GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
With all due respect, it sounds like more self-pitying from Blaze.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
The guys at the back with their arms folded sound more like "play classics" Maiden fans, than grunge fans who thought they were dinosaurs. Why would anyone go to a gig of a band they considered dinosaurs in the first place?
You hit the nail right on the head mate.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
The grunge scene is generally considered to have died with Cobain, with the exception of a handful of bands that transcend it, but that’s because they created memorable music post-grunge and not because the media still liked them. Good article but 1996 is a bit late for the grunge era, music had moved on. I do think grunge had a lot to do with old school metal losing its place in the spotlight, but then again a band like Metallica was really getting widespread attention during this time, so sometimes it just depended on what the bands were doing themselves.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
I think you can always use one of this to relive the joys (especially live) of that particular Maiden era.
Have fun!
For what is worth, I did my bit supporting the band during the 90s and really enjoyed the show I saw in 1996 (even with Blaze’s limitations). Virtual XI was the sound of a band hitting rock bottom though and grunge had nothing to do with it.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Music hardly moved on in 1996. Some bands quit but they left an imprint. Metal in the USA did not really have its comeback before 2000.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
The popular style at that time was one with less guitar solos, instrumental parts, less typical metal characteristics. Many bands jumped that bandwagon.
Cobain died in 1994 but the (popularity of) music did not suddenly change back to how it was before the early nineties.
That took at least 5 years or so.
Grunge was also an influence on later genres such as post-grunge (such as Creed and Nickelback) and nu metal (such as Korn, Limp Bizkit, and Slipknot).
EDIT:
1991–1997: Mainstream success
en.wikipedia.org
Still, after 1997 there was this:
en.wikipedia.org
Following the end of the original grunge movement, post-grunge increased in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s with newer bands such as Creed, Nickelback, 3 Doors Down and Puddle of Mudd. Other post-grunge bands include Foo Fighters, Staind and Matchbox Twenty. These post-grunge artists were criticized for their commercialized sound as well as their "worldview built around the comforts of community and romantic relationships", as opposed to grunge's lyrical exploration of "troubling issues such as suicide, societal hypocrisy and drug addiction." Adam Steininger criticized post-grunge bands' "diluted ditties filled with watered-down lyrics, all seemingly revolving around suffering through romance." Criticizing many bands that have been described as post-grunge, Steininger criticized Candlebox for their "pop-filled" sound, focus on "love lyrics, and writing songs without "versatility and creativity; Three Days Grace for their "diluted" and "radio-friendly music"; 3 Doors Down for focusing on "... snagging hit singles instead of creating quality albums"; Finger Eleven for going in a "pop rock" direction; Bush's "random phrasings of nonsense"; Live's "pseudo pop poetry" that "strangled the essence of grunge", Puddle of Mudd's "watered down post-grunge sound"; Lifehouse, for tearing "... down ... grunge's sound and groundbreaking structure to appeal more to the masses"; and Nickelback, which he calls the "featherweight ... punching bags of post-grunge" whose music is "dull as dishwater".
= = = =
People could say: that's not Grunge, but that does not make a difference for classic bands in such surroundings.
Cobain died in 1994 but the (popularity of) music did not suddenly change back to how it was before the early nineties.
That took at least 5 years or so.
Grunge was also an influence on later genres such as post-grunge (such as Creed and Nickelback) and nu metal (such as Korn, Limp Bizkit, and Slipknot).
EDIT:
1991–1997: Mainstream success
Grunge - Wikipedia
Still, after 1997 there was this:
Grunge - Wikipedia
Following the end of the original grunge movement, post-grunge increased in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s with newer bands such as Creed, Nickelback, 3 Doors Down and Puddle of Mudd. Other post-grunge bands include Foo Fighters, Staind and Matchbox Twenty. These post-grunge artists were criticized for their commercialized sound as well as their "worldview built around the comforts of community and romantic relationships", as opposed to grunge's lyrical exploration of "troubling issues such as suicide, societal hypocrisy and drug addiction." Adam Steininger criticized post-grunge bands' "diluted ditties filled with watered-down lyrics, all seemingly revolving around suffering through romance." Criticizing many bands that have been described as post-grunge, Steininger criticized Candlebox for their "pop-filled" sound, focus on "love lyrics, and writing songs without "versatility and creativity; Three Days Grace for their "diluted" and "radio-friendly music"; 3 Doors Down for focusing on "... snagging hit singles instead of creating quality albums"; Finger Eleven for going in a "pop rock" direction; Bush's "random phrasings of nonsense"; Live's "pseudo pop poetry" that "strangled the essence of grunge", Puddle of Mudd's "watered down post-grunge sound"; Lifehouse, for tearing "... down ... grunge's sound and groundbreaking structure to appeal more to the masses"; and Nickelback, which he calls the "featherweight ... punching bags of post-grunge" whose music is "dull as dishwater".
