MrKnickerbocker
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I was gonna like your post, NP, but then I disagreed with most of your votes 
DREAM THEATER SURVIVOR 2016: Results -> A Change Of Seasons wins!
- Thread starter Night Prowler
- Start date
Dynamics are basically the difference between soft and loud. Something with a lot of dynamics switches between the two. Think most of the best Opeth epics. It's also a big deal when talking about production. Without getting too much into the technical details, one of the processes during production is making the difference between loud parts and soft parts smaller to make everything seem closer to one volume. It's a valid technique when used right, but is constantly overused. When I criticize a song like Repentance for lack of dynamics, that's what I'm referring to.
Dream Theater used to be good at this but they've really lost it in recent years IMO, both songwriting wise and in terms of production.
Unisons are when two or more instruments are playing the same parts. Obviously that happens a lot in rock music but with Dream Theater it's specifically referring to the more melodic leads between keyboard and guitar. A more accurate term would be "soli", but whatever. This is opposed to a harmony which is two or more instruments playing the same rhythmic melody but with different notes (think Iron Maiden twin leads). A lot of what people refer to as unisons with DT are actually harmonies (LNF for example isn't entirely a unison).
Some examples:
8:36
16:58 - 17:11 (it becomes a harmony afterwards)
Octavarium is a good example because you can hear the difference between a unison and a harmony.
Dream Theater used to be good at this but they've really lost it in recent years IMO, both songwriting wise and in terms of production.
Unisons are when two or more instruments are playing the same parts. Obviously that happens a lot in rock music but with Dream Theater it's specifically referring to the more melodic leads between keyboard and guitar. A more accurate term would be "soli", but whatever. This is opposed to a harmony which is two or more instruments playing the same rhythmic melody but with different notes (think Iron Maiden twin leads). A lot of what people refer to as unisons with DT are actually harmonies (LNF for example isn't entirely a unison).
Some examples:
Octavarium is a good example because you can hear the difference between a unison and a harmony.
MrKnickerbocker
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A good example of dynamics taken too far would be a lot of the epics on The X Factor (like Sign of the Cross): the quiet parts are so quiet that you have to turn them up, but then the loud part kicks in and breaks your ears.
Yea, that's a good example of the opposite extreme.
Edit: I think A Matter of Life and Death did a pretty good job with that. They didn't master it so an entire step of the compression process didn't happen. The quiet parts are soft and the loud parts are powerful, but it's all perfectly balanced.
Edit: I think A Matter of Life and Death did a pretty good job with that. They didn't master it so an entire step of the compression process didn't happen. The quiet parts are soft and the loud parts are powerful, but it's all perfectly balanced.
Ah ok. Yea they were definitely doing clicks by then. The recording I was talking about was their first tour with Mangini, Summer 2011.
No I think they only started using clicks in 2012. It's more that without a click Mangini doesn't push as much as Portnoy, if anything he slows down a bit. But there are also more improvised moments on that recording that we don't get with DT anymore because they have to stay with the backing track
I totally agree. The way Nicko pushes the tempo is the main reason new Maiden albums still have the same energy as the old stuff. I could do without the click tracks and backing tracks.
So yes, I like that the tempo fluctuates a bit on that recording. There have been some live DT recordings where some songs sound a bit too slow for me.
So yes, I like that the tempo fluctuates a bit on that recording. There have been some live DT recordings where some songs sound a bit too slow for me.
Lampwick 43
Barstool Warrior
I gotta be honest: I never noticed the I&W similarities on ADTOE before. After thinking about it, (and fully reading this lengthy post
) I can definitely see the similarities. Some of them are actually pretty striking. The songs are still different enough that it's not completely obvious, though. It also doesn't diminish how I feel about the album overall.I am curious how much of the similarities were intentional, or if most of it is just coincidental.
There are a few reasons I think it was intentional. The biggest is that DT have done this sort of thing before, be it with other bands' songs or just their own songs on the same album when doing concept albums. Or even the 12 Step Suite. Taking existing strong structures and doing something new with them is kind of their shtick.
It doesn't diminish how I feel about the album either, if anything it enhances my enjoyment. It's subtle in a lot of places so I usually find it clever. Lost Not Forgotten is the only one that is a bit too similar.
I think it was all intentional.
It doesn't diminish how I feel about the album either, if anything it enhances my enjoyment. It's subtle in a lot of places so I usually find it clever. Lost Not Forgotten is the only one that is a bit too similar.
I think it was all intentional.
MrKnickerbocker
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Will return with a full report, but for now I will say: wish I hadn't voted for Far From Heaven, it's really rather beautiful. Also, I would love to vote for BMUBMD, but it's a goner anyway. 
MrKnickerbocker
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Complete thoughts on A Dramatic Turn of Events.
This album flies by when I listen to it. It's just a joy to listen to and there always seems to be another surprise hiding in the music that I haven't noticed before. The vibe on this album, like the cover, is full of air and (non-black, non-tuff guy) clouds.
