Bruce Dickinson

Bruce talks about how fans no longer value music: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ir...ted-about-the-fact-that-music-has-real-value/

"They have a tough job, actually, because digital downloading… well, not digital downloading now in itself, but the result of Napster and things like that, even though downloading is now kind of mainstream, Napster destroyed the concept of music having any value, which is terrible. I think the guy [who started Napster] should be locked up, and maybe he has been — he deserves to be. It was an act of pure selfish destruction. And what he did was he used the enthusiasm of the audience… Because the audience is not guilty — they could get all this great music for free. Why wouldn't they do that? They didn't realize that what they were doing was destroying an entire culture.

"For a band like us, actually we still make records, but we pretty much accept that we don't really make hardly any money out of making a record," he continued. "We still do it because we have to, because we love it and we have to do new music. But the great thing with us is we can tour and make money [by playing] live. Other bands, bands who are coming up doing great music, they don't get that luxury. And it's hard to see where a whole generation of musicians is gonna come from now. People who are brilliant musicians don't get paid for doing amazing jobs.

"I get paid when they sell a [copy of my] book. The difference is, I took two and a half months to write this book, and I get paid a royalty, and, actually, it's very reasonable, it's very fair. If this book was a record and I took two and a half months to make it, I would have to give it away, because people will pay for a book, but they won't pay for an album. That is really sad and it's wrong. Now, I don't know where we're gonna get to in the future. It's possible that the digital downloading world will start to charge a little bit more money and artists will get paid a little bit more.

"When you consider that most people, when they sit down and listen to an album, they might drink a pint of beer or have a can of an energy drink or something else like that. So they'll pay the price of a can of energy drink, but they won't pay the price for the album. And it's sad.

"I think everybody needs to be educated about the fact that music has real value and musicians have real value; they spent years working on their craft to entertain people."

Now Maiden is going about online counterfeit merchandisers: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/iron-maiden-goes-after-online-counterfeiters/

Because if they can't make money off the music, they sure as hell need to protect their merch sales!
 
Napster is a beating horse now, everyone is blaming 20 y.o. story for their lack of sales. And it's all bullshit. I'd love to be in the room when Dickinson said that about Napster authors - personally I would rip him apart right there and that interview wouldn't look good for him.
 
As if he made a 180 degree on Napster.
Yes, a certain Danish individual had him locked in his basement until he did it. He also wanted him to start to sing very badly live and raise the ticket prices to cca 150€. Luckily he was saved by special agend Smallwood before the last two were done, but he will have to live with permanent damage of brainwashing about the Napster.
 
Could it be that Bruce, as a business insider who had been receiving the royalties for his music for 20 years, noticed a dramatic difference in his income at around the time Napster, P2P sharing and online downloads arose, and thus - *gasp* - may know what he's talking about?
 
Could it be that Bruce, as a business insider who had been receiving the royalties for his music for 20 years, noticed a dramatic difference in his income at around the time Napster, P2P sharing and online downloads arose, and thus - *gasp* - may know what he's talking about?
Come on now, don't be ridiculous.
 
Don't be ridiculous, both of you. He's blaming "the Napster guy" so that he gets out of blaming his fans, because they're the ones that were pirating.
 
Could it be that Bruce, as a business insider who had been receiving the royalties for his music for 20 years, noticed a dramatic difference in his income at around the time Napster, P2P sharing and online downloads arose, and thus - *gasp* - may know what he's talking about?

Nope and besides he made pro-upload anti-Metallica we-dont-give-a-fuck type of speeches after Napster was shut down.
Also the speeches on AOB tour in Brazil where there was no domestic release -> people knew the song because someone imported it and made illicit bootleg copies or they got it from the Internet. Fraunhofffer MP3 codec didn't start music illicit music sharing, it brought them to $1000 PC with a dial up connection. Music was shared elsewhere between "distributers" since the dawn of packet networks.
 
The difference with his 2003 attitude (speeches on stage when introducing Wildest Dreams) is ridiculously blatant.
 
Nope and besides he made pro-upload anti-Metallica we-dont-give-a-fuck type of speeches after Napster was shut down.

