Dream Theater

KidInTheDark666 said:
FII has a really nice and unique atmosphere, to me it probably comes from the combination of the cover art and great production. Derek's influence is not to be underestimated either.
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Fans always complain about how it was "butchered by the studio" and that probably gives it the bad reputation, but I disagree - yeah, having Raise the Knife there would have been nice, but even as is, it is a strong album, very melodic, it has two of their greatest ballads in Hollow Years and Anna Lee and Trial of Tears is an underrated gem (and IMHO the best of their 10+ tracks pre-SFAM, bar Voices).

It is also my go-to DT album to recommend to people who are not used to metal.

People always make it seem like You Not Me sounded like Christina Aguillera or something.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
Fans always complain about how it was "butchered by the studio" and that probably gives it the bad reputation, but I disagree - yeah, having Raise the Knife there would have been nice, but even as is, it is a strong album, very melodic, it has two of their greatest ballads in Hollow Years and Anna Lee and Trial of Tears is an underrated gem (and IMHO the best of their 10+ tracks pre-SFAM, bar Voices).

It is also my go-to DT album to recommend to people who are not used to metal.

People always make it seem like You Not Me sounded like Christina Aguillera or something.
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I would've greatly preferred to have Speak to Me (a big guilty pleasure) on the album instead of maybe Anna Lee, but yeah, otherwise strongly agreed.
 
KidInTheDark666 said:
FII has a really nice and unique atmosphere, to me it probably comes from the combination of the cover art and great production. Derek's influence is not to be underestimated either.
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That is also the only album of theirs that is well produced, in my opinion. Plus Hell's Kitchen/ Lines in the Sand of course! (their best intro/song combo ever ;) )
 
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I like Falling Into Infinity too, in fact you guys reminded me to give it a spin again. There’s such good songs on it, and even the lesser ones are not nearly as bad as they are said to be. Burning My Soul, Take Away My Pain, Anna Lee - all good stuff! Kid pointed out the atmosphere being a product of the cover art and production, and I totally agree. The FII cover art always seemed to fit well with the cold, steely production. It’s certainly an interesting chapter in DT history.

Also, Images and Words would be so much more listenable with a better drum sound.
 
Agree on both counts - also, as you talk about the cover art, back when I was a DT n00b I thought the album was actually Marillion's. :D
 
And since we cannot ever have enough of lists (can we? :D), here is my ideal FII tracklist:

1. Trial of Tears
2. Burning My Soul
3. Just Let Me Breathe
4. Peruvian Skies
5. Speak To Me
6. Raise The Knife

7. New Millenium
8. Hollow Years
9. You Not Me
10. Anna Lee
11. Hell's Kitchen
12. Lines in the Sand
 
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Take away my pain is a very beautiful song. Hollow years as well. Lot of funky moments on the opening track, Burning my soul and Just let me breathe. FII have lots of nice and cool songs. And it has some good progressive turns as well.

I loved it ever since first hearing it in 2002, and it will always be one of my favorite DT albums
 
Sth2112 said:
Take away my pain is a very beautiful song. Hollow years as well. Lot of funky moments on the opening track, Burning my soul and Just let me breathe. FII have lots of nice and cool songs. And it has some good progressive turns as well.

I loved it ever since first hearing it in 2002, and it will always be one of my favorite DT albums
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The only thing I have struggled with, with TAMP, is that I discovered the live version first (on Once In a LiveTime). Therefore, the album version sounded too "Disneyish" for me, unfortunately a reproach I would make to this band much more regularly as time went on.
 
Yax said:
I love the self-titled. Enemy Inside, Bigger Picture, Looking Glass, Enigma Machine… Solid album.
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Man every time I listen to this album I really dig it and as soon as it's over I forget everything about it. I don't get it, it's not a bad album, it's really good, but for whatever reason it isn't memorable for me.
 
Is FII actually an unpopular album? I feel like the problems with it at the time were more circumstantial than anything else and Portnoy was outspoken about being unhappy about a lot of it, but I’ve never really seen it get trashed by the fans. It’s not revered like the other 90s albums but it still comes from that early classic period when the band had something to prove and were still trying things. I think Portnoy’s opinion on the album has really colored the perception, but other band members have not spoken as negatively about the experience.

For me I rate it about on par with something like A Dramatic Turn of Events - not one of their best albums but just really solid for the most part with a few of their all time best songs. I also agree that it is one of the best sounding albums.
 
