Bruce Dickinson

[Iron Lurker]

Anthony Fantano, a YouTube music reviewer. Probably the biggest modern day music critic actually, and a good one who’s fair but always leaves the door open for disagreement. I don’t think him disliking the song will hurt it by any means though, most of his fans are still mad at him giving that Kanye album a 6.

Thanks! Never heard of him...

Frankly I value the opinions of the fans on here more than some random on the YouTubes.

 

[Kalata]

I wish I heard what you are hearing in the song because the chorus is neither good nor memorable to me. It's the weak link.

Also, kinda related:
Bruce has been known for decades for being one of the better songwriters in Maiden as far as lyrics are concerned. In the last few years I have noticed that he either knocks it out of the park with great lyrics (the chorus of IESF is one of my favorites), or he delivers some really clunkly and bad lines. Like, TWOTW for example:

Have you seen the writing on the wall?
Have you seen that writing?
Can you see the riders on the storm?
Can you see them riding?
Seriously? The melody is anthemic but the lyrics suck. AOR has a similar issue:

I cross the shining seas
Eyes of creatures follow me

Phenomenally bad line from Bruce here. No idea why he didn't rephrase that.

The weak link is definitely the instrumental section. I think the song needed such a melodic, longer and catchy/memorable chorus. Just for the sake of the theme, if you will. Repeating only the title of the song like for the outro also would have been good (and strong as a statement) as a chorus. It's like Stratego's chorus, but with a Skunkworks feel. The song just needs time.

I actually like the ''Eyes of creatures follow me'' line, and especially as part of the lyrics. The Writing On The Wall line is not that special, but it works for the song.

I slightly disagree. I like the chorus (and the song overall), but it's not super innovative or particularly impressive, especially given their (Roy & Bruce) track record.

It's memorable and somewhat catchy indeed, but so are many other choruses out there. The riff is... good, I guess, and manages to drive the song, but it's not particularly ingenious either. So I think decent/average ratings are more than understandable.

So yeah, I like the song and I'm very, very excited for the album.

Bruce and Roy can do better ofc, but my point was that this is not my example of an average/mediocre song or chorus. Innovative, nope (that's really difficult now), but impressive in a way that the melody can drive it with such ease. This is a Steve-type of chorus from Bruce. And the riff is very ''ingenious'' for me. I'm excited about the album too. Bruce will reveal the special stuff.

Youse all go on about production too much. A shit song with great production is still shit and a great song with shit production is still great.

I generally agree, but sometimes good production can elevate an already solid song. That's not an issue for my anyway.

 

[TheMercenary]

Wedding picture.

 

[Jer]

Wedding picture.

Where did you originally see this?

 

[The_7th_one]

Wedding picture.

View attachment 32271

I'm sure @Azas can make a film noir treatment to this picture to look to the 1930's You know, Bonnie and Clyde style

 

[TheMercenary]

Where did you originally see this?

On a french discussion group about Iron Maiden. But, it has been first shared by someone from Instagram and I don't know it was Leana's or Bruce's IG official profile, because I didn't have the link. A lot of discussions groups of Iron Maiden on FB are sharing this.

 

[Mosh]

Question:

I’m not expecting anyone to know the exact answer to this but I’ve not seen anyone else mention it.

Why has Bruce released a vinyl single with a mini graphic novel but no cd version yet the full album has a cd version with graphic novel but the vinyl version doesn’t have this option?

Things like singles are geared more toward collectors and there’s more of a market for that sort of thing on vinyl than on CD. As far as the full album goes, I reckon they expect anyone who cares that much about the graphic novel will buy the vinyl and CD versions of the album. Just a guess tho

 

[The_7th_one]

On a french discussion group about Iron Maiden. But, it has been first shared by someone from Instagram and I don't know it was Leana's or Bruce's IG official profile, because I didn't have the link. A lot of discussions groups of Iron Maiden on FB are sharing this.

