Dream Theater

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
I saw the show last Monday night from the front row in front of Petrucci. I did hear some complaints in the audience (about the set and James mostly) but I personally had a good time. James did miss some notes (see Losing Time) but he was better than I expected. Dream Theater for the most part sounded really good. Like the mix was practically perfect, shocking right? I could hear every instrument, and Petrucci’s tone was possibly the best I’ve heard from him to date. I even managed to catch a guitar pick from him at the end of the night, so that was my obvious highlight there.

Overall, my expectations were exceeded. Wish they woulda played more songs though.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2164.jpeg
    IMG_2164.jpeg
    909.2 KB · Views: 5
Collin said:
I saw the show last Monday night from the front row in front of Petrucci. I did hear some complaints in the audience (about the set and James mostly) but I personally had a good time. James did miss some notes (see Losing Time) but he was better than I expected. Dream Theater for the most part sounded really good. Like the mix was practically perfect, shocking right? I could hear every instrument, and Petrucci’s tone was possibly the best I’ve heard from him to date. I even managed to catch a guitar pick from him at the end of the night, so that was my obvious highlight there.

Overall, my expectations were exceeded. Wish they woulda played more songs though.
Click to expand...

Saw the last night in Vancouver, completely agree with you Collin, as it was my first time seeing them I'd have loved Metropolis, or any of the older songs they had been playing on the earlier legs of the tour, even if it was just 1 or 2 more.

I will say the encore was amazing.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
There are two concerns, the thematic and musical.
As for the theme, I can't say anything more or less than as someone who is deeply affected by being for an even single night away from my wife, I can't even imagine going on tour and leaving her behind, with that I do not only find the lyrics to the song not cringy at all, but I feel the rather dark and oppressive (not to mention progressively building up in intensity) instrumental part to be also a comment of sorts, saying a lot which sometimes even the words don't.
I could go further and look at the subtext and themes beyond the mere textual significance of the song (*cough, applicability), but I won't, I just can't help but say that for what it tries to say (even musically, in this case), it says it very well, IMHO, in fact, it says it better than some other tracks by them. (Heck, Stream of Consciousness isn't much stream-of-consciousness-y at all, in fact the instrumental part of Endless Sacrifice would be more fitting for that title, but that's my next point).
Click to expand...
Apologies that I never responded to this! I appreciate the thought-out reply.

I don't find the lyrics cringy; Petrucci calling it an "emo" song was more of how I thought he'd jokingly phrase it to his bandmates. I think the first half of the song (up until after the second chorus) is haunting, as is the rest of it when it picks back up with the rapid-fire guitar and keyboard harmonies before the "Over the distance..." part. But almost everything else in between just doesn't jive with me. I don't hate any of it, but I just don't think it fits the song. As you said, it is more "stream of consciousness" than anything in Stream of Consciousness.

I've missed people before - often terribly - but in those moments, never has my mind gone to the carnival that takes place in the middle of this song (or anything remotely like it). It's hard, knowing how Dream Theater operates, to think anything other than them throwing this in there for showoff tactics. But everyone is different, and if that's how you feel when you listen to it, more power to you! To me it sounds like "fight or flight," which would make more sense in a song about war or survival.

The biggest thing I dislike in the entire section is that Myung's bass completely disappears from 6:12 to 6:15. It took me a while to realize that it's there, but he plays the part in the same octave as the guitar, so it's completely buried in the mix.

JudasMyGuide said:
I'm not sure what exactly consists of "wankery" and I feel the term is overused and abused and mainly used for "instrumental parts that I don't like" (I'm not attacking you in particular, mind). Dance of Eternity is the ultimate wankery, which has absolutely no reason to be there, but it is very beloved. The original Metropolis is pure wankery, mainly because the song just tries to show off and stops caring about any semblance of structure - and yet again, it is beloved by many. My point is that I like to try and find out if there is anything about that individual "wankery" that contrasts it against other examples of such and makes me enjoy it.
Click to expand...
The Dance of Eternity is the ultimate wankery. Metropolis is, too, and it's my least favorite part of the song - but I think it flows better than Endless Sacrifice does. Most of them are not parts I dislike, but rather don't fit the song in question thematically.