= = = =
People could say: that's not Grunge, but that does not make a difference for classic bands in such surroundings.
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D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
The influence of nu-metal is far more downplayed because some bands like Korn are playing from both metal and grunge's books...and this band has also been influential on newer metal acts. The no-solos shit crept in from the nu-metal world, not directly from grunge. Smells like teen spirit the most overplayed overpolished commercial grunge song has a solo.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Fans of Grunge bands, nu metal bands were usually not into bands like Maiden. A very different feel. I know some out here can appreciate Grunge bands. I liked some, had a Nirvana ticket even. But I never went away from Maiden (classic metal) because I got into that around the same time, or even a little earlier. I was not dependent of (American) press or radio. I was lucky to know some friends who had Maiden in their collection.
srfc
Ancient Mariner
I was the same, grunge was happening at the same time I was getting into music, so I either had or was familiar with all the big albums before I decided it wasn't for me. I wouldn't have any interest in listening to it now, but I'm a bit more open minded towards it than Nu-Metal, which I think has nothing going for it. Some bands on that Download 2003 bill were just atrocities, One Minute Silence for instance, and I remember them mocking Maiden in the single reviews in Kerrang.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Grunge definitely hurt metal big time, no doubt about that. By extension, its popularity paved the way for genres still “hurting” classic metal in ‘96. It’s just not grunge itself that was hurting metal then. Again, Cobain’s death was like a guillotine cutting off the head of grunge. It didn’t end obviously, but as far as mainstream success goes it didn’t last much longer.
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
I disagree. I think if Adrian stayed after 7th Son and Bruce after Fear and they continued to release albums that were just as amazing as Number through 7th, they would have stayed just as huge and all of their fans would have continued to support them. Also, Blaze wasn't very well accepted as a replacement for Bruce."When I was in Maiden, we were at war with grunge, man," he said (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET). "Grunge was trying to kill us. The U.K. press, they thought the sun shone out of various bands' bottoms, and they wanted Maiden to die. We went into the heartland of death — we played Seattle at the height of grunge, man, and it was one of the most awful gigs I've ever done. There were these people looking at us like we were some kind of dinosaur, and they were going, 'Why aren't they dead yet?' And then you've got a few rows at the front going, 'Maiden! Yes!' It's just unbelievable. And that's the war that we had with [1995's] 'The X Factor' and [1998's] 'Virtual XI'. We were fighting for the very existence of real heavy metal. And where are they now? Metal is forever, 'cause it's in the heart of fans. [..]"
BLAZE BAYLEY: 'When I Was In IRON MAIDEN, We Were At War With Grunge'
British heavy metal vocalist Blaze Bayley, who fronted IRON MAIDEN more than 20 years ago, spoke to the Crowcast about how the rise of grunge in the early 1990s forced most hard rock bands off the radio and MTV, with album and tour sales plummeting. "When I was in MAIDEN, we were at war with...www.blabbermouth.net
Hear it from the man who was in the middle of it:
listen here:
start around 48.50: link
@Zare
@karljant
@Mosh
@Night Prowler
@Travis The Dragon
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Grunge didn't hurt Maiden. Weak albums and Blaze did.
So a few things here. Not sure why I was tagged, although I am sure I’ve said on here before that Maiden was probably doomed in the 90s in America with or without Blaze. There are signs of a decline as early as 1988, with Maiden playing smaller venues and doing smaller scale tours in North America. The music landscape was changing and Maiden was never going to survive that unless they went the Metallica route and changed their image and sound.
The problem with saying that Grunge died with Kurt Cobain, besides being inaccurate, is that grunge was an underground movement that pretty much just morphed into mainstream rock music by the time Nevermind came out. A “trve” grunge fan would probably just tell you that Grunge died when nirvana got signed. So while the grunge movement itself was short lived, the changing tide on rock music was there to stay.
As far as nu metal and the classic metal revival of the 80s go, it’s definitely true that those sorts of things (along with Ozzfest) really helped rejuvenate old school Metal in America, it took Maiden at least a decade to get back to where they are now. Speaking from personal experience, I was a kid when nu metal was everything, Maiden really weren’t cool around my age group until I got into High School. Even among nu metal fans, Maiden weren’t even seen as a metal band but just an “old hard rock” band.
