Dream Theater

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Mosh said:
they've had their fair share of copying other bands but the band they copy the most is Iron Maiden
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Intro to Man of Sorrows -> Intro to When Two Worlds Collide
Intro to Face in the Sand -> Intro to Dance of Death (which is on the same album, even!)
Where Eagles Dare (especially from 0:17-0:24) -> The Fallen Angel
Shadows of the Valley -> again, The Fallen Angel, Wasted Years, possibly even Losfer Words
Gates of Tomorrow -> Lord of the Flies
(and Children of the Damned -> Black Sabbath's Children of the Sea - I couldn't help myself, really)

You mean like this? :D
 
Saap, which ignorance? I am aware of the size of their discography and amount of long songs. Does this automatically mean that we are not allowed to criticize the use of many parts by other artists? If I am in the minority here, is that really that "disgruntling"? I mean, what's the fun of discussing when criticism can't be brought up?
JudasMyGuide said:
Shadows of the Valley -> again, The Fallen Angel, Wasted Years, possibly even Losfer Words
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And The Clansman.

I am aware of Maiden's recycling. Hell, I'm probably one the heaviest criticasters.
 
Let's just imagine we are songwriters - how would you avoid copying other bands? Even unintentionally? (which is much easier than you might think - in fact, I happened to copy songs I haven't even heard yet, then - I wrote something very close to AiC's Sludge Factory before I even heard the album and I managed to write a riff very similar to Bruce's Omega years before I heard Accident of Birth for the first time - that was one of the reasons I stopped writing songs altogether).

For example that This Dying Soul / Ark riff (it was the second or so in that video I believe) sounds so vaguely common to me, I would bet it was used even before that.
 
I have no problem with artists combining elements from artists they love into their own work, but I think DT's problem is how vocal they are about it and how specific they are about what songs they have lifted from.
 
Opposite for me, I appreciate their transparency. On the other hand, I can see how it hasn't helped with the criticism.

BTW I'm pretty sure MP has referred to DT as "the world's best cover band" at least once. That gives a ton of insight into their mission statement. Also how they constantly describe themselves as Yes meets Maiden/Metallica.
 
Has Myung ever been credited with "lead bass?" Doubtful. No ego. Although I'm sure Portnoy did that as nothing more than a joke.

I loved all the blatantly obvious Muse references on Octavarium. One of the only highlights of the album for me, really. Never really noticed the Sacrificed Sons / Hysteria thing before, either, but now that's it's pointed out it's VERY obvious, right down to the distorted bass.
 
Have you seen/tried the other apps? They're awesome. I agree on geoshred but stuff like samplewiz is a real game changer. I've done keyboard gigs using ipad as a source and it has made a huge difference.

It's still new technology but it is making rapid strides.
 
Well like any piece of technology, it is what you make of it. I happen to like a lot (not all) of what he does with the ipad stuff personally. But, more importantly, I'm excited that a musician I'm a big fan of is currently so involved in cutting edge technology and really pioneering new things with the instrument. Not just with ipads, but also with the seaboard and other things of that nature.

If you want a better impression of JR using the ipad, I think he does a really good job integrating it in his DT arsenal. I know the beginning melody of OTBOA and the second solo in Enigma Machine both use it. I'm not sure what he's doing on The Astonishing but it's definitely there, I saw him using it at the concert. I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually has his whole keyboard arsenal in the ipad, that could even be the case already.

With that said, I'm glad to see JR get more love here from you and Judas. I've given my fair share of criticisms but really I think he's a great musician and has overall been a positive for DT. I feel a similar way about him as I do Janick (which was a pretty good comparison from @Forostar ): He's a great soloist, writer, and plays a vital role in the albums he's on. My major gripe with him is when he mindlessly shreds over older solos. I understand if he doesn't want to play a solo as it was originally written, but at least do something a bit more interesting than an onslaught of fast runs.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
And, @Mosh , once you finish your LTL apologetics, I can promise you at least two things: 1.) I will "like" it, because it will be a first and I appreciate that, 2.) I will try to take it and play LTL again with it in my hand and try to find whatever you find in the song. I don't know how successful it'll be (so far it sounds to me mostly as a failed boring Yes channeling), but a change of mind definitely is possible - when I started visiting this forum, I did not like neither Nightwish's Beauty of the Beast nor Ghost Love Score. Now I love both. :)
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First of all, DT always describes themselves as Yes meets Metallica/Maiden. I think this song captures that the best. It's also still inventive, despite the influence. It's not like a lot of neo prog that came out of the 80s (and continues today) that just retreads the ground Yes already covered, Learning To Live is something totally new.