JudasMyGuide said:
So, for example, both the "tickle sections" on ToT - the closing minute of This Dying Soul and the similar section in In the Name of God beginning at 8:37 - might just look like meaningless noodlings where Trucci and Rudess play as fast as they can without even any particularly strong melody...

...BUT... underneath this, each time, is absolutely the sweetest, the grooviest bass section DT EVER did.
You could just concentrate on the bass in the TDS ending and groove out in a really cool swagger dance. It absolutely holds the sound together and helps me get over the fact that Trucci and Rudess have just decided to show off and helps sell the fact that this particular track ends in similarly intense way as it begins, otherwise (I mean, as for the edgy teen "cool factor", both the way TDS begins and ends rule supreme)

Just as in the ITNOG section, Myung brings out this middle-Eastern harmony (if I'm hearing it right) that not only fits the theme of the track, but again, adds some more sense to the sound and makes that part rather enjoable for me, even if many dislike it.
Click to expand...
Oh, I love those sections, and the bass is a huge part of it. Both are definitely noodling to the upteenth degree, but I think they fit perfectly. One song is about coping with alcoholism and the other describes religious terrorists and the horrors they inflict on society. Neither of them seem as random and mish-mashed as the part in Endless Sacrifice, though. I feel that they flow much better.

JudasMyGuide said:
You could also take it as indeed a "circus" moment, a commentary on the "circus" of a tour, fans, groupies, sycophants, neon signs and air conditionings, while you would give a million, a billion dollars to be home by the fire, reading a nice book and your wife drifting off next to you.
Click to expand...
Now this definitely makes sense to me. If this is what Petrucci was going for, I get it.

JudasMyGuide said:
And the King Crimson quotation at about 5:55 is just as random, but seamlessly inserted, I just love jokes like that.
Click to expand...
Which King Crimson song does this reference? Sadly I'm not terribly familiar with them.

JudasMyGuide said:
Now, I know I won't magically make you like it, it's just this insane feel of fluency, of development, of progression, which I would have expected you to appreciate deeply and was indeed perplexed that you didn't.
Click to expand...
I don't hate it, but again, to me it sounds vastly out of place for the topic. It's somewhat comparable to the instrumental section in The Ministry of Lost Souls - a beautiful song that's about (at least on its surface) drowning and the ultimate sacrifice. Up until 7:21, the song is haunting. But from there we go into a chase scene, followed by another carnival, then the obligatory solos, and only at 10:42 do we actually return to the song. Now, I really like this section, but let's be real - it doesn't fit the song. This is how I feel about much of the middle of Endless Sacrifice.
 
Thanks for reading that and thanks for the response! I don't usually go and defense ever song I like with such a graphomaniac attack, I admit that I am rather partial to ES and I see it often somewhat dismissed or even unfairly maligned; thank you, therefore, for allowing me to present my case here. I will think more on your comments, just

Detective Beauregard said:
To me it sounds like "fight or flight," which would make more sense in a song about war or survival.
Click to expand...

"Fight or flight" is literally the official description of your reaction when you have a panic attack, that one is correctly used (I've had panic attacks, btw, so I know) - BUT, I agree that in a way it is still clunky, it feels very textbook, like something indeed taken from a psychology textbook and applied just like that, without personal experience, without further thought. Honestly, their "mental health opus magnum" SDOIT is full of these "textbook phrases" that feel rather cheesy. I don't really blame them, some lyrical clunkiness is always a risk when it comes to DT and I don't really hold them in contempt for trying to write about personal issues that other people have... but it's obvious that with the 12-step suite there was actual experience of the writer.
(though this could be also credited to the difference in wordsmithing abilities between Trucci and Portnoy - most of these clunky "textbookisms" are indeed Petrucci's - although Portnoy wrote Goodnight Kiss, of which less to be said, the better - and Portnoy could usually write better lyrics in general, even if possibly the worst lyrics on SFAM (on Home) were also written by him)

Detective Beauregard said:
Which King Crimson song does this reference? Sadly I'm not terribly familiar with them.
Click to expand...