He advocated recording a new and unreleased song Maiden were playing in the 2003 GMETID tour to advertise the new album and explicitly asked people to buy the album if they liked the song. He certainly did not advocate illegal P2P sharing of entire albums. There is a major difference here; he certainly wasn't naive, but he appealed to people's support. Back then, I think, he believed that this still worked. BNW sold 2 million physical copies, DoD 1.5. TFF sold 523,000. Is it so hard to understand that Bruce may have developed his opinion on this over the last 15 years?

Also the speeches on AOB tour in Brazil where there was no domestic release -> people knew the song because someone imported it and made illicit bootleg copies or they got it from the Internet.

Of course Bruce knew that in Brazil, albums were mostly spread through bootlegs. But the AOB tour was in 1997, before Napster even existed. Back then, it was inconveivable that people would be able to download music in such masses as it later happened, and would do so in countries where the albums were commercially available. But we are also talking about countries like the US, UK or Germany, where anyone can pick up a CD at a local store at any given time; and in these countries, people illegally download in highly significant masses.

Fraunhofffer MP3 codec didn't start music illicit music sharing, it brought them to $1000 PC with a dial up connection.

Nobody claims that, and I don't see anywhere in the quote that Bruce was talking about the MP3 format as such. He talked about people not paying for the music today. He said Napster started it, but it is still going on today, in much larger scale than in the heyday of Napster.

Music was shared elsewhere between "distributers" since the dawn of packet networks.

Yes, but the quality of it became different with P2P sharing clients and broadband connections. In 1999, it took me an hour to download a five-minute song. Now I can download ten albums in half an hour. Before 1999, people either shared albums on low-quality tapes, which more often than not made people buy an album they liked when the tape was worn out or they had the cash, or through CD-Rs, in a time when CD burners were not common and very expensive. There were people making money selling burnt CDs, but this was a niche. Today, anyone with a decent internet connection can simply download an album for free in the same quality [Yes, not exactly the same quality, but most people don't care] as they would otherwise buy for much money on a CD. Yes, people also pay for streaming and MP3 downloads, but I would wager that artist's incomes does not even remotely reach the levels of the age of physical releases.

I really don't understand why it's so hard to believe that musicians experienced a breakdown in income when filesharing on the internet became widespread. What is so difficult about understanding this?
 
He advocated recording a new and unreleased song Maiden were playing in the 2003 GMETID tour to advertise the new album and explicitly asked people to buy the album if they liked the song. He certainly did not advocate illegal P2P sharing of entire albums. There is a major difference here; he certainly wasn't naive, but he appealed to people's support. Back then, I think, he believed that this still worked. BNW sold 2 million physical copies, DoD 1.5. TFF sold 523,000. Is it so hard to understand that Bruce may have developed his opinion on this over the last 15 years?

Of course Bruce knew that in Brazil, albums were mostly spread through bootlegs. But the AOB tour was in 1997, before Napster even existed. Back then, it was inconveivable that people would be able to download music in such masses as it later happened, and would do so in countries where the albums were commercially available. But we are also talking about countries like the US, UK or Germany, where anyone can pick up a CD at a local store at any given time; and in these countries, people illegally download in highly significant masses.

Nobody claims that, and I don't see anywhere in the quote that Bruce was talking about the MP3 format as such. He talked about people not paying for the music today. He said Napster started it, but it is still going on today, in much larger scale than in the heyday of Napster.

Yes, but the quality of it became different with P2P sharing clients and broadband connections. In 1999, it took me an hour to download a five-minute song. Now I can download ten albums in half an hour. Before 1999, people either shared albums on low-quality tapes, which more often than not made people buy an album they liked when the tape was worn out or they had the cash, or through CD-Rs, in a time when CD burners were not common and very expensive. There were people making money selling burnt CDs, but this was a niche. Today, anyone with a decent internet connection can simply download an album for free in the same quality [Yes, not exactly the same quality, but most people don't care] as they would otherwise buy for much money on a CD. Yes, people also pay for streaming and MP3 downloads, but I would wager that artist's incomes does not even remotely reach the levels of the age of physical releases.

I really don't understand why it's so hard to believe that musicians experienced a breakdown in income when filesharing on the internet became widespread. What is so difficult about understanding this?

Wise words and quoted for truth.