What I really like about the song is how it shifts moods so seamlessly. It goes from mysterious, to dark and heavy, to uplifting, all in just a few minutes. But it still sounds cohesive. There are just so many great moments sprinkled in. But my favorite part of the song has to be the one starting with JP's nylon guitar solo. Actually the part afterwards, which is easily the most sublime thing DT has ever done. The way that part builds up is really incredible and a moment that has never been recaptured by DT. It's one of those parts that's really enjoyable to watch on the live videos. The whole band is locked in together. Nobody is soloing, there isn't any emphasis on any particular instrument. It's just the band working together to create a mood. Even JLB is delivering a vocal performance without any lyrics. It's very satisfying when it finally climaxes with the legendary F# and JP's awesome guitar solo. It's something I feel their newer material kind of lacks. When they get into an instrumental section, they go straight into the crazy solos or unisons, there isn't as much effort in setting the mood first.

Then there's the Wait For Sleep reprise. This sort of thing would become a DT cliche, and an awesome one at that, but they never really did it as gracefully as on Learning To Live. It's totally out of left field but at the same time it really works and it's cool hearing the band jam on that melody. Kevin Moore also plays some of his best solos on this song.

There's also the awesome outro (sorry fadeout haters :p). It's like the band is saying, "we just gave you an hour of some of the best music you've ever heard, now we're going to bring it home like badasses with this awesome groove". The layering of parts there is great. A perfect way to end the song and the album.

These are just a few things that stick out.
 
Fair enough, they're going to cities that didn't get the first leg I assume. They're playing The Astonishing again so I don't really mind that they're not doing a larger tour. I would be disappointed if they were doing something different.
 
Huh, I thought they were going to do a second leg of the tour that wasn't The Astonishing. I could easily make The Milwaukee show, but I don't need to see TA again.
 
Since it says there's more to be announced, If they come back to Seattle, I might go. I still don't like the Astonishing so that's the only thing holding me back. Maybe I'll just wait til the next album.
 
I would probably see it again if it came to Denver. I saw an interview with JLB that says they're touring until March and then going to the studio. Apparently the next album is already planned.
 
@Detective Beauregard , I've decided to answer you here, because this is way too off topic for the Opeth thread:

JudasMyGuide said:
Maybe that's for the better. On the other end of the line you get those rigid concept album where at east two songs are there only for the concept. :D I'm more into that "thematic" concept albums anyway - DSOTM, SDOIT, AMOLAD... (I don't differentiate, but some do)
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Detective Beauregard said:
With Six Degrees do you mean because there's six songs each with their own unique sound? Because otherwise I fail to see anything unifying the entire album...
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Well, I wanted to write 8um, but SDOIT fits anyway - to me it describes various aspects of a broken mind:

- alcoholism/general dependence/compulsive behaviour and the hectic nervousness and self loathing that it brings (The Glass Prison),

- fighting the sin of despair even despite the often cruel and indifferent world and not being sure of one's own ways - the confirmation/affirmation being weak and hesitant (Blind Faith),

- learning to live with your strangeness and feelings of dissociation, even though other people won't understand it and even praise you for what you are so unsure about (or trying to avoid pride and arrogance despite your obvious exceptionality? Who knows?) (Misunderstood)

- being confused in the modern world with all the media and various opinion groups, feeling lost and overwhelmed and trying to swim between the extremes (or seeing only such extremes oneself - "splitting" is a genuine psychological thing, often found in people suffering from various disorders) (The Great Debate)

- having to cope with a serious loss (Disappear)

- culminating in the title symphony about genuine mental illnesses.

Pity that Panic Attack could not have been there :D
 
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