Brazilians hardcore fans, who else?

 

[MindRuler]

Brazilians hardcore fans, who else?

Greek hardcore fans?

 

[InfiniteDreamer544]

I feel like Necropolis should’ve been the name of the fleshy guy with red eyes. That name is much more suitable for him than for the main character

 

[Azas]

I feel like Necropolis should’ve been the name of the fleshy guy with red eyes. That name is much more suitable for him than for the main character

I thought that in Maiden's version, at the end of the song, Necropolis is a bad guy..

 

[GhostofCain]

Wedding picture.

View attachment 32271

Thanks for sharing.

In the unlikely event they’ll get to read this, congratulations to the newly wed!

 

[GhostofCain]

Things like singles are geared more toward collectors and there’s more of a market for that sort of thing on vinyl than on CD. As far as the full album goes, I reckon they expect anyone who cares that much about the graphic novel will buy the vinyl and CD versions of the album. Just a guess tho

You are probably right and they seem to be relying on pre-orders more than anything else. Checked a second HMV store today (this time in Bath), and Bruce’s single was nowhere to be seen.

 

[Mosh]

I hate to skip over the always more interesting celebrity gossip, but there was some music discussion I wanted to weigh in on:

Not sure if I agree. Production is important. So is performance. We can see that when comparing the TBOS version of If Eternity Should Fail with the demo version. It's the same song and you can already tell that it's a good song, but a proper production as well as the performances of the Maiden members let the song shine.

As a different example, choose whatever classical piece that you can think of. If it's popular there will be dozens or even hundreds of official recordings. Not all of them are equal. Some are too fast; some too slow; others are in the sweet spot. Some have dodgy performances; others nail it. Some have pristine audio quality; others might be very old and have relatively bad audio quality; others yet might have weird over-production applied to them making them sound wrong. They're all fundamentally the same music, but the details surrounding the recording are what makes you choose your definitive version.

A good song with bad production I enjoy in spite of the production. A good song with a good production serves to enhance my enjoyment. Why settle for less?

Imo the classical comparison doesn’t work at all. The biggest difference is that for any pre-20th century works, the composer wasn’t around to oversee/conduct recordings. There are a lot of discrepancies over style, tempo, and other performance elements that account for differences in recordings. In rock music, the composer also makes the recording and is usually able to make their own creative decisions. The version of Senjutsu that we have is the definitive recording as the artist intended, whether we like it or not. It’s part of why I don’t like those fan “remixes” (which they’re usually not) and edits that come along every time something Maiden related comes out. Not only do they usually sound terrible, but I am also just not interested in hearing some random on the internet’s vision of what a Maiden song should be when I can just hear Maiden’s vision. With classical music, the variations in recorded performances are all working to actualize what the performers believe to be the composer’s intentions.

I agree though that performance is important. A lot of what I miss in Ragnarok (and TOS) is that band interplay, the drums and guitars just feel kinda plain.

I would've gone for something different entirely. None of the alternatives work either, but "Eyes of creatures follow me" is even clunkier than many of Steve's creations. It sounds like something a 3rd grader would write.

I’ve noticed a bit of a change in lyrical style on the last couple Maiden albums that also extend to this new track. I remember some incorrect information came out about Adrian Smith writing lyrics for Writing on the Wall and a lot of people bought into it. It seemed possible largely because the lyric writing on that song was much more rough around the edges and less poetic than the Bruce we’ve been used to (as has been pointed out in this thread). Imo pretty much all of Bruce’s lyrics on the last two albums have had that quality. Very little ambiguity in the lines and much less use of metaphor or word play even if you just compare to stuff like Starblind and El Dorado.

