Dictators

Wästed The Great

Wästed The Great

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from: Zare on Yesterday at 07:36:20 AM
Gadaffi still around? That guy camped in a tent in the park in middle of Belgrade during the non-aligned movement summit.   


Yeah, he do this all the time! In Paris, the same thing, even in Libya he's sleeping in a tent.
He's a good leader though, he takes care of his people, and people love him.
One of the best leaders of the Arabic World, imo.

Quote from: Quetzalcoatlus on Yesterday at 07:47:37 AM
He's a good leader though

Quote from:Perun
I honestly can't believe what I'm reading, but this is not the right thread for this.
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So, I guess I'm a little confused, about this deal.  Isn't this the guy that the USA bombed the piss out of back in the 80's, because he was arming terrorists?  Maybe I just don't understand.  And since someone stated we needed a dif thread, I thought I'd post one.... if there is a better place, that is cool, just end this one.
 
no5, do you mean...Muammar al-Gaddafi...the dictator of Libya?

Are you insane?  This is a man who has sent hit squads to kill people in other countries, and was responsible, if not directly then implicitly, in at least three major attacks on US citizens!  He pursued nuclear weapons with the stated objective of burning the West's cities!  No matter how diplomatic he has been in the last few years, that does *not* excuse the hundreds and hundreds known dead because of him - and thousands more, likely!
 
Some facts I didn't know (ie US citizens' attacks) but my admiration for him is only related to how good he takes care of his people.
He is one out of very few Arabic leaders to really take care and love his people ; See Egypt for instance, or Nigeria... or Iran

Ok, Nigeria is not an Arabic country but it's a rich one, as Iran, Egypt, Libya.

Compare Gaddafi to all Muslim leaders, and I'm curious how many you'll find better than him,
in the aspect of taking care his people.
 
LC, i could say the same thing about Bill Clinton. He's responsible for bombings over Serbia that killed numerous civilians and left the country's infrastructure in ashes. Yet, the world regards him as positive historical figure. And so do i, in a sense.

Don't all superpowers send "hit squads" (ergo, secret services) to kill people in other countries?

He has behaved like any other trigger-happy ruler with great power in his hands. As i said before, superpower leaders (USSR, USA, China, Russia, whatever) tend to do the same thing. The truth is, he takes care of his people : Libya is a real developed socialist state, with high GDP, vast middle-class, low poverty, high literacy, free education.
 
Should I Godwin this thread right away or should I wait to see how it unfolds?
 
No need to be shocked about the political opinions of one or two forum members who often defend non-western nations and leaders, overlooking (and sometimes even denying) all the negative aspects, and at the same time they try to attack "the west" (mostly the USA) by making comparisons, and focussing on merely the negative aspects and not the positive.
 
Zare said:
Libya is a real developed socialist state, with high GDP, vast middle-class, low poverty, high literacy, free education.
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The same can be said of a lot of Western countries, without all the stuff LC said...
 
This poisonous fucker was arming the IRA for years(admittedly alongside funding from the states).

And wasn't a Libyan behind the Lockerbie bombing
 
Zare said:
LC, i could say the same thing about Bill Clinton. He's responsible for bombings over Serbia that killed numerous civilians and left the country's infrastructure in ashes. Yet, the world regards him as positive historical figure. And so do i, in a sense.

Don't all superpowers send "hit squads" (ergo, secret services) to kill people in other countries?

He has behaved like any other trigger-happy ruler with great power in his hands. As i said before, superpower leaders (USSR, USA, China, Russia, whatever) tend to do the same thing. The truth is, he takes care of his people : Libya is a real developed socialist state, with high GDP, vast middle-class, low poverty, high literacy, free education.
Click to expand...

The difference is that Bill Clinton & NATO in general gave Serbia warning, they gave the government a deadline, and said what they wanted.  The Libyans did not - they started bombing airplanes, clubs, etc. to kill Americans and other westerners, not to mention killing Doc Brown.  I'm not defending or supporting the attacks on Serbia - I'm saying that it's not as neatly analogous as you suggest.

