conditionings, while you would give a million, a billion dollars to be home by the fire, reading a nice book and your wife drifting off next to you.
And the King Crimson quotation at about 5:55 is just as random, but seamlessly inserted, I just love jokes like that.
Now, I know I won't magically make you like it, it's just this insane feel of fluency, of development, of progression, which I would have expected you to appreciate deeply and was indeed perplexed that you didn't.
(gee, I have this feeling that @Diesel 11 will probably love this post
)
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
I will? I haven’t even heard the song in question lol.(gee, I have this feeling that @Diesel 11 will probably love this post