The one exception here is If Eternity Should Fail. I will be really curious to see what the stylistic spread is considering how far back some of the material goes. Ragnarok lyrically very much feels like it fits with Bruce’s output this last decade, but if there are any pre-2014 lyrics in there maybe we’ll get some songs with less clunky writing. I’m not sure what the deal is, I noticed it in his book as well, his writing is pretty plain and sometimes a little disjointed. The book was actually pretty poorly written I thought and I haven’t loved a Dickinson lyric since 2010. I hope the overall quality is higher on this album but the single is definitely tempering my expectations.

All said though the song is OK. If the entire album is like that it will be a solid middle tier Bruce Dickinson album. I’ll just be looking forward to finally getting some more solo work from him.

You are probably right and they seem to be relying on pre-orders more than anything else. Checked a second HMV store today (this time in Bath), and Bruce’s single was nowhere to be seen.

Sounds about right. Maybe they are learning from recent Maiden mistakes and not pressing any more than they know they will sell.

 

[Vaenyr]

I hate to skip over the always more interesting celebrity gossip, but there was some music discussion I wanted to weigh in on:

Imo the classical comparison doesn’t work at all. The biggest difference is that for any pre-20th century works, the composer wasn’t around to oversee/conduct recordings. There are a lot of discrepancies over style, tempo, and other performance elements that account for differences in recordings. In rock music, the composer also makes the recording and is usually able to make their own creative decisions. The version of Senjutsu that we have is the definitive recording as the artist intended, whether we like it or not. It’s part of why I don’t like those fan “remixes” (which they’re usually not) and edits that come along every time something Maiden related comes out. Not only do they usually sound terrible, but I am also just not interested in hearing some random on the internet’s vision of what a Maiden song should be when I can just hear Maiden’s vision. With classical music, the variations in recorded performances are all working to actualize what the performers believe to be the composer’s intentions.

I agree though that performance is important. A lot of what I miss in Ragnarok (and TOS) is that band interplay, the drums and guitars just feel kinda plain.

Yeah, I can admit that the comparison isn't perfect. Your points are definitely valid. It was more so to stress that the same piece of music can have various interpretations or recordings; to show that despite it being the same music people have their favorites. I suppose the classical comparison is closer to discussing different recordings from live albums than talking about studio albums.
Fully agreed with your point about fan mixes though. I have my grievances with a bunch of Maiden productions, but the fan mixes usually go over the top and manage to ruin the mix in other ways.

I’ve noticed a bit of a change in lyrical style on the last couple Maiden albums that also extend to this new track. I remember some incorrect information came out about Adrian Smith writing lyrics for Writing on the Wall and a lot of people bought into it. It seemed possible largely because the lyric writing on that song was much more rough around the edges and less poetic than the Bruce we’ve been used to (as has been pointed out in this thread). Imo pretty much all of Bruce’s lyrics on the last two albums have had that quality. Very little ambiguity in the lines and much less use of metaphor or word play even if you just compare to stuff like Starblind and El Dorado.

The one exception here is If Eternity Should Fail. I will be really curious to see what the stylistic spread is considering how far back some of the material goes. Ragnarok lyrically very much feels like it fits with Bruce’s output this last decade, but if there are any pre-2014 lyrics in there maybe we’ll get some songs with less clunky writing. I’m not sure what the deal is, I noticed it in his book as well, his writing is pretty plain and sometimes a little disjointed. The book was actually pretty poorly written I thought and I haven’t loved a Dickinson lyric since 2010. I hope the overall quality is higher on this album but the single is definitely tempering my expectations.

Great points and I can agree with your observations. Bruce has written some of my favorite Maiden lyrics and those tend to be his more poetic work. His current output and workflow seems to be shying away from that and I'm not sure if there's a conscious effort or if it's simply how he prefers to write nowadays. Curious to see how the rest of the album will turn out.

 

[Mosh]

Great points and I can agree with your observations. Bruce has written some of my favorite Maiden lyrics and those tend to be his more poetic work. His current output and workflow seems to be shying away from that and I'm not sure if there's a conscious effort or if it's simply how he prefers to write nowadays. Curious to see how the rest of the album will turn out.