Hit squads?  The KGB sure did some of that, the CIA used to, but there is little evidence of government assassinations in the recent era.  I wouldn't be surprised if it exists, mind you, especially under GWB.  But evidence is different than suspicion.

Libya does have a decent medium wage, but its infant mortality is still very high, and I don't generally consider an 82% literacy rate to be huge, if it is decent for the area.  So, yes, Libyans do well compared to some other African nations, but overall, I don't think Libya is a great example of socialism.  The CIA World Factbook says "Substantial revenues from the energy sector coupled with a small population give Libya one of the highest per capita GDPs in Africa, but little of this income flows down to the lower orders of society" suggesting poverty is more than simply "low".
 
Forostar said:
No need to be shocked about the political opinions of one or two forum members who often defend non-western nations and leaders, overlooking (and sometimes even denying) all the negative aspects, and at the same time they try to attack "the west" (mostly the USA) by making comparisons, and focussing on merely the negative aspects and not the positive.
Click to expand...

C'mon man! I was enough clear in my second post.
And what's this story about western leaders ?? I don't care if they are western or something else
If you defend someone only because he's western it's your fault not mine
 
You need to compare him with the others of his kind. If he is one of the best of Arabic World this is something to me.
And he is. What else you need to know ? Of course for the people that do the researches you linked will never be good enough.

Go se the situation to other Arabic countries... At least in Libya they have a house for free, education,
enormous cheap technology, hospitals, education.

Tell me three Arabic leaders to be better than Gadaffi for their people.
To simply mention that Gaddafi is not good, without proposing some Arabic leader that he is
is not just enough to me cause is like you scorn the entire Arabic World
and so the conversation end here.
 
Quetzalcoatlus said:
You need to compare him with the others of his kind.
Click to expand...

No. No, you don't. Anyone in a position of power who abuses it to violate human rights is a criminal. They're all despicable. There is no need to abuse human rights. Even if you have killed only one person, you remain a murderer.
And I don't need to show you an Arab leader who is good or better, because that doesn't change anything.
 
What the hell?  No way, no5, you don't get off that easy.  Perun didn't say he scorned the entire Arab world.  And you have no basis for saying that.  Never has he ever said anything against Arabs in general.  His point is that the best turd in a pile of shit is still a piece of shit, and that while some, perhaps many of Gadaffi's subjects are better off under him than they were in the post-colonial era, there are many thousands who have suffered or died for that supposed prosperity.

By the way: Abdullah II of Jordan is a much better ruler.
 
At least you tried, Perun didn't. I need two other leaders.
And : You sould go to Jordan to see how they live, I would have prefered to be a Libyan than a Jordanian, I tell you.
 
Quetzalcoatlus said:
At least you tried, Perun didn't. I need two other leaders.
And : You sould go to Jordan to see how they live, I would have prefered to be a Libyan than a Jordanian, I tell you.
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You are full of it, man.  Let's try this: find me three Arab leaders who aren't a dictator - popularly elected in a system without rife corruption or voter fraud.
 
So let's face it that the Arabic World is different than ours and the only way to understand it,
is to compare Arabic Countries between them.

Once you'll do this, you'll understand why I defended Gaddafi.
 
Are you suggesting that it's Arabic to pursue and torture people?
 
Quetzalcoatlus said:
So let's face it that the Arabic World is different than ours and the only way to understand it,
is to compare Arabic Countries between them.

Once you'll do this, you'll understand why I defended Gaddafi.
Click to expand...

I understand that the Arab world is different to the Western world, 5.  But the Arab world has some very bad people running their countries.  Perhaps Gaddafi isn't so bad when compared to people like Saddam Hussein; but then again, he is responsible for the deaths of thousands.  If you can tell me how this is a good thing, please, then you might be able to convince me.  Until then, I think you are being foolish.
 
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