On a side note, funnily enough, the sales of TBOS are up (significantly) compared to those of TFF.
 
Of course I understand he changed his opinion. I deduced that in the first place. It's the way he's bringing this. I am saying that he changed it. And that he did it blatantly. If he would admit that he did have a more subtle and tolerant opinion 15-20 years ago, and if it would not sound like a tuff guy statement (and as if he's saying something about it for the first time), I'd be less triggered to say anything at all about it.
 
And that he did it blatantly.

I'm not so sure it's that blatant. My impression in 2003 was that he and the Maiden camp tried to use the new P2P technology to their advantage by encouraging people to share a live bootleg over it instead of a studio album. Maybe they somehow thought that appealing to everybody's integrity through embracing new technology would work; obviously, they were wrong. They tried other things, like putting MP3s of the first three songs of AMOLAD on their website, and then El Dorado later on, and all this apparently didn't have the desired result. Now, 15 years later, Bruce is looking back at all this and tries to make out where it all started going wrong. In his own words, maybe he didn't realise in 2003 either that people were "destroying an entire culture".
 
I'm not so sure it's that blatant. My impression in 2003 was that he and the Maiden camp tried to use the new P2P technology to their advantage by encouraging people to share a live bootleg over it instead of a studio album. Maybe they somehow thought that appealing to everybody's integrity through embracing new technology would work; obviously, they were wrong. They tried other things, like putting MP3s of the first three songs of AMOLAD on their website, and then El Dorado later on, and all this apparently didn't have the desired result. Now, 15 years later, Bruce is looking back at all this and tries to make out where it all started going wrong. In his own words, maybe he didn't realise in 2003 either that people were "destroying an entire culture".

Wise words again!
 
Perun, I'm pissed off because he said he'd throw the Napster guy in jail and he wasn't engaging in figure speech.

In regards to destroying cultures and killing industries I'd like to see some non-biased professional research. Correlation isn't causation.

Technology cut down price of music because that's what technology does, it eases access to something. I don't see why anyone should be able to live off generic music when generic music can be produced by kids with computers, few years experience, and one or two instruments. Back before digital tech, in the 1970s where all these views come from, making a radio jingles, eg. few seconds of a beat, a chord and a melody, required a band of people and studio time.

In turn those people sold off their studio experience to earn money. Nowdays it's not needed because technology got us there. O you want Facebook and porn videos but you don't want easy ways to replace your job? Ain't that cute...

Like I said a lot of factors involved but somehow blaming a dead horse now seems like the easiest route.
 
I'll give you this much, Bruce is making it a bit easy for himself by mounting all the blame on one guy. The music industry failed to respond to the technological advances in the Napster era in an appropriate way. It was always individual artists trying to push the envelope and embrace technology, and Maiden were one of them.
Nevertheless, by, say 2008, I'd been sneered at for "still buying CDs", while buying digital downloads was not yet much of a thing (if it ever became one). Engaging in music and supporting the artist have become two different things. The latter part is a voluntary companion to the former, it's no longer essential.
I don't know what the music industry could have done to prevent this, and I know it's easy to say a lot of smart things in hindsight, but I perfectly understand Bruce's frustration with the development, especially since he made significant effort to keep up with the development.
 
I can't see his angle, though, because Maiden is actually selling compared to other artists.
 
I can't see his angle, though, because Maiden is actually selling compared to other artists.

His angle is, as a music punter, he thinks won't get to hear a lot of new bands in the future because there's no money in it for them.
 
I'm not so sure it's that blatant. My impression in 2003 was that he and the Maiden camp tried to use the new P2P technology to their advantage by encouraging people to share a live bootleg over it instead of a studio album. Maybe they somehow thought that appealing to everybody's integrity through embracing new technology would work; obviously, they were wrong. They tried other things, like putting MP3s of the first three songs of AMOLAD on their website, and then El Dorado later on, and all this apparently didn't have the desired result. Now, 15 years later, Bruce is looking back at all this and tries to make out where it all started going wrong. In his own words, maybe he didn't realise in 2003 either that people were "destroying an entire culture".

I thought the whole thing in 2003 was just to get a subtle dig at Metallica. No more, nor less than that was intended.
 
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