The problem with saying that Grunge died with Kurt Cobain, besides being inaccurate, is that grunge was an underground movement that pretty much just morphed into mainstream rock music by the time Nevermind came out. A “trve” grunge fan would probably just tell you that Grunge died when nirvana got signed. So while the grunge movement itself was short lived, the changing tide on rock music was there to stay.
As far as nu metal and the classic metal revival of the 80s go, it’s definitely true that those sorts of things (along with Ozzfest) really helped rejuvenate old school Metal in America, it took Maiden at least a decade to get back to where they are now. Speaking from personal experience, I was a kid when nu metal was everything, Maiden really weren’t cool around my age group until I got into High School. Even among nu metal fans, Maiden weren’t even seen as a metal band but just an “old hard rock” band.
Also for Blaze’s comments, yea he’s probably right to a certain degree that Maiden wasn’t going to survive through the 90s no matter what, but a major lineup change at that juncture certainly accelerated things. Plenty of Maiden fans in America who weren’t into grunge either probably also jumped ship because of that.
And I don’t think we give enough credit to the bad production on those 90s albums. Say what you will about modern Maiden production, but they sound pretty industry standard for a legacy act like Maiden. The 90s albums sound very amateurish. Especially compared to some of the state of the art recordings that were being made during the 90s. Some of the best sounding rock albums of all time were made then. Meanwhile Maiden was pumping out productions that would’ve been considered garbage even 30 years ago.
And I don’t think we give enough credit to the bad production on those 90s albums. Say what you will about modern Maiden production, but they sound pretty industry standard for a legacy act like Maiden. The 90s albums sound very amateurish. Especially compared to some of the state of the art recordings that were being made during the 90s. Some of the best sounding rock albums of all time were made then. Meanwhile Maiden was pumping out productions that would’ve been considered garbage even 30 years ago.
TheTalisman
Ancient Mariner
If you consider the amount of metal and hard rock artists that couldn't get a major label deal during the 90's and instead were signed to independent label, CMC International, for the U.S Market - is eventually a clear sign of the state of the music industry back then, right?
"CMC International was an American independent record label founded by Bill Cain and Tom Lipsky in 1991, focused mainly on classic rock, and classic heavy metal. The label was the haven of many hard rock, arena rock, glam metal and AOR artists in the period when all the majors were investing all their financial efforts on grunge and alternative rock acts.[1
Just a few names:
Accept
Bruce Dickinson (Skunkworks to Chemical Wedding).
Deep Purple
Dokken
Iron Maiden (For The X Factor and Virtual XI).
Judas Priest
Yngwie Malmsteen
W.A.S.P
en.wikipedia.org
All of these were million selling acts just a few years earlier. There was a lot more happening than just Blaze not being popular, causing the decline.
Then in 1999, Iron Maiden started recording Brave New World without a record deal at all for the U.S Market - in the process hiring a few A&R guys to give input on song writing, even working with a good photographer to get a "new image", and a overall product that was "signeable" for a major label in the U.S at the time?
Eventually, Columbia gave them a chance - after the album was finished, and it worked out well. But to even get a few airings of the "The Wicker Man" on U.S mainstream rock radio was a real accomplishment initally. That's just how things were back then.
"CMC International was an American independent record label founded by Bill Cain and Tom Lipsky in 1991, focused mainly on classic rock, and classic heavy metal. The label was the haven of many hard rock, arena rock, glam metal and AOR artists in the period when all the majors were investing all their financial efforts on grunge and alternative rock acts.[1
Just a few names:
Accept
Bruce Dickinson (Skunkworks to Chemical Wedding).
Deep Purple
Dokken
Iron Maiden (For The X Factor and Virtual XI).
Judas Priest
Yngwie Malmsteen
W.A.S.P
CMC International - Wikipedia
All of these were million selling acts just a few years earlier. There was a lot more happening than just Blaze not being popular, causing the decline.
Then in 1999, Iron Maiden started recording Brave New World without a record deal at all for the U.S Market - in the process hiring a few A&R guys to give input on song writing, even working with a good photographer to get a "new image", and a overall product that was "signeable" for a major label in the U.S at the time?
Eventually, Columbia gave them a chance - after the album was finished, and it worked out well. But to even get a few airings of the "The Wicker Man" on U.S mainstream rock radio was a real accomplishment initally. That's just how things were back then.
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