It has to be a conscious effort. I think some of it is just getting on the level he perceives his audience to be at. When I went to Bruce's speaking tour, I was pretty surprised at how (for lack of a better word) low brow the whole thing was. I don't have a problem with low brow, but it was quite the contrast from the "intellectual" Bruce Dickinson that has been marketed to us for years. Now there was never anything remotely intellectual about Iron Maiden or Bruce Dickinson, but it is strange to see the curtain pulled back the way it has been recently. There are less illusions in the music as well now.

 

[redandtheblack92]

So was just thinking about this that shouldn’t the title actually be Aftermath of Ragnarok rather than Afterglow. Well Bruce’s idea of the song is what would happen after all the chaos was done and the sun rising again. Feels more like the after effects (aftermath) rather than the afterglow (temporary, residual glow post the occurrence of something). Afterglow would make it sound like the residue that remained post the chaos. Not exactly a positive connotation.

 

[Jer]

Well Bruce’s idea of the song is what would happen after all the chaos was done and the sun rising again. Feels more like the after effects (aftermath) rather than the afterglow (temporary, residual glow post the occurrence of something). Afterglow would make it sound like the residue that remained post the chaos.

It’s right there in the lyrics — “afterglow of Ragnarok becomes the shadow of the dawn, from the night the sun will rise again”. The afterglow of destruction metaphorically becomes the dawn of something new, one’s dying light bleeding into the birthing light of the next.

 

[Kalata]

I feel like Necropolis should’ve been the name of the fleshy guy with red eyes. That name is much more suitable for him than for the main character

I thought that in Maiden's version, at the end of the song, Necropolis is a bad guy..

I agree. And yes, I think Bruce has changed the story (the role of some characters) a bit since the song became a Maiden one. The album is also without a title track.

I agree though that performance is important. A lot of what I miss in Ragnarok (and TOS) is that band interplay, the drums and guitars just feel kinda plain.

I’ve noticed a bit of a change in lyrical style on the last couple Maiden albums that also extend to this new track. I remember some incorrect information came out about Adrian Smith writing lyrics for Writing on the Wall and a lot of people bought into it. It seemed possible largely because the lyric writing on that song was much more rough around the edges and less poetic than the Bruce we’ve been used to (as has been pointed out in this thread). Imo pretty much all of Bruce’s lyrics on the last two albums have had that quality. Very little ambiguity in the lines and much less use of metaphor or word play even if you just compare to stuff like Starblind and El Dorado.

The one exception here is If Eternity Should Fail. I will be really curious to see what the stylistic spread is considering how far back some of the material goes. Ragnarok lyrically very much feels like it fits with Bruce’s output this last decade, but if there are any pre-2014 lyrics in there maybe we’ll get some songs with less clunky writing. I hope the overall quality is higher on this album but the single is definitely tempering my expectations.

I’ll just be looking forward to finally getting some more solo work from him.

I'm the opposite. I don't think TOS needs a 2nd guitar and the drumming is great. Also, the album contains some of my favorite lyrics from Bruce. I like the ones in Ragnarok too. I want a mix of both from Bruce in an album - poetic and rough around the edges. A good mix though. I like his style, but I think I like Steve's style better. I'm sure the new album will have ''lots of'' interesting lyrics. The upcoming 2nd single is an idea Bruce has had since 2008, so maybe its lyrics are more or less from then. While other songs are: Sonata is from 1997, Face In The Mirror is from 2022.

I believe in the overall quality of the album and - spot on about your last comment. That's why I wanted more than 10 songs for this album. I am very grateful for every Maiden and Bruce album. Every single one of them.

 

[Azas]

I agree. And yes, I think Bruce has changed the story (the role of some characters) a bit since the song became a Maiden one. The album is also without a title track.

Eternity has Failed may be a hidden title track. We'll know for sure in March.