On the Backs of Angels - Epic, melodic, powerful. It immediately and naturally sounds like Dream Theater, the classic sound that made me fall in love with the band. JR is doing some really cool stuff throughout, especially those run ups in the pre chorus (also that piano part is dope). His playing is very obvious, but it’s not overpowering. Oh, and JMX is loud! That bass stop before the second verse is killer. The only thing I don’t love about this song is the octave vocal recording, but LaBrie sounds fine, so I’ll allow it. Great ending. 10/10
Build Me Up, Break Me Down - Oy vey that nu metal hip hop opening kills me and the song is so reliant on sound effects that it just doesn’t do much for me. I hate to imagine what that post chorus would sound like with Portnoy vocals. Reminds me of You Not Me, though this is better and heavier. The classical solo section is killer and raises the song by a point or two. Overall, BMUBMD just doesn’t fit this album and is easily the weakest track here. It would have been right at home on SC or BC&SL. 6/10
Lost Not Forgotten - The intro is amazing, but that circus thing is terrible. Probably the most ill-fitting in moment in any Dream Theater song. Also, the meter changes in the chorus really detract from the power of the melody. Mangini slays this song. His cymbal work is crazy technical. Those bell hits during the final chorus and bridge parts are outstanding. Petrucci's solo is so cool. Sure, it sounds like UAGM, but it's still awesome. Great ending. It’s a very strong song, though, because even with those obvious issues it still gets a 8/10.
This is the Life - I wish the intro solo was keyboard instead of guitar, just to add a different flavor and so that Petrucci’s delicious lead after the first chorus was the first time we heard a guitar solo. The second verse sounds like it was cut short. JMX is doing some really cool subtle stuff underneath it all. Overall not bad, just a little nondescript. Mostly due to the lyrics and melodies. Bass and drum synchs up after "memories will fade" is awesome. Another good ending. This album has good track endings. 7/10
Bridges in the Sky - Goddamn this song is amazing. I didn't remember it being this amazing. The soundscape, the riffs, that huge chorus, LaBrie sounding evil as hell, that double bass riff before the second verse, holy hell this is a masterpiece. My favorite heavy song since The Glass Prison. I adore the bananas-yet-still-emotional instrumental section (including Mangini’s incredible tom work) that begins over "Shaman take my hand." 10/10
Outcry - Another fucking masterpiece! The intro, the riffing, the keyboards, the quiet bridge before that amazing chorus…I love it all. This chorus is everything Symphony X wished they could have written on Iconoclast. The pummeling shit over JR's leads in the insane bridge...god it's nuts. I know people don't think it fits, but I hear nothing wrong with this bridge. The JMX walking bass section? My god. Then it all comes back together with JP's snake charmer riff before more madness...this is masterfully and wonderfully excessive. Then the double dose of JMX and MM doing the bass and octoban runs...jaw dropped. This is Dance of Eternity level stuff. It wouldn't have worked going this insane without bringing it back down with that bass led jam section, letting the song build back up instead of cutting back to the chorus - that would have been overwhelming, but what they did is perfect. The only thing I don't love is the final vocal melody, but it's a small gripe. 10/10
Far From Heaven - Beautiful, haunting, simple. JLB does wonders with these tiny little ballads, doesn’t he? 8/10
Breaking All Illusions - A Dream Theater doctorate level course. Everything that defines DT is done in this song more beautifully than any other song. A top ten, nay, top five DT song. I can't even dissect it because everything is perfection. The way LaBrie sings the title is one of my favorite LaBrie vocals ever. A perfect finale. 10/10
Beneath the Surface - Absolutely beautiful. Top 3 DT ballad. Petrucci called this the closing credits to the album and I think that's genius. It's a very perfect epilogue. I actually like JR's bizarre islander keyboard lead. 10/10
Album rating - 8.7 (highest album rating since ToT)
This album flies by when I listen to it. It's just a joy to listen to and there always seems to be another surprise hiding in the music that I haven't noticed before. The vibe on this album, like the cover, is full of air and (non-black, non-tuff guy) clouds.
On the Backs of Angels - Epic, melodic, powerful. It immediately and naturally sounds like Dream Theater, the classic sound that made me fall in love with the band. JR is doing some really cool stuff throughout, especially those run ups in the pre chorus (also that piano part is dope). His playing is very obvious, but it’s not overpowering. Oh, and JMX is loud! That bass stop before the second verse is killer. The only thing I don’t love about this song is the octave vocal recording, but LaBrie sounds fine, so I’ll allow it. Great ending. 10/10
Build Me Up, Break Me Down - Oy vey that nu metal hip hop opening kills me and the song is so reliant on sound effects that it just doesn’t do much for me. I hate to imagine what that post chorus would sound like with Portnoy vocals. Reminds me of You Not Me, though this is better and heavier. The classical solo section is killer and raises the song by a point or two. Overall, BMUBMD just doesn’t fit this album and is easily the weakest track here. It would have been right at home on SC or BC&SL. 6/10
Lost Not Forgotten - The intro is amazing, but that circus thing is terrible. Probably the most ill-fitting in moment in any Dream Theater song. Also, the meter changes in the chorus really detract from the power of the melody. Mangini slays this song. His cymbal work is crazy technical. Those bell hits during the final chorus and bridge parts are outstanding. Petrucci's solo is so cool. Sure, it sounds like UAGM, but it's still awesome. Great ending. It’s a very strong song, though, because even with those obvious issues it still gets a 8/10.
