DREAM THEATER SURVIVOR 2016: Results -> A Change Of Seasons wins!

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Kevin Moore had very little to do with Awake. He was practically out of the band by then, the keyboard presence is very low. The only songs he was actively involved with were the ones he wrote lyrics for.
 
Mosh said:
Kevin Moore had very little to do with Awake. He was practically out of the band by then, the keyboard presence is very low. The only songs he was actively involved with were the ones he wrote lyrics for.
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I'm not saying that's not true, at least apart from the first sentence. But I just hear and feel him there. He is the one who got the solo spot and they would never do an album like this again, so I'm sceptical. Maybe that's just my irrational dislike speaking, but I smell him all over the album. I'm starting to sound silly, so don't let's press the issue. :D And of course, there's also the nearly inconceivable possibility I might be actually wrong from time to time. :D

He's just not my style, anyway. Just as I prefer Keith Emerson to Rick Wright and Rick Wakeman to Tony Banks. But he must be doing something right, since everybody and their brother love him passionately.

However, after re-listening... I still don't like Awake all that much, but it's definitely better than I remembered it. I like most of the songs, it's just that I simply prefer the other albums. On a general music scale, it would be a weak 7, probably (Astonishing is unrated). Erotomania, Web, Innocence (sad to see it go), Mirror... all are really good. On the other hand, I merely tolerate 6:00, don't like Voices all that much, grit my teeth through Lie and Lifting and utterly hate Vest. So there.
 
I'm split on Moore's contributions - I generally love his musical additions to songs, but only if he's collaborating. I agree that Space-Dye Vest is too much up its own ass (even though it's beautiful) and the lyrics are ludicrously pedestrian. I don't listen to Dream Theater to hear obvious things like about women who leave you and how you're depressed and no one understands and angsty angsty McAngstface.

However, some of his lyrics are downright fantastic when he is capable of self-editing. I absolutely love the vocal melodies on Lie and Pull Me Under, some of DT's most brilliantly catchy stuff.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
I'm split on Moore's contributions - I generally love his musical additions to songs, but only if he's collaborating. I agree that Space-Dye Vest is too much up its own ass (even though it's beautiful) and the lyrics are ludicrously pedestrian. I don't listen to Dream Theater to hear obvious things like about women who leave you and how you're depressed and no one understands and angsty angsty McAngstface.

However, some of his lyrics are downright fantastic when he is capable of self-editing. I absolutely love the vocal melodies on Lie and Pull Me Under, some of DT's most brilliantly catchy stuff.
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I guess that's a fair, unbiased statement. I'll even admit that Vest is rather catchy, for example. It's always about the personal preference. Like how I'm convinced that Falling into Infinity is their best 90's album. Yes, even with the executive meddling and the outside songwriter. :D
 
I'm quite opposed to the recent points made about Space-Dye Vest. I've always felt the lyrics are heartfelt, the music is very sentimental but not cheesy and the song is really powerful. I have no problem with the song "not being DT".

I think it'd be better if we didn't know the story behind the song, though. To know that all that depressive descriptions of unrequited love stem from thinking a girl on a catalogue is pretty cheapens the value a little bit.
 
The Flash said:
I have no problem with the song "not being DT".
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This sentiment is the reason Dream Theater isn't progressive anymore. The idea that something can be "not DT". For a long time there was no pre conceived idea of what DT is. They could go from proggy epics to Coldplay covers on the same album if they wanted to.
 
I agree. I've made clear in the past that I fully support artists' shifts in musical directions and their willingness to try out different things and it's the same for DT.

The Astonishing wasn't my cup of tea, it's the only DT album that I didn't get any enjoyment out of whatsoever, but to me it's a more respectable step to take than, say, Black Clouds & Silver Linings.
 
Mosh said:
This sentiment is the reason Dream Theater isn't progressive anymore. The idea that something can be "not DT". For a long time there was no pre conceived idea of what DT is. They could go from proggy epics to Coldplay covers on the same album if they wanted to.
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I'm not saying there's a way they should sound and I actually like when bands try out something new. It's better if the results are good, but still. However, if we consider it's more or less a solo song of one of the members, who was about to leave anyway, the band did not want to include it at first and wouldn't have done it at all if they had known he was about to leave, the song sounds like nothing else in their discography ... I don't know, but that isn't the type of "progressive" I had in mind. Let them do Coldplay covers!