I am convinced there's a reference to Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Pt. 2, its first minute or so.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
(though this could be also credited to the difference in wordsmithing abilities between Trucci and Portnoy - most of these clunky "textbookisms" are indeed Petrucci's - although Portnoy wrote Goodnight Kiss, of which less to be said, the better - and Portnoy could usually write better lyrics in general, even if possibly the worst lyrics on SFAM (on Home) were also written by him)
Click to expand...

Oh, BTW, the bloke may be a git, but there are three aspects of Portnoy that are sorely missed and haven't been adequately replaced

- the overall flow and structure of the songs - this must have been him, to a degree, because this became significantly worse after he was gone. I mean, look no further than at the first song of the last album - "The Alien" has a lot of good to it, but it's a musical Frankenstein of sorts, the likes of which we've possibly never seen before MP left.

- his lyrical abilities, which weren't always perfect, but consistently probably the best and least cringeworthy of them all (Goodnight Kiss, Home and some others excluded, I don't see the band leaving The Astonishing as-is if he was still in the band)

- the "edge", so to speak, the fighting spirit, the "gut" metal, instead of just the "cerebral" one. Yes, sure, sometimes overflowing into bile, even, but that's an acceptable trade-off.


Also, in a way, I'd compare with Nightwish and their situation. There are replaceable members and irreplaceable members. And it's not just about who's the songwriter or whose contributions to the band's sound are the most unique. It's also about the personal aspect, the cohesiveness of the band.

In Nightwish, although we still have Tuomas and Emppu, the band lost its cohesiveness. I may be in general too harsh on Floor (I still insist she's the "most professional nobody" the band could ever get, but I don't necessarily need to say it in front of people who love her, true), but it's not about her. The band could have managed with her, just like they managed with Anette. But they lost Jukka, they lost Marco (who was himself a substitute, but became a significant part of the band's image), they added Troy (whom I like - in theory - but he also helps the band to feel like it became the "organisation of hired professionals") and something is gone. Honestly, I kinda wonder if it wasn't about Jukka after all - sure, he got replaced by a much better drummer, he still remained in the "background" (now, tell me, how much of Angela Gossow staying in the shadows, in the background, in the managerial aspect of things worked for Arch Enemy?) and to me he was always the least visible member. But maybe he was still the one who remembered the early days. As of his leaving, the majority of people who ever played power metal in Nightwish have already left.
But Marco, too. He was signed under that sodding "open letter", right? (okay, probably not the best example, but you get what I mean)

Now, with DT there haven't been so many changes - they switched the keyboard players, who were obviously replaceable, and then they switched Portnoy, who - and I don't like writing this, I hated the "come back, MP" crowd - was not. At least to a degree. Even when they release good stuff (as they IMHO did with both the last two albums and ADTOE, which is still really high among my favourites), there's just something that feels... off about the band nowadays. As if they were a cover band.



(To go for the hat-trick, I have similar feelings about Opeth. Another band where the main capo di tutti capi remained, but 1. I actually lost count of the personnel changes a while ago, 2. their music feels unrecogniseably different from the glory days. The fact that it's your project doesn't mean, you can do whatever you want. Look at 'Arry, now there's a disciplined dictator if there ever was one :D )
 
TBH, there was a chance ever since he played on JP's album. Still very surprising.

That Photoshop image that was included in the announcement outdoes even the 2022 Iron Maiden LOTB one.
 
Last edited:
There's more to that. Portnoy was famous for doing a million things at once and spent the "time off" with his projects or playing drums for Avenged Sevenfold. So after another time off when they got together and were supposed to record a next album, he was still burned out and wanted first an indefinite hiatus, to which they said no, then 5 years, again no and so on. In the end, he has been let go.

Also what didn't help was that he had conflicts with LaBrie and probably even Myung (I think) and there was a lot of bad atmosphere at the time. It's not good if you say to media publicly that if you could have exchanged members and had a different one from the beginning, you'd do that.

From what I gather, he always was an abrasive personality and it must not have been easy to work with him in general.

However, the overwhelming emotion here IIRC (I joined somewhat later) was "fuck him and his Constant Motion".

But @Mosh is the resident expert, he'll probably know yet more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top