This is the Life - I wish the intro solo was keyboard instead of guitar, just to add a different flavor and so that Petrucci’s delicious lead after the first chorus was the first time we heard a guitar solo. The second verse sounds like it was cut short. JMX is doing some really cool subtle stuff underneath it all. Overall not bad, just a little nondescript. Mostly due to the lyrics and melodies. Bass and drum synchs up after "memories will fade" is awesome. Another good ending. This album has good track endings. 7/10
Bridges in the Sky - Goddamn this song is amazing. I didn't remember it being this amazing. The soundscape, the riffs, that huge chorus, LaBrie sounding evil as hell, that double bass riff before the second verse, holy hell this is a masterpiece. My favorite heavy song since The Glass Prison. I adore the bananas-yet-still-emotional instrumental section (including Mangini’s incredible tom work) that begins over "Shaman take my hand." 10/10
Outcry - Another fucking masterpiece! The intro, the riffing, the keyboards, the quiet bridge before that amazing chorus…I love it all. This chorus is everything Symphony X wished they could have written on Iconoclast. The pummeling shit over JR's leads in the insane bridge...god it's nuts. I know people don't think it fits, but I hear nothing wrong with this bridge. The JMX walking bass section? My god. Then it all comes back together with JP's snake charmer riff before more madness...this is masterfully and wonderfully excessive. Then the double dose of JMX and MM doing the bass and octoban runs...jaw dropped. This is Dance of Eternity level stuff. It wouldn't have worked going this insane without bringing it back down with that bass led jam section, letting the song build back up instead of cutting back to the chorus - that would have been overwhelming, but what they did is perfect. The only thing I don't love is the final vocal melody, but it's a small gripe. 10/10
Far From Heaven - Beautiful, haunting, simple. JLB does wonders with these tiny little ballads, doesn’t he? 8/10
Breaking All Illusions - A Dream Theater doctorate level course. Everything that defines DT is done in this song more beautifully than any other song. A top ten, nay, top five DT song. I can't even dissect it because everything is perfection. The way LaBrie sings the title is one of my favorite LaBrie vocals ever. A perfect finale. 10/10
Beneath the Surface - Absolutely beautiful. Top 3 DT ballad. Petrucci called this the closing credits to the album and I think that's genius. It's a very perfect epilogue. I actually like JR's bizarre islander keyboard lead. 10/10
Album rating - 8.7 (highest album rating since ToT)
What makes Bridges work for me is that it's heavy but in a natural DT-sounding way the way a lot of the earlier stuff was. They aren't trying to be Metallica or Disturbed, it's a standard sounding DT song that just happens to have some heavy riffing on it.
MrKnickerbocker
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Absolutely. That's why I love this album in general: other than BMUBMD it sounds so natural. This was the surprise of the discography for me as I never really gave this album much of an analysis before (I wasn't in a big DT phase when it came out due to Portnoy burnout). Call it an I&W clone, call it what you will, it sounds like Dream Theater and I enjoy every second of it.
Yea. Regardless of how I feel about the quality of recent albums, they all sound much more organic and less contrived than pretty much anything since Scenes.
Not a conspiracy theory, Petrucci has said that this was one of his favorite albums that year and inspired BMUBMD.
I'm thinking stuff like Disturbed, especially the riffing style. Nu Metal, Alt Metal, whatever you want to call it. The sort of thing that (at least when this came out) is very popular on modern rock radio. It's also heavily inspired by this album:I don't hear a single bit of nu metal in this song
Not a conspiracy theory, Petrucci has said that this was one of his favorite albums that year and inspired BMUBMD.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Bring Me Up Break Me Down:
I don't hear a single bit of nu metal in this song
You might not be familiar enough with nu metal then, the intro is full on nu metal.
Eliminated:
Raw Dog - 11 votes
Build Me Up, Break Me Down - 9 votes
Far From Heaven - 9 votes
Wither - 7 votes
This Is The Life - 7 votes
MrKnickerbocker
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Everything on BC&SL except Count of Tuscany + Lost Not Forgotten
Only thing left for me to decide is whether I like Nightmare or Tuscany or more. Leaning towards the latter because it's more consistent and doesn't have Portnoy's "growling".
MrKnickerbocker
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Someone's forgetting about MAH BROTHA having A RARE VINTAGE.