Plus all the samples - people say they hate the gratuitous sampling on DT albums, but then you find out it's just the 00's albums and here (the album and the song) it's somehow acceptable...


The Flash said:
The Astonishing wasn't my cup of tea, it's the only DT album that I didn't get any enjoyment out of whatsoever, but to me it's a more respectable step to take than, say, Black Clouds & Silver Linings.
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In theory, I agree. I don't like Astonishing, I don't enjoy it all that much, but it definitely shows their dedication and courage and it's very respectable. In theory. In practice, what good is it to me if I can't enjoy the album. Yes, I probably respect them more now, but I would be much happier if I had another album by my favourite band which I can go completely crazy about and which I will piss myself to see in concert and which I would want to have autographed by all the members ... Yes, they can do whatever they like, but privately, I can think that though DT12 had some problems, I would prefer another album in that vein.

Also, I think they're reconsidering as well. The fact they stress in interviews "the next album's gonna be completely different", even though they haven't even finished the bloody tour yet makes me wonder whether it's really such triumph or whether they have their doubts, too. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, though.

So do you think Clouds are a "sell-out" album, so to speak? I don't think they kept a particular sound throughout the 00's because fans wouldn't let them, I believe they really wanted to sound like that.

Also, from the Portnoy site:

Does Mike like the mix on Awake, since Kevin Moore has voiced a negative opinion of it? faq id: 207
MP: Yes I do like the mixes on Awake for the most part. I think Kevin may have some resentments towards them because for the writing and recording of that whole album, he was “part of the band.” Then towards the very end of the recording, he informed us of his decision to leave the band. Once that was out in the open, we did not include him on any of the decision making throughout the mix because we knew he was no longer going to be in the band. So I suppose there are elements on the CD that he would have liked to have seen or heard differently, but he had to relinquish his vote as a result of leaving.

So he definitely participated in the recording of the album, except for the final mixing. Might be why he's felt throughout, even if he's not necessarily heard throughout. However, it's complicated and since we were not present during the recording of the album, we'll probably never know.


I'm looking forward for FII - in fact, I have already my assessment written! :D
 
Also, Jordan released an album Notes on a Dream in 2009 where he covered some DT songs too, Silent Man and Lifting Shadows among them (the first link has a wrong album cover, the second is a whole album - Lifting begins at around 5:22 - unfortunately, it is not on YT by itself)



The Silent Man is nice, but I like Shadows very much. Yes, it's calm and acoustic, but I guess that won't be too big a problem here among you lot, especially coming from Rudess :D
 
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Eliminated:
6:00 - 7 votes
The Silent Man - 7 votes
Lie - 7 votes
 
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Surrounded
Voices
Lifting Shadows Off a Dream
Space Dye Vest

Mind you, I've just finished listening to Voices and I like it, but I like the other songs more. Pity Silent Man has been silenced.
 
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Caught in a Web
Erotomania
Lifting Shadows
Scarred

Night Prowler said:
Moore is awesome and I hate Rudess.
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:scared:Them's fighting Words!

I'm actually on team Judas on this issue, in that I vastly prefer Rudess's albums to Moore's.

Space-Dye vest is incredible, however.
 
I don't hate Rudess but I do prefer Moore over him.

Rudess when he does the more of the "cinematic" work of DT is brilliant. Scenes and Six Degrees are filled with moments where Rudess shines but almost none of them are him soloing. But when he does his solos...

Moore was also fantastic in the cinematic department but his solo work also sounded great. He had a better knack for melody, I feel.
 
Mosh said:
This sentiment is the reason Dream Theater isn't progressive anymore. The idea that something can be "not DT". For a long time there was no pre conceived idea of what DT is. They could go from proggy epics to Coldplay covers on the same album if they wanted to.
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I agree. As soon as they went for a "signature" sound (despite the fact none of them is a good producer), they stopped being really interesting. Though a good album, I consider SFAM to be the beginning of the end (and Octavarium, the first non memorable album).
 
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