Mosh said:
Is FII actually an unpopular album? I feel like the problems with it at the time were more circumstantial than anything else and Portnoy was outspoken about being unhappy about a lot of it, but I’ve never really seen it get trashed by the fans. It’s not revered like the other 90s albums but it still comes from that early classic period when the band had something to prove and were still trying things. I think Portnoy’s opinion on the album has really colored the perception, but other band members have not spoken as negatively about the experience.

For me I rate it about on par with something like A Dramatic Turn of Events - not one of their best albums but just really solid for the most part with a few of their all time best songs. I also agree that it is one of the best sounding albums.
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I don't want to mislead or mystify, but I could swear I've seen a lot of fan vitriol towards it,... I guess on the DTF, back when I frequented it?

Mainly it was about how terrible it was that the label hasn't let them do their vision and how much of an affront to common human decency You Not Me, Just Let Me Breathe and the separation of Hell's Kitchen are, how disgustingly radio these main culprits sound and so on.

I honestly haven't made it up, in fact I always thought it was ridiculously exaggerated... but then again, DTF is a huge place and how much was this coloured among the fandom by the Portnoy's assessment, I wouldn't know.
 
Mosh said:
For me I rate it about on par with something like A Dramatic Turn of Events - not one of their best albums but just really solid for the most part with a few of their all time best songs. I also agree that it is one of the best sounding albums.
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The problem with A Dramatic Turn of Events, in my opinion, is the same as Angra's with Rebirth: it contents itself with copying songs from their back catalog and caters to fan service in a way that cannot be hidden.
 
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Mosh said:
For me I rate it about on par with something like A Dramatic Turn of Events - not one of their best albums but just really solid for the most part with a few of their all time best songs. I also agree that it is one of the best sounding albums.
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The guitar sound is amazing; but that snare sound is off. They tried so hard to make it fat that it ended up sounding like a wet pillow instead.
 
Yax said:
The guitar sound is amazing; but that snare sound is off. They tried so hard to make it fat that it ended up sounding like a wet pillow instead.
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It’s funny because usually the best thing about Kevin Shirley’s productions (including Maiden) is the drum sound. But I agree it’s not my favorite thing about the album and Portnoy’s drums have sounded a lot better on other albums.

JudasMyGuide said:
I don't want to mislead or mystify, but I could swear I've seen a lot of fan vitriol towards it,... I guess on the DTF, back when I frequented it?

Mainly it was about how terrible it was that the label hasn't let them do their vision and how much of an affront to common human decency You Not Me, Just Let Me Breathe and the separation of Hell's Kitchen are, how disgustingly radio these main culprits sound and so on.

I honestly haven't made it up, in fact I always thought it was ridiculously exaggerated... but then again, DTF is a huge place and how much was this coloured among the fandom by the Portnoy's assessment, I wouldn't know.
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I found the thread that I remember having a lot of interesting insights into that album (funnily enough I’m the first responder):

Falling Into Infinity? Less meddled with than you might think

Falling Into Infinity? Less meddled with than you might think
www.dreamtheaterforums.org

Without having time to read through every post, I think it’s a mixed bag at least on that thread from 9 years ago. Clearly MP and JP experienced it differently and that reflects the fanbase as well. The changes to the band structure that came as a result of that album had less to do with the quality and more to do with band politics and Portnoy needing more control.

Imo Portnoy was off base about the Desmond Child thing. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity for JP to be invited to work with a massive hit songwriter. He would’ve been a fool to turn that down. Plus iirc all they did was work on lyrics and maybe structure. It’s not a great song to begin with.

The two disc FII is interesting because Portnoy pumps it up as the “definitive” version of the album but almost all the changes made on the final album and songs cut were the correct choices. I would’ve dropped a couple songs for Raise the Knife, but otherwise the right calls were made for that album. Ironically, the weakest songs on the album are the ones Portnoy wrote lyrics for.
 
Mosh said:
It’s funny because usually the best thing about Kevin Shirley’s productions (including Maiden) is the drum sound.
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I completely disagree, that's absolutely the worst thing about his productions and the thing that bothers me the most. He got it right on BNW, and AMOL&D wasn't mastered so he couldn't ruin it, but he got it wrong on every other album.
 
Night Prowler said:
I completely disagree, that's absolutely the worst thing about his productions and the thing that bothers me the most. He got it right on BNW, and AMOL&D wasn't mastered so he couldn't ruin it, but he got it wrong on every other album.
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L take from you. Nicko's drumming across the band's 21st century work has sounded incredibly massive, The Book of Souls in particular it worked right into the ancient Mayan vibes.
 
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